So is Putin going to invade Ukraine anytime soon or..?

[Van wink 2,994]

Putin will be eating Chicken Kiev within a few days. They will walk in and it will be so easy he may not want to stop!

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

On 17/02/2022 at 20:30, ricardo said:

Yeah, definitely a rigged draw. We never get an easy one.

 

Dunno, Zanzibar away was done in less than a half.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

30 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Putin will be eating Chicken Kiev within a few days. They will walk in and it will be so easy he may not want to stop!

Not if they are from Iceland

[Erraticus 55]

On 11/02/2022 at 22:12, The Real Buh said:

Can somebody get Joe Bidens nurse to stop sponging him down for a minute and get his river-corpse of a body on the phone to Russia and maybe try and stop this war from happening maybe?

And if this walking dead looking pr1ck can’t solve it maybe give the job to someone who didn’t fight in the American civil war and isn’t controlled by lobbyists who stand to make a fortune from our potential nuclear annihilation?

can we maybe have a go at doing that? Or is everyone still going to keep taking about trump?

Totally on point and I couldn't agree more

[The Real Buh 3,432]

10 minutes ago, Erraticus said:

Totally on point and I couldn't agree more

There’s a huge pot of cash involved in getting this war going and I believe it’s irresistible to some. 

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

Serious Question.

At what point does the West confront militarily Putin ?

No fly zone over Ukraine?

Or do we wait until he threatens another ex USSR state ?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

35 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Serious Question.

At what point does the West confront militarily Putin ?

No fly zone over Ukraine?

Or do we wait until he threatens another ex USSR state ?

Do we really know the full story? Is it all Putin? Is he trying to establish a new USSR?

Or is it the NATO ambitions? Have Ukraine fulfilled the cease fire terms?

Why do Russinas living in Ukraine want a Russian enclave or state even? Go back to Russia. What is it with Eastern Europeans that they violently still identify with their mother country?

I'm just glad Trump isn't POTUS. Despite his phoney dove impersonation, he is a bully and would love the limelight with this one and might have committed to much.

[Indy 3,300]

Buh is correct for the US it’s great money generator and away from their shores, for Boris and his bunch of clowns it’s a fantastic situation to move all the focus away from his lies and possible challenge to his job, for Putin it’s all about sabre rattling to show they’re still here and for Ukraine who has a deeply divided population who certainly aren’t all in love with the west, a huge part still see themselves as Pro Russia as the south east regions show.

I can certainly sympathise with Russia ( I’m certainly no lover of old Soviet Union ideology having lived it first hand) all the agreed protocols have been bypassed and the soft European boundaries on the Russian borders have gone to NATO. As Russia have been in Crimea since the Second World War they’re not going to give up southern Ukraine without a struggle, how far they’re willing to go is up for debate, but I can see Putin playing the short game of invading Luhansk & Donestsk regions and setting up a hard border, this will no doubt lead to some sanctions but probably fall short of any possible war. In effect we’ll end up with a Eastern Ukraine with pro Russia ties. But who knows this time next year it could be all out was across Europe as there’s certainly a deep division in populations.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Indy

[Herman 9,765]

Putin is building a massive force on a sovereign nations border, pumping out massive amounts of misinformation, cyber attacks and other sorts of problems.

The Left: It's all NATO's fault.

The Right: It's all Biden's fault.

Am I missing something here?

[ricardo 7,395]

34 minutes ago, Herman said:

Putin is building a massive force on a sovereign nations border, pumping out massive amounts of misinformation, cyber attacks and other sorts of problems.

The Left: It's all NATO's fault.

The Right: It's all Biden's fault.

Am I missing something here?

Yeah, you forgot to blame Boris.

[Indy 3,300]

36 minutes ago, Herman said:

Putin is building a massive force on a sovereign nations border, pumping out massive amounts of misinformation, cyber attacks and other sorts of problems.

The Left: It's all NATO's fault.

The Right: It's all Biden's fault.

Am I missing something here?

