So is Putin going to invade Ukraine anytime soon or..?

[horsefly 4,300]

10 hours ago, kirku said:

While I agree with your overall point, Ukrainians already essentially had visa-free access to the Schengen zone (90 day visa on arrival)

Thanks for the clarification. Of course it's also the case that the current EU visa waivers go well beyond Schengen 90 days arrangement. Irrespective of this, Patel's reference to EU border arrangements is entirely irrelevant to her own policy decision to force Ukrainian refugees to go through the current utterly onerous and immoral visa application system. She could stop this today if she wished, and perform security checks when the refugees have reached the country.

[Herman 9,767]

 

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

4 hours ago, Herman said:

 

Now official. Sunk. Gone stealth mode.

[ricardo 7,395]

Biggest warship sunk since the Belgrano.

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

9 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Now official. Sunk. Gone stealth mode.

 

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Biggest warship sunk since the Belgrano.

Bet Putin is in a foul mode tonight.

[Herman 9,767]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

Bet Putin is in a foul mode tonight.

It's hard to tell as he only has one expression.😀

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Bet Putin is in a foul mode tonight.

That would please me if it weren't for that slight tinge of worry that he'll one day push the nuclear button in a strop and destroy the whole of Estonia or something. 

[ricardo 7,395]

Admiral Osipov arrested apparently.

The Ukrainians hardly need to bother knocking off the top brass when the Russians are doing it for them.

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

I actually think there are some general lessons to be learnt from this war. Modern 'smart' weapons and munitions really can make obsolete larger platforms i.e. tanks and ships. Far too easy to target. Indeed these WW2 style wars may become unwinnable.

Note we've hardly seen any of the true Western systems deployed to date specifically designed to negate Russian mass armour.

[Herman 9,767]

[lake district canary 4,531]

11 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I actually think there are some general lessons to be learnt from this war. Modern 'smart' weapons and munitions really can make obsolete larger platforms i.e. tanks and ships. Far too easy to target. Indeed these WW2 style wars may become unwinnable.

Note we've hardly seen any of the true Western systems deployed to date specifically designed to negate Russian mass armour.

It's scary, but true. Drones and pinpoint targeting weapons mean any tank or lorry can be picked out almost at will, so convoys driving down main roads are just sitting ducks. Russia though, does not seem to have the same capabilities - yes they can target buildings with their missiles and artillery, but they look so limited in what they can do.

Invading a country means you have to have lines of communication and supplies set up - and in modern warfare the further you go, the harder it is to keep these going.  A quick dash to the capital with sheer force of numbers becomes a ruinous approach - it worked in the 1940s because there was not much that could stop it - but today's systems and technology are showing how poor that tactic is nowadays.  That a huge country like Russia could not forsee that is scary. They will have lost thousands of men and machinery and only pulled back because they had no choice.

So for Putin, his war has now become a war of attrition, a slow and gradual push from the east. It will unfortunately mean more terrible destruction like we can see has been happening in Marioupol, a slow push destroying everything in it's path. So when it is over, there will be nothing left, except empty landscape. It's madness at it's most inhuman form.

And it is mad, no question. The last thing the world needs is a big conflict and yet here is one man with total control over every one around him who can cause misery and destruction to a big country and for what? Nothing. Zilch. He will gain nothing out of this except his own downfall, whether now or in five or ten years time. The longer it goes on the more misery and destruction he will be responsible for and he will benefit nothing. It is futile and staggeringly sad and unjust for the people of the Ukraine.

Putin has to go. Simples. Someone, somewhere in his heirachy has to have the balls to stand up to him, but such is the fear and control he has, it is hard to see where that would come from.  Simple citizens try and it is easy to stop them by locking them up, so they are powerless....unless enough people do it. Russian people have to rise up and take to the streets en masse - but then how indoctrinated are they - is the censorship of the internet so good it stops Russians from finding the truth?  Are there really so many people that actually believe in Putin unquestionably?

