England V Czechia

[TheGoogler 324]

Grand scheme of things, it's job done, but it's all a bit bland isn't it? 

Perhaps we are spoilt as fans of a club who employ a particular brand of pressing, attacking football but I do find England under Southgate a tough watch. 

Still, let's hope we start really performing as we get into the knock outs.

[Ken Hairy 3,780]

Job done, we're not conceding which is important, yes it's not very exciting but it doesn't need to be in tournaments we just need to win. Germany (probably) won't be so defensive minded as Czechs seemed to be which will allow us to counter more. 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

Mixed bag tonight. Overall encouraging and we look a real threat when attacking at pace on the front foot.

on the flip side, the midfield still doesn’t look great/right. Attacking wise it’s good but Rice and Phillips is not working (I thought it would to be fair) as I think they just both like to play in the same space and neither has the ability to turn with the ball and then take it forward when under pressure. 

[sgncfc 1,253]

England have been a tough watch for much of the last 25 years. We don't play like the same players do in the Premier league. I don't know why, but if we had to watch that turgid rubbish every week no one would bother. Individually we have fine players, but the style and tactics are just sooooooooooo boring compared to most other teams who will make up the last 16.

If we play like that and win every game 1-0 to win the tournament, who will actually care?

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Agree with others that I’m finding it a little soulless watching us at the minute. Sure, there were flashes tonight as there were against Croatia, but we never really seemed to maintain any pressure for more than a passage or two. Basically nothing to really get me out of my seat, it’s all just a bit meh. 

I know the game situation was different, but Scotland managed 19 shots against these, we managed just 5. I get being a bit pragmatic when we’re 1-0 up but do we really need to be THAT risk averse against the Czech Republic at home? What even happened in that second half other than the offside goal? 

Can you imagine Man City going 1-0 up at the Etihad against Southampton then playing how England did tonight? Would the Man City fans say ‘no problem it’s just the result that matters’ or would they wonder why their team didn’t play a bit more expansively? I know which I’d rather.

And the trouble is, with football this turgid Southgate is giving himself very little wiggle room if things go **** up. We will all take one-nil-ing our way to the trophy of course (sorry @sgncfc I think nearly everyone will disagree with you there), but anything less than that (or say at least the semis to be more reasonable) - then serious questions will start to be asked.

And it does in general feel a bit of a violation to be playing this way when we have a plethora of attacking talent. Are we really playing a system that gets the best out of our best players? Are we playing the best individual options we have available in each position?

Unless we find another gear then IMO we look pretty well set up to lose narrowly to France / Germany / Portugal. Sorry to be miserable but I just have zero faith in us going toe-to-toe with a big side and coming out on top. In fact I find it hard to believe anyone genuinely thinks we will progress past any such team - of course we can all hope.

Hope for Hungary to finish second….

[CirclePoint 205]

2 hours ago, sgncfc said:

England have been a tough watch for much of the last 25 years. We don't play like the same players do in the Premier league. I don't know why, but if we had to watch that turgid rubbish every week no one would bother. Individually we have fine players, but the style and tactics are just sooooooooooo boring compared to most other teams who will make up the last 16.

If we play like that and win every game 1-0 to win the tournament, who will actually care?

I agree 100% with your first paragraph.

However, as for winning the tournament with the current style of play…. yes please.

[Petriix 2,853]

3 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Agree with others that I’m finding it a little soulless watching us at the minute. Sure, there were flashes tonight as there were against Croatia, but we never really seemed to maintain any pressure for more than a passage or two. Basically nothing to really get me out of my seat, it’s all just a bit meh. 

I know the game situation was different, but Scotland managed 19 shots against these, we managed just 5. I get being a bit pragmatic when we’re 1-0 up but do we really need to be THAT risk averse against the Czech Republic at home? What even happened in that second half other than the offside goal? 

Can you imagine Man City going 1-0 up at the Etihad against Southampton then playing how England did tonight? Would the Man City fans say ‘no problem it’s just the result that matters’ or would they wonder why their team didn’t play a bit more expansively? I know which I’d rather.

And the trouble is, with football this turgid Southgate is giving himself very little wiggle room if things go **** up. We will all take one-nil-ing our way to the trophy of course (sorry @sgncfc I think nearly everyone will disagree with you there), but anything less than that (or say at least the semis to be more reasonable) - then serious questions will start to be asked.