Certainly true Herman, but every major power uses misinformation and cyber attacks, I’m pretty sure UK and US do on China and Russia no doubt, just modern propaganda and cyber war.

Ukraine is definitely a different structure, the east is definitely allied more so to Russia, so like Irish of old some certain loyalties lie in different mind set.

Hopefully sensible people can get a calm outcome, unfortunately we have three major leaders involved who aren’t sensible or normal! It’s going to get ugly!

Edited February 19, 2022 by Indy

[Indy 3,300]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Yeah, you forgot to blame Boris.

Well when you send your Secretary of State to a country and she doesn’t even have the courtesy to have the knowledge of Russia’s provinces making her and the British government look like amateurs then you certainly need to look at Bumbling Boris and his people too. They’re all power hungry xxxx….

[Van wink 2,994]

The Ukrainian situation has unfolded perfectly for BJ

[A Load of Squit 5,163]

On 18/02/2022 at 23:05, Van wink said:

Putin will be eating Chicken Kiev within a few days. They will walk in and it will be so easy he may not want to stop!

After losing the Ice Hockey gold medal to Finland he'll probably shift all the troops away from the Ukraine border to deal with Suomi's act of aggression.

 

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

One can debate the decisions  to extend the EU and NATO up to the borders of Russia, which were decisions taken with no real debate about the long term impact.

 

But, I think Putin thought he’d caught the West at a weak moment and was hoping to extract concessions. It seems that hasn’t worked, so his problem now is that after repeatedly denying he’s going to invade, if he pulls back, he looks weak, but if he does invade, he looks really stupid no matter what the “provocation” that’s manufactured   plus he risks getting hit with some real sanctions and being mired in a long term conflict that could cost Russian casualties

 

The troops are out of the barracks in the middle of winter, so he’s got a limited time to decide, but either way it’s not what he wants. 

[Van wink 2,994]

12 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

 

 

 

But, I think Putin thought he’d caught the West at a weak moment and was hoping to extract concessions. I

I suspect he would have done had Mr Macron had his way

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

After losing the Ice Hockey gold medal to Finland he'll probably shift all the troops away from the Ukraine border to deal with Suomi's act of aggression.

 

After yesterday, lets hope Teemu can shoot better if he's called up.

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

20 hours ago, Indy said:

Buh is correct for the US it’s great money generator and away from their shores, for Boris and his bunch of clowns it’s a fantastic situation to move all the focus away from his lies and possible challenge to his job, for Putin it’s all about sabre rattling to show they’re still here and for Ukraine who has a deeply divided population who certainly aren’t all in love with the west, a huge part still see themselves as Pro Russia as the south east regions show.

I can certainly sympathise with Russia ( I’m certainly no lover of old Soviet Union ideology having lived it first hand) all the agreed protocols have been bypassed and the soft European boundaries on the Russian borders have gone to NATO. As Russia have been in Crimea since the Second World War they’re not going to give up southern Ukraine without a struggle, how far they’re willing to go is up for debate, but I can see Putin playing the short game of invading Luhansk & Donestsk regions and setting up a hard border, this will no doubt lead to some sanctions but probably fall short of any possible war. In effect we’ll end up with a Eastern Ukraine with pro Russia ties. But who knows this time next year it could be all out was across Europe as there’s certainly a deep division in populations.

I'm sorry but I don't go with this idea that the Yanks want a distant war as great money maker (for defense companies). It's just not true. It's a leftist myth.

By any rational argument the expansionist aggressor state is currently Russia - and what Putin's actions have now been for years is to feed his own 'arms industry' (indeed making such sales around the world). Recent demonstrations of hypersonic missiles, surface to air and the like. The 'military-industrial complex' notion determining policy would currently it seem to me be a better match to Putin's Russia than the West (although the Yanks do indeed spend disproportionately on weapons).

What I do agree with, indeed commented earlier, is that several western defense companies will be keen to see, if it has to happen, how a few 'state of the art' defense systems (as in defensive) behave in real battlefield situation scenarios -  'battle tested' as per our Rapier systems, Sea Wolf and indeed the Sea Harriers as in the Falklands.

