Grant Hanley- Better than van Dijk?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,720]

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

If only football was played on paper hey. 

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

So Grant Hanley is good in the air and the ground, Rueben Dias **** at both..... This clearly needs filing in the nearest bin 😂

[Haus 259]

Just now, Ken Hairy said:

So Grant Hanley is good in the air and the ground, Rueben Dias **** at both..... This clearly needs filing in the nearest bin 😂

That chart says good in the air, average on the ground.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

Interesting chart. I think Hanley is one of those players you don't realise how much you'd miss until he goes. 

[Danke bitte 965]

3 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Interesting chart. I think Hanley is one of those players you don't realise how much you'd miss until he goes. 

Bit like Cambridgeshire’s threads 😉

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

If Lascelles is that dominant in the air and shoite on the ground, does that mean he should be nicknamed Douglas Bader?

[jaberry2 550]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

I thought the sentence bottom left summarised Grant Hanley well. 

[hogesar 9,674]

He's a very good defender. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

So regardless of van Dijk, the graph seems to show Hanley as being one of the best defenders in the league and Gibson as being around average.

Now, I'm a big fan of Hanley and think he was one of only two players last season that came out with genuine credit (Pukki being the other, obviously), however that chart is clearly misleading for both Hanley and Gibson.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

15 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

So regardless of van Dijk, the graph seems to show Hanley as being one of the best defenders in the league and Gibson as being around average.

Now, I'm a big fan of Hanley and think he was one of only two players last season that came out with genuine credit (Pukki being the other, obviously), however that chart is clearly misleading for both Hanley and Gibson.

To be fair, I would say that's a pretty damning indictment of certainly our midfield, and to a lesser extent, our full-backs.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,138]

Big fan of Hanley as well but it ignores positioning to be able to engage in those duels as well as the more clever nuances of defending that would eliminate the need to tackle or challenge someone in the air in the first place. Saying that though with a better midfield in front of them and more experienced full backs Hanley and Gibson are good enough to play together in the bottom half of the PL. So long as Omobamidele can be trusted to stay fit it would be the last place I'd look to strengthen this summer, aside from Gibson getting out jumped a couple of times or playing a silly pass I don't remember many instances of goals resulting from either of those two directly especially in Hanleys case. 

[First Wazzock 902]

That chart is cack

Didn't see Hanley falls over a lot and wins freekicks, which shouldn't be given

Gibson - about as effective a a damp lettuce leaf, Burnley mugged us

[CrankyCanary 32]

11 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

If this is a Question then I hope it's rhetorical. Like a keep it in your head and never utter it again kind of rhetorical.

[CrankyCanary 32]

1 hour ago, First Wazzock said:

That chart is cack

Didn't see Hanley falls over a lot and wins freekicks, which shouldn't be given

Gibson - about as effective a a damp lettuce leaf, Burnley mugged us

Oi! Damp Lettuce leaves deserve respect.

[CrankyCanary 32]

11 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Roy of the Rovers better than Santiago Munez, you heard it here first.

[Walcombe canary 69]

Yes, Much Better

[AJ 1,221]

These stats are no doubt skewed because Grant Hanley would have had to compete for a lot more tackles and headers than VVD...

[Badger 2,405]

17 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

So regardless of van Dijk, the graph seems to show Hanley as being one of the best defenders in the league and Gibson as being around average.

Now, I'm a big fan of Hanley and think he was one of only two players last season that came out with genuine credit (Pukki being the other, obviously), however that chart is clearly misleading for both Hanley and Gibson.

"as being one of the best defenders in the league."

It doesn't actually show that - it shows that he is dominant in the air and above average dominance on the ground. There are other facets to being a good defender which are not measured on this graphic - anticipation/ concentration etc.

As with any individual statistic, you need to be aware what it doesn't say as well as what it does. "Overclaiming" on statistics is as bad as ignoring them.

[Badger 2,405]

3 minutes ago, AJ said:

These stats are no doubt skewed because Grant Hanley would have had to compete for a lot more tackles and headers than VVD...

Doesn't make any difference - they are percentages.

(The fact that he has had to make more tackles/ headers actually make the stats more significant.)

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

"as being one of the best defenders in the league."

It doesn't actually show that - it shows that he is dominant in the air and above average dominance on the ground. There are other facets to being a good defender which are not measured on this graphic - anticipation/ concentration etc.

As with any individual statistic, you need to be aware what it doesn't say as well as what it does. "Overclaiming" on statistics is as bad as ignoring them.

Of course, but I disagree with your comment that I was 'overclaiming'. Anyone taking those statistics in isolation without knowing much about the Premier League or football in general would think Grant Hanley was one of the best defenders in the league.

For example, I know very little about American Football. If you were to show me a graph depicting passing stats among quarterbacks and an average player in a poor team ranked highly over a couple of parameters, I'd probably (wrongly) assume he was one of the NFL's best quarterbacks.

[hogesar 9,674]

As always, stats without context blah blah blah.

The fact that all his individual stats are pretty good at Prem level alongside with my own eyes telling me he was comfortably our best defender last season leaves me to think he's probably good enough in a team with other players who are low-prem standard.

[king canary 7,606]

This is a very clear example of why assessing defenders statistically is tougher than other positions. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by king canary

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Of course, but I disagree with your comment that I was 'overclaiming'. Anyone taking those statistics in isolation without knowing much about the Premier League or football in general would think Grant Hanley was one of the best defenders in the league.

For example, I know very little about American Football. If you were to show me a graph depicting passing stats among quarterbacks and an average player in a poor team ranked highly over a couple of parameters, I'd probably (wrongly) assume he was one of the NFL's best quarterbacks.

I take your point, I realise you know it but the basic rule though is that you don't take the statistics "in isolation."

[Midlands Yellow 3,985]

Grant is fine by Norwich standards in the Premier League but that’s about it. He wouldn’t get much game time elsewhere. 

[Crafty Canary 495]

Hanley better than Van Dijk? 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[BobLoz3 492]

I think Hanley has done really well for us over the years. He's our best defender, but I think Omo would have taken that mantle, for me, if he has remained injury free last season. 

Arguably our biggest problem was our powder puff midfield which left gaping holes regularly. When Skipp was playing the screening role our defence looked a lot better as they didn't end up with as many one on one situations. 

[Segura 84]

It may seem strange to say for a team that conceded so many goals last season, but I dont think our defence is actually that bad.

If Hayden can be that illusive dcm weve lacked for so long then we should be fine in that department. 

As for Hanley this isn't the first set of stats I've seen which suggest he can hold his own in the prem. However, he never gets linked with moves to a bigger clubs so they cant be telling the full story.

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

The thing with Hanley is he can be very good and he held that consistency most of the season and was our stand out defender. Our fullbacks were largely poor though and were the reason we conceded so many goals.

Unfortunately for Scotland Hanley didn't finish the season well (eg shambles against Spurs) and carried that form on to the WC play-off.