P45 for Smith and Shakespeare tonight please

[Indy 3,313]

Just now, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Thankyou, and the same to your family members. 

I've had close family go through it too, my grandad fought it for years, my uncle also...

(I'm 29 so these two incidents of seeing them battle it aswell were fairly recent, not something I saw years and years ago)

💚💛

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

If the World Cup break was tomorrow, then I'd get rid. But with five games in three weeks and such a quick turnaround between games, I'd give him these five. But we'd have to see a big upturn in performances as well as results in these three weeks to keep him beyond that. 

Surely you want the new manager in before that break though, rather than to spend that break trying to recruit somebody, because the vast majority of Championship players aren't going to the World Cup, and I presume will still be expecting to turn up to training for the majority of that break, save for perhaps a goodwill few days or week (e.g. "right you've got a week off lads, go see your families, don't go silly on the booze". 

I'd be tempted to appoint Alan Neilson as caretaker manager (U21 manager, unbeaten this season, was caretaker at Luton on 3 occasions when he worked for them). Look at what Gary O'Neil is doing as caretaker at Bournemouth, immediate relief from toxic environment, wasn't afraid to change up the XI for his first game.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

45 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

To be replaced by..

A thermos flask?.....

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,840]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Surely you want the new manager in before that break though, rather than to spend that break trying to recruit somebody, because the vast majority of Championship players aren't going to the World Cup, and I presume will still be expecting to turn up to training for the majority of that break, save for perhaps a goodwill few days or week (e.g. "right you've got a week off lads, go see your families, don't go silly on the booze". 

I'd be tempted to appoint Alan Neilson as caretaker manager (U21 manager, unbeaten this season, was caretaker at Luton on 3 occasions when he worked for them). Look at what Gary O'Neil is doing as caretaker at Bournemouth, immediate relief from toxic environment, wasn't afraid to change up the XI for his first game.

There's a four-week break, and with this season starting a bit early and ending late, I imagine the players will have two weeks off. If the feelers are put out a week before and it's known that Smith is a dead man walking, then two weeks to get the new man in before training restarts should be enough. 

As long as the new man gets a full fortnight with the players, that should be enough. 

Assuming Smith doesn't go and get four wins in the next five, of course...

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Assuming Smith doesn't go and get four wins in the next five, of course...

I think that's a safe assumption.

[canarydan23 4,060]

58 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

To be replaced by..

Mark Robins, Carlos Corberan, Gary O'Neil, Kjetil Knutsen, Nathan Jones, Russell Martin, Kieran McKenna, Steven Schumacher, Paul Warne, Craig Bellamy, Marcelo Bielsa.

And that's just off the top of my ignorant head.

Edited October 18, 2022 by canarydan23

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,444]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Mark Robins, Carlos Corberan, Gary O'Neil, Kjetil Knutsen, Nathan Jones, Russell Martin, Kieran McKenna, Steven Schumacher, Paul Warne, Craig Bellamy, Marcelo Bielsa.

And that's just off the top of my ignorant head.

Is McKenna the Binners coach? Now that would be funny 😁 

[yellowrider120 777]

16 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Mark Robins, Carlos Corberan, Gary O'Neil, Kjetil Knutsen, Nathan Jones, Russell Martin, Kieran McKenna, Steven Schumacher, Paul Warne, Craig Bellamy, Marcelo Bielsa.

And that's just off the top of my ignorant head.

Not a cat in hells chance of him coming here. Why would he?

[canarydan23 4,060]

Just now, yellowrider120 said:

Not a cat in hells chance of him coming here. Why would he?

Because we're a bigger club than Ipswich.

Does that need saying to anyone who isn't a binner?

[Helsinki canary 242]

52 minutes ago, Indy said:

Yep I got that tonight no fight at all. But then all he did was stand there hands in pockets!