Awful times, the last thing the world needs is more conflicts, when what is needed is co-operation between nations. It can only be hoped that the rest of the world totally isolates Russia so Putin is forced to stand down - or is forced out by his own people.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

what is your interest in the Ukraine, apart from cheap fertilizers, wheat and some animal foods? They are not in NATO, despite their expansion into the east against their own word. There are some bio labs which shared their 'research' into all kinds of weaponry, with us/Porton Down, but that is it.

Will you make Putin stand down, or vote out the supporters of fascists here in this country? does your vote even count? is it not dis proportionally favouring the status quo of a two party oligarchy and a cheerful establishment?

I agree with your last paragraph and say that for exactly those reasons we should stop throwing petrol/arms into this cauldron, for we are prolonging the agony.

[Sheva 123]

My interest is family from Marioupol, missing, brother in law ( lawyer) called up to fight along with many lifelong friends,former pupil’s already killed, families forced from their homes to foreign lands, pets left hungry, property bombed and raised to the ground. 
The Russian Nazis holding the world to ransom ( for now )… that’s my interest. 
 

…..keep supporting Ukraine against the invaders, the evil dictator, that is Putin and pray he is killed before he pushes that button of mass annihilation.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Sheva

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

15 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

what is your interest in the Ukraine, apart from cheap fertilizers, wheat and some animal foods? They are not in NATO, despite their expansion into the east against their own word. There are some bio labs which shared their 'research' into all kinds of weaponry, with us/Porton Down, but that is it.

Will you make Putin stand down, or vote out the supporters of fascists here in this country? does your vote even count? is it not dis proportionally favouring the status quo of a two party oligarchy and a cheerful establishment?

I agree with your last paragraph and say that for exactly those reasons we should stop throwing petrol/arms into this cauldron, for we are prolonging the agony.

A shame Putin didn’t think about this before he invaded again (breaking the treaty Russia had signed). Maybe he should take your advice about not throwing more “petrol/arms” into the fight. Where is your evidence for “bio labs”?

 

 

my interest in Ukraine is that it’s a country that has been the subject of an unprovoked invasion by its much larger neighbour and I hope it can fight it off. We should support them as much as we can short of actually joining in the war.

[Indy 3,300]

5 hours ago, It's Character Forming said:

A shame Putin didn’t think about this before he invaded again (breaking the treaty Russia had signed). Maybe he should take your advice about not throwing more “petrol/arms” into the fight. Where is your evidence for “bio labs”?

 

 

my interest in Ukraine is that it’s a country that has been the subject of an unprovoked invasion by its much larger neighbour and I hope it can fight it off. We should support them as much as we can short of actually joining in the war.

Just to play devils advocate here, it could be argued by Russia that NATO broke the agreement not to expand into the former Russian held countries, that it had to make a stand at some point and it did so here!

Secondly if your interests are in countries having unprovoked attacks by larger nations then Iraq and Afghanistan should be mentioned! But won’t be acknowledged as so because it was the US which implemented them with backing by other countries!

Last if we’re so deplored by annexing of land at the expense of population and potential war crimes, Israel have been doing this for fifty years without any criticism!

Its ok to be appalled by this because it’s mad Putin and our western press have been all over this, but it’s not about pointing fingers it’s about mad power hungry men from all parts of the world killing civilians in the name of some justification on their part. It has to stop and stop soon, I keep saying it and will keep saying it, de escalate it now, come to an agreement and live with it. We have five to ten years to fix the planet for our children and future generations, we won’t do so by self destruction or prolonged war. Mental.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

And wasn't it Russian activity in Chechnya, Abkhazia etc. that would ultimately make those states think "we need protection against possible Putin-led aggression? Also, didn't Russia ignore an agreement not to attack Ukraine after Ukraine gave up its nukes voluntarily?

Why Russia even thinks that NATO-related proposal is even reasonable, that it can basically say other countries cannot join an association, is strange. I think Israel's had plenty of criticism, but unfortunately the powers-that-be haven't taken it up (and I agree that Israeli leaders should have been on trial for it). I can accept an argument that defining a line in the sand automatically sets a different precedent and can be seen potentially as "double standards" but then it also pickles matters into a dogma with the inability to leam from mistakes.

