RIP football.

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

5 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Our sustainable model has only been competitively sustained by Murdoch’s millions.

Parma 

To a large extent that is true, Parma, although not every season,  but it is not as if the Murdoch millions were not known about and we somehow stumbled upon them as a way of sustaining the model all unawares. The model would not have been developed the way it was if the millions had not already been there to be exploited. Given that, our exploitation of them has been rather impressive. And if this largesse had never existed then we would have had to have developed some other way of coping financially. And might need to find some such an alternative in the future…

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,241]

Indeed @PurpleCanary, though I remain unconvinced that our parameters allow for any realistic Plan B.

Plan A is Murdoch’s money, which is somewhat ironic n’est ce pas?

Lambert’s miracle launched the rollercoaster and we have exploited the parachute picnic well ever since, timing things just right as the money exploded..  As the OP intimated however, that is just smaller fleas living off smaller fleas and so on ad Infinitum…

… 

Parma 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I must admit, the players and coaches get on my nerves too. Squalling, moaning, hard done by bunch aren't they.

You and me against the World eh pal? More money will mean more greed. More greed will mean more envy. More foreign players interested and less chance for Brits.

Playing too much football. Why am I not playing? I want a move.

Champions league is all that counts. Not playing in the Cup until the Final.

Coaches who come on media and say so and so is doing a great job and then take his job within days of him being sacked.

Women's footballers wanting more money and more equality when they can't play and a goalkeeper can't touch the bar.

New shirts (3 strips) every season and most of them not as good as the older strips.

Where do I stop?

 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,241]

1 hour ago, chicken said:

That's not quite accurate though is it? The first two seasons with Webber and Farke we had no parachute payments and we we cut out cloth accordingly. We did need to sell Maddison etc the first summer but that was largely due to overspending on the likes of Naismith who bled us dry with wages.

We don't "rely" upon parachute payments in the way you suggest. We actually use it as intended, or at least, a lot closer to it was intended. For starters, it's never going to be an extra income for us for FFP for example. The majority of it is likely to go on wages.
 

History is mostly written by the victors.

If memory serves, the ‘pissed up the wall’ window of Naismith, Pinto and Klose also included the less-precisely-datelined acquisitions of Godfrey and Maddison. 

In this context, those purchases were also products  of Murdoch money - as impoverished Coventry that we scalped will no doubt attest. 

As a corollary point, the ‘pissed up the wall’ window could thus be noted to also have provided a c£44m clear profit on the 2 young players - and indeed saved us from a real firesale of talent.

That is perhaps better context for the future that can await.

History rewritten indeed. 

Parma 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

I don't know how Huddersfield fans could have complained being as they were also getting parachute payments.

 

 

You are quite right Nutty, my poor choice of games as picked two of our more convincing wins last year. My point however remains that many fans are happy to overlook the financial unfairness when we are the big fish in a small pond.

[astro 366]

It needs a salary cap per team, based on which division they are in. 

[yellowrider120 782]

8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I must admit, the players and coaches get on my nerves too. Squalling, moaning, hard done by bunch aren't they.

You and me against the World eh pal? More money will mean more greed. More greed will mean more envy. More foreign players interested and less chance for Brits.

Playing too much football. Why am I not playing? I want a move.

Champions league is all that counts. Not playing in the Cup until the Final.

Coaches who come on media and say so and so is doing a great job and then take his job within days of him being sacked.

Women's footballers wanting more money and more equality when they can't play and a goalkeeper can't touch the bar.

New shirts (3 strips) every season and most of them not as good as the older strips.

Where do I stop?

 

Totally agree but for a person of your political 'leanings' Keelan, I'm pleasantly surprised at the stance you are taking here on such a 'diverse' issue! Your masters in the Public Sector and at Labour HQ will be most annoyed with you I'm sure!!

[Badger 2,412]

6 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Our sustainable model has only been competitively sustained by Murdoch’s millions.

Parma 

Not sure if this is true, Parma. 

If you took the TV money away you would lose the multi billionaire glamour owners as well as the investor owners. If football was sustained by crowds and commercial operations (like catering/ office space etc) Norwich would not be any worse off, and if well managed, have more chance of being a sustainable top league team. 

[corbs 147]

Why is taking tv money ironic? No more so than taking sponsorship from Poll Withey. 