But how on earth could he hold his mug of tea with his hands in his pockets? Was it hanging round his neck?  Reckon he might of accidentally spilt some tonight when he got all worked up with the match officials

[hogesar 9,722]

44 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I'm one who will always give the coach as long as possible before giving them the boot, but my patience is starting to wear thin. Even when we were winning games with average performances, I thought the performances would come good with the quality available to us, but it seems to be getting worse. 

If the World Cup break was tomorrow, then I'd get rid. But with five games in three weeks and such a quick turnaround between games, I'd give him these five. But we'd have to see a big upturn in performances as well as results in these three weeks to keep him beyond that. 

So many games in such quick succession. We start playing well and win 3 of the 5 with a couple draws and suddenly things look very different.

Conversely if performances continue to regress rather than progress even with players coming back from injury then its 15 points we are potentially throwing away.

As I said in another thread the problem for Smith is he has no credit in the bank for most Norwich fans, the wiggle room for bad results is so limited.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,840]

11 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Not a cat in hells chance of him coming here. Why would he?

Completely objectively, and ignoring the Norwich/Ipswich element, he'd be joining one of the bigger clubs in the Championship who will/should be challenging for promotion from one of the bigger clubs in League One who will/should be challenging for promotion.

And it would be bloody hilarious (as long as he does well).

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,840]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

So many games in such quick succession. We start playing well and win 3 of the 5 with a couple draws and suddenly things look very different.

Conversely if performances continue to regress rather than progress even with players coming back from injury then its 15 points we are potentially throwing away.

As I said in another thread the problem for Smith is he has no credit in the bank for most Norwich fans, the wiggle room for bad results is so limited.

I'd say, if we give him these five, three wins is the minimum requirement. Three wins and much improved performances would see him stay, three wins and the same performances probably not.

[paddycanary 539]

14 minutes ago, Helsinki canary said:

But how on earth could he hold his mug of tea with his hands in his pockets? Was it hanging round his neck?  Reckon he might of accidentally spilt some tonight when he got all worked up with the match officials

Could you get a couple of mugs in here:

[Captain Holt 522]

I've wanted him out since long before the end of last season. We are playing the same game over and over despite a different formation every week with no idea what we're trying to achieve. The unbeaten run is such an indictment of how goddamn awful this league is. Sack him now, get a young manager in who has the desire to build a project and I still think we'll get promoted.

[Cityfc2 4]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

9 unbeaten before that, and you were still f**king moaning. That's why I'm seriously not interested in any of your stupid opinions. Grow up. 

And we were lucky lucky lucky 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

Is everyone who wants Smith out's opinion stupid? I think you'll find your in an ever-shrinking minority if you think he's the right man for the job.

The thing is as well, I don't think people really dislike Dean Smith as a person or wish him any ill-will. Other than taking the p*ss out of him for having a cup of tea and looking a bit gormless, there's little by way of hatred or anything, which makes littleyellowbirdies vitriol and anger towards other fans today look and feel a bit odd.

Feels a bit different from some other past sackings, where the fanbase got really toxic against the individual.

I just think it all feels a bit "meh" and always has. As we agreed on the other day, there's never been any bond or chemisty, and it feels mutual, and I think that has rubbed off on the players as well.

It just isn't working, for whatever reason. Nobody would discount the possibility that he'll go and do a decent job somewhere else, his CV isn't terrible, in fact was given credit in the media for getting Brentford playing some nice football.

For whatever reason This Club + This Manager + This Group of Players + Our Fans = the dynamic just hasn't ever clicked, the algorithm isn't right. And of those four factors we can only really change the manager in the short to medium term, its not like we can give him the opportunity to overhaul the squad, this is the group we have and what he needs to work with, and its just not working.

The vast majority are just being pragmatic. We are underperforming, managers job to get the players performing, he isn't. There are more complex factors at play, like arguments about the quality of our recruitment & whether our ownership structure belongs in the 1990s, but nobody can deny that huge talents like AO and Max Aarons are going backwards, and that Tim Krul is a shadow of his former self, and that Pukki doesn't look like he's enjoying playing for Dean Smith....