[Indy 3,300]

42 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I'm sorry but I don't go with this idea that the Yanks want a distant war as great money maker (for defense companies). It's just not true. It's a leftist myth.

By any rational argument the expansionist aggressor state is currently Russia - and what Putin's actions have now been for years is to feed his own 'arms industry' (indeed making such sales around the world). Recent demonstrations of hypersonic missiles, surface to air and the like. The 'military-industrial complex' notion determining policy would currently it seem to me be a better match to Putin's Russia than the West (although the Yanks do indeed spend disproportionately on weapons).

What I do agree with, indeed commented earlier, is that several western defense companies will be keen to see, if it has to happen, how a few 'state of the art' defense systems (as in defensive) behave in real battlefield situation scenarios -  'battle tested' as per our Rapier systems, Sea Wolf and indeed the Sea Harriers as in the Falklands.

YF even now we’re sending arms into Ukraine and so will the US and these won’t be free! They’ll be caveats and reparation for any agreed arms. If it escalated then there’s millions of pounds worth of business.

But I’m not saying they’re provoking, but certainly Biden is doing nothing to de-escalate the situation he’s doing more damage with his constant need to headline his comments across the media! Credit to the Ukrainian government who has handled this very well trying to calm it all down. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Indy

[Van wink 2,994]

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

YF even now we’re sending arms into Ukraine and so will the US and these won’t be free! They’ll be caveats and reparation for any agreed arms. If it escalated then there’s millions of pounds worth of business.

But I’m not saying they’re provoking, but certainly Biden is doing nothing to de-escalate the situation he’s doing more damage with his constant need to headline his comments across the media! Credit to the Ukrainian government who has handled this very well trying to calm it all down. 

The Ukraine Government still has to govern, that task will be made inextricably more difficult if the population gets over exited, they are playing to their domestic audience. Most other observers are calling it as it is imo.

[Indy 3,300]

11 minutes ago, Van wink said:

The Ukraine Government still has to govern, that task will be made inextricably more difficult if the population gets over exited, they are playing to their domestic audience. Most other observers are calling it as it is imo.

Indeed and as I’ve alluded to Ukraine in its eastern regions has a big pro Russian population so it’s very difficult for a progressive government to manage all the population! Never mind deflate the egos of three utterly self centred leaders in Putin, Boris and Biden!

[Foxy2600 301]

3 hours ago, Indy said:

Indeed and as I’ve alluded to Ukraine in its eastern regions has a big pro Russian population so it’s very difficult for a progressive government to manage all the population! Never mind deflate the egos of three utterly self centred leaders in Putin, Boris and Biden!

Politics in a simple oven ready package - Russia needs another vassal state to bend to its wishes (Belorusky) and stop these nasty free-thinking Liberalists/Democrats/Socialists anointing another piece of Soviet Union Territory…

Putin, put one step into sovereign Ukraine, we start carpet bombing Kaliningrad - for those whom have no idea where Kaliningrad is, it’s kind of like Monaco, Gibraltar, Liechtenstein or strangely even Melilla, Northern Cyprus and Ceuta

[Van wink 2,994]

5 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I'm sorry but I don't go with this idea that the Yanks want a distant war as great money maker (for defense companies). It's just not true. It's a leftist myth.

 

I can’t see how the Russian aggression will result in anything other than the expanding of armaments in the West, UK, Germany etc. Countries that develop, produce and sell weapons will enjoy an economic boost surely?

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

5 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I'm sorry but I don't go with this idea that the Yanks want a distant war as great money maker (for defense companies). It's just not true. It's a leftist myth.

By any rational argument the expansionist aggressor state is currently Russia - and what Putin's actions have now been for years is to feed his own 'arms industry' (indeed making such sales around the world). Recent demonstrations of hypersonic missiles, surface to air and the like. The 'military-industrial complex' notion determining policy would currently it seem to me be a better match to Putin's Russia than the West (although the Yanks do indeed spend disproportionately on weapons).