[Badger 2,412]

2 hours ago, chicken said:

We don't "rely" upon parachute payments in the way you suggest. We actually use it as intended, or at least, a lot closer to it was intended. For starters, it's never going to be an extra income for us for FFP for example. The majority of it is likely to go on wages.

Thank you.

Farke's first promotion was after the parachute money had finished. We always have a good chance of being competitive in the Championship as long as our crowds are big and our commercial operations are successful.

In both categories we are in the top half a dozen of the championship. Reading and Huddersfield are likely to continue to struggle against us, without TV money because we get bigger crowds and have a better commercial operation.

[Badger 2,412]

58 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

History is mostly written by the victors.

If memory serves, the ‘pissed up the wall’ window of Naismith, Pinto and Klose also included the less-precisely-datelined acquisitions of Godfrey and Maddison. 

In this context, those purchases were also products  of Murdoch money - as impoverished Coventry that we scalped will no doubt attest. 

As a corollary point, the ‘pissed up the wall’ window could thus be noted to also have provided a c£44m clear profit on the 2 young players - and indeed saved us from a real firesale of talent.

That is perhaps better context for the future that can await.

History rewritten indeed. 

Parma 

I think that you missed the point Parma. 

In a world dominated by TV money, of course we need TV money. However, in a world dominated by gate receipts and commercial operations, we would probably be a yo-yo team! (As indeed we were.)

[corbs 147]

Going back to the original post, Justin, you’re in good company. Some of the most passionate fans I know stopped attending for a range of reasons. Many a time I’ve sat next to someone glued to the TT or whatever during the game, whilst my diehard mate who no longer goes, waits to see me after the game in the pub, to go over every detail. But on the subject of hatred, there is a deeper disillusionment that has set in for many, the game has got away from them, leaving a sense of betrayal and even loss of identity. My local pub is loosely a West Ham pub, situated quite close to the new “London” stadium. A small cohort of regular guys are always there wearing colours. I’m on convivial-ish terms with them, but best not to men football and particularly The Iron. Another regular said to me , ‘ Oh West Ham Steve, he never goes to games anymore’. I well believe it, noting the world weary disdain for all and sundry. It’s clear to me it’s not just modern football that is distrusted and largely despised, it’s the world and people around us for many. 

[nutty nigel 7,602]

1 hour ago, Son Ova Gunn said:

You are quite right Nutty, my poor choice of games as picked two of our more convincing wins last year. My point however remains that many fans are happy to overlook the financial unfairness when we are the big fish in a small pond.

Well, maybe, but I doubt you noticed the other clubs with parachute payments either. 

We bounced back as did Watford. Bournemouth failed.

Then the previous season Cardiff, Fulham and Huddersfield all failed.

Then the previous season Swansea, Stoke and West Brom all failed.

Then the previous season Sunderland, Middlesbrough and Hull all failed.

Last season we were among  8 clubs in receipt of parachute payments. 

I don't see why the media seem to highlight the parachute payments we earn as somehow undeserved while clubs who fail don't seem to get even a ripple of critcism for wasting them.  And I even less understand why there is so much hand-ringing woe is us nonsense about it from our own fans.

[ged in the onion bag 856]

8 hours ago, Justin time said:

Football in this country has been dying slowly for many years but for me last week it drew its last breath.

It is understood that the tv rights to the premier league will increase to something like £ 10 billion for the next three years. We all know the so called big fish will want as much of that as possible and the small clubs might get a token amount.

Saturday evening even the most die hard supporter will have attended Carrow road expecting that we would lose by at least three or four. Gone are the days when you might expect an upset but those days have become as rare as hens teeth.We knew we would lose because of the expensive team that Man City had assembled and that even their bench and some kids would probably beat us.

Now we have the latest billionaire club buying their way up the league, and no I would not want that at my club, and will probably in the near future circumvent ffp in the same way that the other big clubs manage to do.

Then we have the latest fiasco at West Ham where a highly paid footballer can somehow abuse his family pets and still be seen to be backed by his club, two weeks wages to him is a spit in the ocean, other players have committed crimes , I know, and have been forgiven by their football clubs.What message does that send to up and coming youngsters in the game?