.... and as terrible as our recruitment has been over the past couple of years, nobody was ever going to expect us to be able to upgrade Pukki, Aarons, or Krul, and everybody thought AO looked like a player who could surpass Ben Godfrey levels of quality. If he can't get a tune out of those four players in particular, as a starting point, then he's failing. Then there is Nunez, never seen a player lose confidence so rapidly in my years of watching football.

[corbs 147]

Enjoyed that Bellamy interview, an inexperienced number 2, but certainly seemed very positive about his club, and I loved the bit where he says Vince and him ask the canteen staff and Kit guys about team selection. 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

7 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

The thing is as well, I don't think people really dislike Dean Smith as a person or wish him any ill-will. Other than taking the p*ss out of him for having a cup of tea and looking a bit gormless, there's little by way of hatred or anything, which makes littleyellowbirdies vitriol and anger towards other fans today look and feel a bit odd.

Feels a bit different from some other past sackings, where the fanbase got really toxic against the individual.

I just think it all feels a bit "meh" and always has. As we agreed on the other day, there's never been any bond or chemisty, and it feels mutual, and I think that has rubbed off on the players as well.

It just isn't working, for whatever reason. Nobody would discount the possibility that he'll go and do a decent job somewhere else, his CV isn't terrible, in fact was given credit in the media for getting Brentford playing some nice football.

For whatever reason This Club + This Manager + This Group of Players + Our Fans = the dynamic just hasn't ever clicked, the algorithm isn't right. And of those four factors we can only really change the manager in the short to medium term, its not like we can give him the opportunity to overhaul the squad, this is the group we have and what he needs to work with, and its just not working.

The vast majority are just being pragmatic. We are underperforming, managers job to get the players performing, he isn't. There are more complex factors at play, like arguments about the quality of our recruitment & whether our ownership structure belongs in the 1990s, but nobody can deny that huge talents like AO and Max Aarons are going backwards, and that Tim Krul is a shadow of his former self, and that Pukki doesn't look like he's enjoying playing for Dean Smith....

.... and as terrible as our recruitment has been over the past couple of years, nobody was ever going to expect us to be able to upgrade Pukki, Aarons, or Krul, and everybody thought AO looked like a player who could surpass Ben Godfrey levels of quality. If he can't get a tune out of those four players in particular, as a starting point, then he's failing. Then there is Nunez, never seen a player lose confidence so rapidly in my years of watching football.

It’s interesting though that Brentford really kicked on after he left. On reflection he had them performing quite well but actually not quite hitting the heights they were capable of. 

[Mr Apples 1,325]

Neil Lennon has just become available again... 🤭🤣

Apples

[Indy 3,313]

50 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

It’s interesting though that Brentford really kicked on after he left. On reflection he had them performing quite well but actually not quite hitting the heights they were capable of. 

It does amaze me that people use his two seasons at Brentford as a reason for optimism as you point out just how Brentford kicked on.

There’s a severe disconnect between a large section of the fans and club at present, Smith is directly in the line of sight and the aim of the frustration.

But looking at the financial challenges of losing 23 million, reduced revenue of the upcoming season and key players out of contract at the end of this season, makes you question without promotion what this squad will look like next summer?

I believe Pukki, Cantwell, Dowell, McLean, Byram, Hernandez, Sinani and Hugill are all out of contract this summer, I’m not sure we’ll be signing many of them back up as we’re going to have bigger wages back too in Tzolis, Rashiica.

I’m sure those in power are making plans for no promotion, but it certainly looks we might have a new look Norwich squad come 2023 season kick off!

Edited October 19, 2022 by Indy

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

Wow @littleyellowbirdie total pathetic meltdown. Saw this coming last week when I put you in your place for throwing abuse because people didn't agree with your opinions

true foul little colours being shown in the last 24 hrs.

