Webber Out

[Ken Hairy 3,828]

8 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Yes, I believe he deserves another chance. The recruitment last summer was flawed, but any sporting director we have is limited when it comes to building a squad for the Premier League by our very low wage ceiling.

This of course is true, but you have to question £10million on limited funds spent on a kid who's made no impact at all this season, and quite frankly looks like he never will even at a lower level. 

[Jim Smith 2,367]

Certainly the Palace and Southampton gsmes have spectacularly shown how he has failed to recruit the physicality and pace we needed. 
 

Sargevt is supposed to bring the athleticism but even he was repeatedly brushed aside by their players last night. 

[Ken Hairy 3,828]

51 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

Not one player purchased by Webber has been bought with the playing squad in mind. More so for the sell on value. That’s how this once great club now operates!

Trouble is that model will fail sooner or later, £10million on Tzolis for example does anyone seriously think we'll see any of that back? Cantwell is only worth that now, and no guarantee we'll get that anyway as Bournemouth have Russian owners so potential issues further down the line for their money to be used with the current situation. 

Sargent £8million, all depends on next season but I don't see a profit there. 

Rasicha £9 million, again he's shown glimpses but I'm not sure enough for another club to come in a give us a profit there. 

Giannoulis, Gibson.... No profits there

I'm struggling to see who we now have at the club that we'll make the Buendia type profit on. 

[baldy09 163]

18 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Yeah, he can get us out of the Championship (and yes, next season we will walk it again - you read it here first), but boy he has a lot to do to make sure we have more weapons for the EPL the season after.  He hasn't learnt yet!  CDM & goal scored a prerogative, I hear you say!

Dear O me. ( next season we will walk it ) you do make me laugh. you should be on the stage telling jokes etc

[Robert N. LiM 4,747]

19 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

In closing, it’s never nice to be the whipping boys, some of our signings aren’t great and we are going down, which makes me miserable now and then. But I don’t see what other outcome the Webber out crew expect and until they offer some kind of improved exit strategy that’ll be in any way likely to change this clubs long term future for the better, I still need convincing

Good post, though disappointingly little swearing. You need to raise your game.

On Webber, when judging his performance, people need to remember his job is more than recruitment.

 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

19 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Good post, though disappointingly little swearing. You need to raise your game.

On Webber, when judging his performance, people need to remember his job is more than recruitment.

 

All the other rhyming names with canary were taken. Tbf since the arrival of my offspring I’ve got less Sweary. Sounds a bit less satisfying being parroted by a three year old 😂

[hertfordyellow 460]

14 hours ago, City 2nd said:

Not one player purchased by Webber has been bought with the playing squad in mind. More so for the sell on value. That’s how this once great club now operates!

This once great club that was staring down the barrel of administration when he arrived.

[Midlands Yellow 4,165]

29 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

This once great club that was staring down the barrel of administration when he arrived.

Surely not under our wonderful custodians. 

[hertfordyellow 460]

13 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Surely not under our wonderful custodians. 

The very same, but it is the reality he faced

[TheGunnShow 6,195]

23 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

By building sound infrastructure we have a good chance of promotion each time over the next decade. The clubs in good hands.

Exactly this. I understand the concerns about league performance, but I do also think people forget how much we overachieved in going up during Farke's second season, not to mention had poor facilities and financially weren't in great shape either. We were probably about as likely to drop back to League One rather than go up to the Premier - then it all clicked wonderfully in that first Farke Championship-winning season.

If there is a criticism to be had, I'd say we were possibly a bit too over-reliant on Buendia.

[City 2nd 191]

1 hour ago, hertfordyellow said:

This once great club that was staring down the barrel of administration when he arrived.

What has that go to do with it. Read my post!, which refers to ‘purchased players’ bought for the sole reason of selling on! Your ignorance becomes you!

[hertfordyellow 460]

8 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

What has that go to do with it. Read my post!, which refers to ‘purchased players’ bought for the sole reason of selling on! Your ignorance becomes you!

If you can’t see they are linked then I’m not sure you should be accusing others of ignorance.

[Pyro Pete 1,991]

I would keep Webber on for next season in the Championship. He's proven he can assemble a successful squad at that level.

I would give him the push at the end of next season, whether we go back up or not. Illogical as that might sound.

[canarydan23 4,165]

On 25/02/2022 at 23:39, SwearyCanary said:

In closing, it’s never nice to be the whipping boys, some of our signings aren’t great and we are going down, which makes me miserable now and then. But I don’t see what other outcome the Webber out crew expect and until they offer some kind of improved exit strategy that’ll be in any way likely to change this clubs long term future for the better, I still need convincing. 

I'm not a member of the Webber Out crew (though I certainly think of all the parties responsible for our relegation, he is the man who bears the majority of responsibility) but I suspect they expected survival. Otherwise, why sack Farke, a man who is two out or two in his last two attempts at winning the Championship (an achievement I suspect is unparalleled)? If staying up was beyond expectation, then sacking him made no sense. Likewise, why spend the money that we did? Webber communicated to the fans that survival was not beyond expectation both in the summer and in sacking Farke and recruiting Smith.