What I do agree with, indeed commented earlier, is that several western defense companies will be keen to see, if it has to happen, how a few 'state of the art' defense systems (as in defensive) behave in real battlefield situation scenarios -  'battle tested' as per our Rapier systems, Sea Wolf and indeed the Sea Harriers as in the Falklands.

The market for selling weapons into the Russian market is small in comparison the the US. Russian military spending is about the same as the UK's spending. Indeed, every other country in the world is way smaller than the Americans in terms of military spending, and the second largest, China produces much less technically developed hardware.

One doesn't have to be a leftie to see that the US is a cash cow for military-industrial companies, and the best way to keep that military budget in place is to get the US engaged in operations throughout the globe. The two largest defence contractors Lockheed and Raytheon earned 88% and 94% of their revenue from defence contracts, which they need to keep going. The US, according to Wikipedia, had a defence budget of $778B in 2021 compared to Russia's $61B spend

[Foxy2600 301]

1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

The market for selling weapons into the Russian market is small in comparison the the US. Russian military spending is about the same as the UK's spending. Indeed, every other country in the world is way smaller than the Americans in terms of military spending, and the second largest, China produces much less technically developed hardware.

One doesn't have to be a leftie to see that the US is a cash cow for military-industrial companies, and the best way to keep that military budget in place is to get the US engaged in operations throughout the globe. The two largest defence contractors Lockheed and Raytheon earned 88% and 94% of their revenue from defence contracts, which they need to keep going. The US, according to Wikipedia, had a defence budget of $778B in 2021 compared to Russia's $61B spend

I think the Ukraine are ‘Lefties’ - I hope Russians love their Children too - Sting 1982. 
Wake Up! Putin is Al Capone! 

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

I can’t see how the Russian aggression will result in anything other than the expanding of armaments in the West, UK, Germany etc. Countries that develop, produce and sell weapons will enjoy an economic boost surely?

Yes of course - but its not the intention as I think Indy inferred. It's not 'lets have a war' to make money. Nobody rational wants a war.

Anyway the point I was making about the Russians - their private companies will also benefit in the same way as Western ones i.e. Tupolev etc.

Sadly what it will do is showcase many weapon systems that won't have been used or seen in action

Tanks rolling across the plains, multiple tank killing munitions i.e. EFPs being deployed and so on. Then again we've been concentrating since the cold war or light anti-insurgent weapons - 30mm or less not 80mm - 120mm.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes of course - but its not the intention as I think Indy inferred. It's not 'lets have a war' to make money. Nobody rational wants a war.

 

Obviously, however there are many powerful vested interests that will gain benefit, some political and some financial. 

[Indy 3,300]

7 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Obviously, however there are many powerful vested interests that will gain benefit, some political and some financial. 

That’s the point I was making, not saying the US want to start the war but certainly doing nothing to stop it, much more by Biden comments actually pushing Putin to do it! It’s noticeable that those at most risk are trying to calm the waters. Sensible outcome needed.

[Van wink 2,994]

US president Joe Biden spoke with French president Emmanuel Macron on Sunday, the White House said, amid western fears that Russia is planning to invade Ukraine.

The call came after Macron’s calls with Russian president Vladimir Putin, Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelenskiy and UK prime minister Boris Johnson.

Johnson hailed “welcome signs” that diplomacy could still bear fruit on Sunday evening – referring to Putin’s engagement with Macron – and appeared to buck Biden’s rhetoric, which in recent days has said Putin has already made the call to invade.

[Surfer 1,547]

On 18/02/2022 at 15:05, Van wink said:

Putin will be eating Chicken Kiev within a few days. They will walk in and it will be so easy he may not want to stop!

The Russians may force their way into Kyiv in a few days but it will not be easy and the Ukrainian people will resist. Ukranians are not Russians, and it is yet to be seen what internal resistance there will be in Belarus too, Luskashenko is despised by his population so an invasion that includes Belarus troops could finally bring him down. Putin may be severely underestimating how hard and drawn out a Ukraine invasion will be, everyone who would celebrate being "liberated" is already on his side... will be interesting to see which way the Chinese come down on this issue. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Surfer