There also seems to be a worrying trend appearing that football hooliganism is on the rise again involving many youths as young as fifteen being involved. As someone who experienced this in the seventies , eighties and beyond , being attacked in Leicester, Birmingham and Millwall, I would hate to see those days return .

In some ways I wish the big six would have joined a European super league although you would then probably create another big six in the teams that were left.gone are the days when football was about the game and not a business.

So after 60 years of playing, coaching and supporting I have decided not to attend , or watch , anymore. I love my club but unfortunately I no longer love the beautiful game.

OTBC.

 

Am getting there myself...very well said, sad post but so true.    All this and you never even mentioned the diabolical rules, VAR or referees being exposed for having not played on not understanding the dynamic of movement near a football.  

Isn't it time the fans took the game back!  

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,241]

57 minutes ago, Badger said:

Not sure if this is true, Parma. 

If you took the TV money away you would lose the multi billionaire glamour owners as well as the investor owners. If football was sustained by crowds and commercial operations (like catering/ office space etc) Norwich would not be any worse off, and if well managed, have more chance of being a sustainable top league team. 

The OP talked of the dominance of finance and the distortion of competitiveness. At a lower level that argument is echoed by the distortion caused by Parachute payments.

Thus we are part of the food chain, not morally, spiritually or operationally above it. 

Parma  

[ricardo 7,396]

If we had the finances of Man City I doubt anybody at CR would be too worried about the also rans. The old times were fun but they aint coming back so we will just have to make the best of what we have, which is not as much as some but a lot more then most.

I am resigned to loving the Yoyo. Long live the Yoyo.

[FenwayFrank 2,467]

17 minutes ago, corbs said:

But on the subject of hatred, there is a deeper disillusionment that has set in for many, the game has got away from them, leaving a sense of betrayal and even loss of identity

Yeah, disillusioned probably sums it up best

[Danke bitte 967]

2 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Indeed @PurpleCanary, though I remain unconvinced that our parameters allow for any realistic Plan B.

Plan A is Murdoch’s money, which is somewhat ironic n’est ce pas?

Lambert’s miracle launched the rollercoaster and we have exploited the parachute picnic well ever since, timing things just right as the money exploded..  As the OP intimated however, that is just smaller fleas living off smaller fleas and so on ad Infinitum…

… 

Parma 

 

Be careful Parma. I used the term “exploited” regarding parachute payments and nearly got set on fire. Apparently we’ve not exploited anything as that would imply we intentionally get relegated; we merely use the tools available to us, tools which were invented by the Premier League. No exploiting here my friend 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,241]

43 minutes ago, ricardo said:

If we had the finances of Man City I doubt anybody at CR would be too worried about the also rans. The old times were fun but they aint coming back so we will just have to make the best of what we have, which is not as much as some but a lot more then most.

I am resigned to loving the Yoyo. Long live the Yoyo.

I would suggest it is whether the relative (huge) success of yo-yoing is indeed ‘long-lived’…

..what does the Ricardo-ometer read…?…

Parma 

[ged in the onion bag 856]

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

If we had the finances of Man City I doubt anybody at CR would be too worried about the also rans. The old times were fun but they aint coming back so we will just have to make the best of what we have, which is not as much as some but a lot more then most.

I am resigned to loving the Yoyo. Long live the Yoyo.

Think the tone of the post is that many are so fed up that we won’t make the best of it, eventually we’ll find something less infuriating.    
 

In so many ways, the Championship is a better place to be.   The Premier League has lost all integrity, even the idiotic rules and VAR are stacked in favour of the rich clubs.
 

 

[CirclePoint 205]

8 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I'm not as old as you but very close to walking away as well, I'm embarrassed to call myself a football fan to be honest and keep it quiet within my social group, with everything you've mentioned plus all the other nonsense that's been going on I'm just sick of it all. I've said before that it's only my attachment to this club that's keeping me going, I kind of hate football in general. I hate every other club, hate the players and how now they're now they're own brand and how obvious it is that their entire image and social media personality is controlled by a PR team, hate the owners and all the sportswashing BS, hate the media side of it and the circus it's become, I hate how it's now a contest of who has the most money, the atmosphere at every ground is terrible and I hate how expensive it's become, hate the media and refereeing bias etc etc

I'm very close to being done and it's not just because of how much we've struggled this year, I think a lot of us would be much happier if we just jacked it all in.  