That two mangers have now attempted and failed to make the squad Webber assembled look remotely close to being a Premier League team makes it abundantly clear where the buck stops.

For me, the two things I have a real hard time getting over is the patently foreseeable issues that Webber has twice now failed to address. Two seasons ago it was absolutely clear that we needed to strengthen at centre-back. We didn't. This summer it was equally clear that we needed to strengthen at CDM. We didn't. You can't blame that on bad luck, that's just either atrocious planning. And if he tried but failed to highlight and recruit the necessary players, then that is exactly that, a failure. And it's Webber's failure.

[canarybubbles 1,982]

Someone pointed out (I think on another post) that Webber's job involves much more than recruitment. Can't we just agree that he has done a wonderful job in terms of the infrastructure at the club and the financial stability, but put a question mark over his recruiting? Farke, Buendia, Pukki and Krul seems an amazing start, but the record since then has not been very impressive. Is there anything that might explain that drop off other than he got lucky (a genuine question, not a veiled way of saying he got lucky). Can he get the magic back or is he a DoF counterpart to Farke and Bielsa who needs to move on?

[Robert N. LiM 4,747]

35 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

Someone pointed out (I think on another post) that Webber's job involves much more than recruitment.

I said that somewhere. 

In terms of the recruitment it is obviously much more challenging to buy Prem-ready players than to buy a stack of potential PL players to play in the Championship and hope that enough of them come off to either be successful in the Prem or fetch a decent fee.

I think it's certainly possible that just as players and coaches have a ceiling, so too could sporting directors. SW may well have reached his, but surely it's possible to criticise his recruitment failures for this season while also saluting his other work. Like Daniel, when he leaves, we should certainly be grateful for the work he's done for the club

 

 

[CowboyCanary 39]

On 25/02/2022 at 15:24, Capt. Pants said:

It's a shockingly poor squad for this level, you only need to look at the quality of our bench and amount we've spent on players who can't even get on it because they are not good enough.

Speaking from a distance with limited access to televised Norwich City matches, my impression is we are hard pressed to compete in the Premier Division.  The disparity in talent levels compared to other teams is alarming.  I have seen two matches on TV this season and it became obvious very quickly we would lose, no matter the effort.  The game has changed drastically since I last went to a game at Carrow Road.  It's purely money now, BIG money and I cannot see continuity in the PD and we are playing with the big boys on a shoestring budget.   I wish the situation were different but do not see a change on the horizon.  The PD is a great league for the rich.

[Jersey Canary 155]

On 25/02/2022 at 23:39, SwearyCanary said:

I’m not going to suggest I am a fanatical supporter of ‘the Webber regime’ but we have to be objective here. 
Financial stability achieved and not at the cost of success in winning promotions playing nice football. 
Did not shirk responsibility last relegation, said to blame him and took us up by keeping a number of assets that could’ve been sold. That was wise and good holding of nerve. 
Did not invest well this summer on reflection for this level, but Rashica looks good and others still have some potential, although not huge premier league potential at this stage clearly. 
Attracts players to a relatively small, rural, lacking much history of success and unfashionable location (although I love it) on ‘low’ wages and without the funds to spend big on outlay. That limits his options immensely without the bottomless pit of investment we know other clubs have. 
Brentford were lauded as being our equivalent financially and ‘look how well they’ve done compared to us’. I’d urge those people to look again in a few weeks to see what the situation is then. 
Webber was decisive in getting rid of DF who I would give the key of the city to, but must admit has done well to bring in a highly rated manager and coach who have undoubtedly improved our form - not much but a bit. This shows some ambition when he could’ve played it safe.
He hasn’t courted other jobs when his stock was high and did stick around in spite of not signing long term contract. He is a person entitled to keep his options open should an opportunity arise in a business which is VERY fickle. Much like the players themselves, tribalism of commitment is a very rare thing and it’s not realistic to expect an employee to feel as close to our club as we do. 
Another relegation is not good enough for sure, but does he really have the financial resources to stay up anyway, unless by some fluke and short term run like Lambert managed? 
The landscape has changed and he objectively does very well in a landscape of old, as was his remit when brought in. In the absence of a billionaire but ethically sound new owner/investor, I for one don’t want to see a knee jerk response to an impossible problem when we know that the man there can do a job. I’d say he has still earned the right for one more crack at it next year, because at least his way still leaves us with some soul, identity and a model fit for resilience in a world of football clubs being toys. 
I hate the sound bite but we are a top 26 club, and all things considered that’s ok isn’t it? 

In closing, it’s never nice to be the whipping boys, some of our signings aren’t great and we are going down, which makes me miserable now and then. But I don’t see what other outcome the Webber out crew expect and until they offer some kind of improved exit strategy that’ll be in any way likely to change this clubs long term future for the better, I still need convincing. 
 

that’s me anyway 

Sweary 

I agree with most of what you say, I would add that we’re buying players to improve and sell in for a profit. Would we achieve that if we go down?