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

As for Smith I've pinned my colours on the mast months ago.

The guy does not fit the club and is not a good fit for us, he was a knee jerk appointment and it was apparent that he wasn't up to it when we went down.

Webber should have put a clause in the contract regarding relegation but then again smith would have been an idiot to accept that. After lampard turned us down I think Webber panicked.

Smith should have been fired the second we were mathematically relegated.

I honestly don't like being proven right over Smith and his tenure but it has not worked.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Wow @littleyellowbirdie total pathetic meltdown. Saw this coming last week when I put you in your place for throwing abuse because people didn't agree with your opinions

true foul little colours being shown in the last 24 hrs.

I've got a feeling he may have been given a bit of time in the sin bin.

Well deserved if so.

[yellowrider120 777]

11 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Because we're a bigger club than Ipswich.

Does that need saying to anyone who isn't a binner?

Currently, I would suspect that McKenna might well view remaining where he is and having a reasonable chance of promotion and with home attendances higher than Carrow Road, a better bet than moving up the road and inheriting a team on the slide whose early season league position most of us feared was not sustainable.  

[BurwellCanary 216]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

It does amaze me that people use his two seasons at Brentford as a reason for optimism as you point out just how Brentford kicked on.

There’s a severe disconnect between a large section of the fans and club at present, Smith is directly in the line of sight and the aim of the frustration.

But looking at the financial challenges of losing 23 million, reduced revenue of the upcoming season and key players out of contract at the end of this season, makes you question without promotion what this squad will look like next summer?

I believe Pukki, Cantwell, Dowell, McLean, Byram, Hernandez, Sinani and Hugill are all out of contract this summer, I’m not sure we’ll be signing many of them back up as we’re going to have bigger wages back too in Tzolis, Rashiica.

I’m sure those in power are making plans for no promotion, but it certainly looks we might have a new look Norwich squad come 2023 season kick off!

If those in power are making plans for no promotion - then Smith and Players are only accountable for avoiding relegation, Smith goes at end of contract at no cost, rebuild then.

I would like to see him go but if the plan is as you suggest he's not really failing - just keeping us in limbo

[king canary 7,654]

10 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

The thing is as well, I don't think people really dislike Dean Smith as a person or wish him any ill-will. Other than taking the p*ss out of him for having a cup of tea and looking a bit gormless, there's little by way of hatred or anything, which makes littleyellowbirdies vitriol and anger towards other fans today look and feel a bit odd.

There has definitley been some stuff that has been weirdly personal about Smith- one of the reasons I was so fierce in defending him early this season is a number of the criticism levelled at him were just basically made up or based on weird observations about what he looks like on the touchline.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,361]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

.

But looking at the financial challenges of losing 23 million, reduced revenue of the upcoming season and key players out of contract at the end of this season, makes you question without promotion what this squad will look like next summer?

 

Never know, might be a blessing in disguise, overhaul the players who have been scarred by relegations. 

Bring in lower league players who are starving hungry for a chance at a decent sized club with ambitions (what are those again) of staying in the PL 

Ala Lambert's team, and Farkes first promotion team to an extent.

 

[king canary 7,654]

Just now, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Never know, might be a blessing in disguise, overhaul the players who have been scarred by relegations. 

Bring in lower league players who are starving hungry for a chance at a decent sized club with ambitions (what are those again) of staying in the PL 

Ala Lambert's team, and Farkes first promotion team to an extent.

 

I do think the team could do with a reset if we stay down so actually I'm not too concerned about players like McLean and Cantwell moving on and even Pukki is looking like someone we'd be better off letting leave.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,361]

Just now, king canary said:

I do think the team could do with a reset if we stay down so actually I'm not too concerned about players like McLean and Cantwell moving on and even Pukki is looking like someone we'd be better off letting leave.

Precisely. I wouldn't be too sad about seeing a fair few of players leave.