[Indy 3,300]

20 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

And wasn't it Russian activity in Chechnya, Abkhazia etc. that would ultimately make those states think "we need protection against possible Putin-led aggression? Also, didn't Russia ignore an agreement not to attack Ukraine after Ukraine gave up its nukes voluntarily?

Why Russia even thinks that NATO-related proposal is even reasonable, that it can basically say other countries cannot join an association, is strange. I think Israel's had plenty of criticism, but unfortunately the powers-that-be haven't taken it up (and I agree that Israeli leaders should have been on trial for it). I can accept an argument that defining a line in the sand automatically sets a different precedent and can be seen potentially as "double standards" but then it also pickles matters into a dogma with the inability to leam from mistakes.

Exactly, your still looking at it from one point of view! It’s not rational to say other countries can’t join other organisations but in the 60’s America did pretty much the same by stopping Russian missiles going to Cuba! So double standards there too! They prevented a country in aligning itself with Russian war equipment, could be said that Russia are doing the same here! I’m not agreeing with it, but making a counter argument as we all go on about Russian propaganda yet we’re not so different in the west!🤔

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

3 hours ago, Indy said:

Exactly, your still looking at it from one point of view! It’s not rational to say other countries can’t join other organisations but in the 60’s America did pretty much the same by stopping Russian missiles going to Cuba! So double standards there too! They prevented a country in aligning itself with Russian war equipment, could be said that Russia are doing the same here! I’m not agreeing with it, but making a counter argument as we all go on about Russian propaganda yet we’re not so different in the west!🤔

I don't think they're the same at all. One's joining a mutual defensive organisation, the other is actually moving equipment to threaten the USA. I think that's a big difference.

Even then, that doesn't change my key point, which was the last sentence in my previous post. That point is essentially "at what point is a principle going too far and when does it need to be particularly closely looked at?" 

And that, by definition, includes atonement for a country's past sins. The Germans have been role models in that regard when looking at dispassionate analysis of their role in WW2.

[Indy 3,300]

4 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

I don't think they're the same at all. One's joining a mutual defensive organisation, the other is actually moving equipment to threaten the USA. I think that's a big difference.

Even then, that doesn't change my key point, which was the last sentence in my previous post. That point is essentially "at what point is a principle going too far and when does it need to be particularly closely looked at?" 

And that, by definition, includes atonement for a country's past sins. The Germans have been role models in that regard when looking at dispassionate analysis of their role in WW2.

Agree, but I was trying to view it from an pro Russia mad leader point! 🤪

[Foxy2600 301]

Can’t we just keep it to one liners instead of these long protracted tomes?

Putin is a K@nt

The Moskva is at the bottom of the ocean

it is a war not a special military bumbling

the K@nt wants to kill as many Ukrainians as possible 

the K@nt is Hitler ressurected

 

[Herman 9,767]

 

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

On 15/04/2022 at 11:48, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

what is your interest in the Ukraine, apart from cheap fertilizers, wheat and some animal foods? They are not in NATO, despite their expansion into the east against their own word. There are some bio labs which shared their 'research' into all kinds of weaponry, with us/Porton Down, but that is it.

Will you make Putin stand down, or vote out the supporters of fascists here in this country? does your vote even count? is it not dis proportionally favouring the status quo of a two party oligarchy and a cheerful establishment?

I agree with your last paragraph and say that for exactly those reasons we should stop throwing petrol/arms into this cauldron, for we are prolonging the agony.

I do so love this brand of 'pacifism' that supports leaving victims of aggression defenceless so they can all be murdered much faster, allowing a return of 'peace'. I suppose everybody's very peaceful once they are dead, regardless of how it comes about.

It's tempting to start wondering if Putin will become the ultimate pacifist, push the nuclear button, resulting in the inevitable nuclear retaliation, bringing total peace to the whole world once the radioactive dust has settled everywhere and all human confrontation is rendered impossible on account of everybody being dead.

Give peace a chance. 🌻

Edited April 30, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[KiwiScot 1,443]

Turkey to veto nato expansion and mouthing off at Sweden and Finland reminding us that our important Nato ally is a bat**** dicator himself.

Positives - Less escalation.