Max, Rachica & Cantwell will be sold for significantly more than we got them for. Giannoulis will be sold for a reasonable sum. There may be others. This will be the budget for next years assault on a promotion campaign. 
 

If we buy well, get promoted developer and see if we’re closer to staying up in 2 years time. 
 

Until a billionaire owner comes along with sound ethics, this is the way. The strategy. We need to get on board with the plan until we have a change in ownership (which I’m not advocating).

[Danke bitte 971]

Webber’s problem has been his brusqueness. Having exclaimed the previous regimes’ “p155ing money up the wall” and suggesting this season he was aiming for a top 17 finish has opened himself up for criticism when he should have said very little. His Premier League recruitment has been poor twice, though in fairness first time round he was on a hiding to nothing. This time however recruitment got it wrong with large sums spent. I hope he has the humility to hold his hands up if we go down because it happened on his watch… again.

[Channon’s Windmill 344]

14 hours ago, Danke bitte said:

Webber’s problem has been his brusqueness. Having exclaimed the previous regimes’ “p155ing money up the wall” and suggesting this season he was aiming for a top 17 finish has opened himself up for criticism when he should have said very little. His Premier League recruitment has been poor twice, though in fairness first time round he was on a hiding to nothing. This time however recruitment got it wrong with large sums spent. I hope he has the humility to hold his hands up if we go down because it happened on his watch… again.

I think he may have learnt his lesson, he is saying very little now. I believe he will go at the end of this season and he will leave with a legacy of improvement off the field but not on it where it really matters, Premier League recruitment has been very poor.

[Badger 2,421]

On 26/02/2022 at 21:20, hertfordyellow said:

This once great club that was staring down the barrel of administration when he arrived.

I have seen this reported on this board several times, but I'm not at all sure that it is true. I know that we had to sell players (eg Madison) but is there any evidence we were close to administration or is this just another oft-repeated folklore?

[Midlands Yellow 4,165]

10 minutes ago, Badger said:

I have seen this reported on this board several times, but I'm not at all sure that it is true. I know that we had to sell players (eg Madison) but is there any evidence we were close to administration or is this just another oft-repeated folklore?

Maddison was injured at Sheffield in the last match of the season. I remember Dave Freezer saying it would have left us in precarious position to say the least if he wasn’t sold. 

[TheGunnShow 6,195]

4 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Maddison was injured at Sheffield in the last match of the season. I remember Dave Freezer saying it would have left us in precarious position to say the least if he wasn’t sold. 

Norwich City: Stuart Webber on why James Maddison's Leicester City deal helped save the Canaries | The Pink Un

[PurpleCanary 5,633]

29 minutes ago, Badger said:

I have seen this reported on this board several times, but I'm not at all sure that it is true. I know that we had to sell players (eg Madison) but is there any evidence we were close to administration or is this just another oft-repeated folklore?

It is oft-repeated if not folkore then certainly exaggeration that deliberately or otherwise misses the point. That we had Maddison to sell to balance the books was precisely the result of the model we had been pursuing, and if  his injury had scuppered that plan then we would have sold other players, but to compensate would have had the continuing benefit of Maddison, as Webber himself said:

“We would probably have had to sell more players to cover off the gap of him staying here.”

 

[Badger 2,421]

29 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Norwich City: Stuart Webber on why James Maddison's Leicester City deal helped save the Canaries | The Pink Un

Thanks, but no talk at all about administration, simply that we would have had to sell more players. Having to sell players with obviously have been disruptive in a footballing sense, but it is a very different thing from administration.

[Badger 2,421]

36 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Maddison was injured at Sheffield in the last match of the season. I remember Dave Freezer saying it would have left us in precarious position to say the least if he wasn’t sold. 

We would have had to sell other players, to balance the books but that is a very different thing from administration. 

[Midlands Yellow 4,165]

15 minutes ago, Badger said:

We would have had to sell other players, to balance the books but that is a very different thing from administration. 

Who was there to sell back then to pull significant funds in? I’ve just had a peep at the squad back then and we were in the shi£ without selling Maddison. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Midlands Yellow

[hogesar 9,875]

20 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

It is oft-repeated if not folkore then certainly exaggeration that deliberately or otherwise misses the point. That we had Maddison to sell to balance the books was precisely the result of the model we had been pursuing, and if  his injury had scuppered that plan then we would have sold other players, but to compensate would have had the continuing benefit of Maddison, as Webber himself said:

“We would probably have had to sell more players to cover off the gap of him staying here.”

 

Yeah this is exactly the point. Administration wasn't staring us in the face - under the model we had identified this talent and developed him to have asset value. 

 

[hertfordyellow 460]

23 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Who was there to sell back then to pull significant funds in? I’ve just had a peep at the squad back then and we were in the shi£ without selling Maddison. 

This is the point. We were a Maddison injury away from significant financial problems. Talk of just selling other players doesn't point to exactly who.

[hertfordyellow 460]

17 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yeah this is exactly the point. Administration wasn't staring us in the face - under the model we had identified this talent and developed him to have asset value. 

 

And if he was significantly injured as feared? Who else was in that squad that had 'asset value' that would have filled the void?