I feel your sentiment. I would agree with you 100% except for the word 'hate'. For me it's more of a matter of becoming disdainful.

[Taiwan Canary 145]

7 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Indeed @PurpleCanary, though I remain unconvinced that our parameters allow for any realistic Plan B.

Plan A is Murdoch’s money, which is somewhat ironic n’est ce pas?

Lambert’s miracle launched the rollercoaster and we have exploited the parachute picnic well ever since, timing things just right as the money exploded..  As the OP intimated however, that is just smaller fleas living off smaller fleas and so on ad Infinitum…

… 

Parma 

 

The parasite analogy is an apt one, the problem being that there is (and only ever will be) one host. We can only hope that said host evolves in a way which enables us to keep eating. As Ricardo said embrace the yoyo!

[Fuzzar 1,703]

10 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I would suggest it is whether the relative (huge) success of yo-yoing is indeed ‘long-lived’…

..what does the Ricardo-ometer read…?…

Parma 

Ricardo is better at predicting the past than the future, just like the rest of us.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,241]

17 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

Ricardo is better at predicting the past than the future, just like the rest of us.

We like the term ‘regression analysis’…🤗

Parma 

[ricardo 7,396]

59 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

Ricardo is better at predicting the past than the future, just like the rest of us.

My crystal ball was showing relegation way back in November.

Ive just had another look at it.

No change.😥

[Nora's Ghost 157]

The initial rot set in for me when the club became celeb Delia Smith's 'plaything' and our geographical location no longer remained the symbol of who we represented. Virtually the entire upper echelon of English football clubs are now simply commercial 'brands' in the hands of tv companies to do with what they will.

 

At least our club colours remain our own.... for now.

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

12 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Well, maybe, but I doubt you noticed the other clubs with parachute payments either. 

We bounced back as did Watford. Bournemouth failed.

Then the previous season Cardiff, Fulham and Huddersfield all failed.

Then the previous season Swansea, Stoke and West Brom all failed.

Then the previous season Sunderland, Middlesbrough and Hull all failed.

Last season we were among  8 clubs in receipt of parachute payments. 

I don't see why the media seem to highlight the parachute payments we earn as somehow undeserved while clubs who fail don't seem to get even a ripple of critcism for wasting them.  And I even less understand why there is so much hand-ringing woe is us nonsense about it from our own fans.

The parachute payments are there so clubs don’t have to fire sale their squads and readjust to life and finances of the championship, not to ensure subsequent promotion so not sure why you think clubs failing to get promotion have either wasted them or should be criticised.

personally I don’t think our club has gained unfair advantage with them or they are undeserved, removing them would be a mistake.  I think fans of other clubs who have hit a wall think there unfair and that’s where we are now. Because we can’t make that next step all the things wrong with football become worse, rich owners, overpaid footballers etc etc. If the original poster was a Brighton fan, would he think football is now terrible compared to 20yrs ago?, do Man City fans long for the 90’s?, did the disillusioned Norwich fans feel this way last year?… maybe but my guess is not in the same numbers. Wishing that everything else changes, the league, the opposition, the media, it’s not going to happen and for now we just have to find the scraps of enjoyment where we can.

[Steve White 24]

Some very good and balanced posts on here most of which I agree with - many long time faithful fans now becoming disillusioned and turning their backs on the game. Ricardo has always been a balanced and good poster on here - football has been all about money for many years but will even he admit that something has happened to the integrity of the game over the last 10 years?

[hertfordyellow 460]

When people are saying hooliganism is on the rise in this country, what are they using as a measure? It's definitely on the rise in France and Italy, the number of incidents and even game cancellations due to fan involvement has increased. 

 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,063]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. My season ticket renewal just came through and I'm seriously considering not bothering. I generally can't stand the game and what it stands for anymore. It's only my love of where I live that keeps me coming back. Zouma, Mendy, Sigurdsson, Giggs, Greenwood, Newcastle etc etc. 

But I think Zouma and more importantly Moyes defending and picking him coz "he's one of our better players" has pushed me over the edge. As a manager what Moyes did is scandalous and unforgivable. The game has gone and that was the best example of how far it has fallen when a manager says that if you're a good player you can do whatever you want. He should have to feel guilty about that for the rest of his life but he won't because he's clearly a horrible person who doesnt care about anything other than his career and the money he makes.