And it does in general feel a bit of a violation to be playing this way when we have a plethora of attacking talent. Are we really playing a system that gets the best out of our best players? Are we playing the best individual options we have available in each position?

Unless we find another gear then IMO we look pretty well set up to lose narrowly to France / Germany / Portugal. Sorry to be miserable but I just have zero faith in us going toe-to-toe with a big side and coming out on top. In fact I find it hard to believe anyone genuinely thinks we will progress past any such team - of course we can all hope.

Hope for Hungary to finish second….

I think it's a reflection of England as a country. Other teams are more than the sum of their parts, but not England. The regressive, conservative attitude is exactly what we're seeing culturally and politically in society. And I'm sure we're about to recreate Brexit by crashing out of the tournament in disarray.

[duke63 545]

I love football as a sport but there is no way i would pay money to watch the boring rubbish England are currently serving up. Its meant to be entertainment.

Italia 90 and Euros 96 we played good open, entertaining football and could have won both.

If we won the Euros playing like this, then it would be a very sad day, frankly.

[wcorkcanary 4,337]

Even the 'highlights' were dull.

[Petriix 2,853]

4 hours ago, Petriix said:

I think it's a reflection of England as a country. Other teams are more than the sum of their parts, but not England. The regressive, conservative attitude is exactly what we're seeing culturally and politically in society. And I'm sure we're about to recreate Brexit by crashing out of the tournament in disarray.

The other thing that keeps coming round in my mind is how the players feel hearing the racists booing when they take the knee. I don't imagine it has a positive impact on the overall performance.

[Foxy2600 305]

23 minutes ago, Petriix said:

The other thing that keeps coming round in my mind is how the players feel hearing the racists booing when they take the knee. I don't imagine it has a positive impact on the overall performance.

Obviously click-bait but as you have to reply to your own posts I'll give it a go.....

Fans want to see sport. Not political statements in sport. So in your world, every fan who boos is a racist, every player who decides not to take the knee is a racist. Judging by your comments we can also include the 17.4 million - all racists. I have an English flag of St George outside my house for the duration of the tournament so I'm a racist too. Next we'll be banning Fivers.......

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,589]

England have really been hit by Kane's form nosediving at just the wrong moment. 

Kane is a world class striker and Southgate has sensibly built the England attack around him and his abilities, it just seems that Kane has forgotten all his abilities at the moment. Grealish, Sterling and Saka showed great movement around and behind Kane, but as he seems to have lost his touch and energy for the moment there was no one to link it all together. Get Kane back to his even close to his best and I think there could be a sudden improvement in the England attack. There were plenty of times last night where Pickford had played a great pass into him, but the ball just bounced off him or he got beaten by Kalas (a Championship defender). 

Felt Henderson improved the midfield a lot when he came on (no surprise as he is England's best central midfielder) and Maguire really helped as he can make those passes that break opposition lines.

With the players England have they may be more suited to playing better teams who will actually attack England more, it is a team build to counter attack, which was obviously an issue against Scotland who played a low block. There is a lot of positives around not having conceded a single goal so far, especially when England have coupled that with giving up very few chances to the opposition.

[BroadstairsR 2,202]

Agree on Kane .... I had it in my mind that he had had an injury problem prior to this tournament in a similar way to Pukki.

He is not yet the Kane we have come to know but he does seem to have improved that little bit, game upon game, as the team has progressed. So that's a positive.

A 'top of his game' Harry Kane is essential. A goal would help.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

8 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

England have really been hit by Kane's form nosediving at just the wrong moment. 

Kane is a world class striker and Southgate has sensibly built the England attack around him and his abilities, it just seems that Kane has forgotten all his abilities at the moment. Grealish, Sterling and Saka showed great movement around and behind Kane, but as he seems to have lost his touch and energy for the moment there was no one to link it all together. Get Kane back to his even close to his best and I think there could be a sudden improvement in the England attack. There were plenty of times last night where Pickford had played a great pass into him, but the ball just bounced off him or he got beaten by Kalas (a Championship defender). 

Felt Henderson improved the midfield a lot when he came on (no surprise as he is England's best central midfielder) and Maguire really helped as he can make those passes that break opposition lines.

With the players England have they may be more suited to playing better teams who will actually attack England more, it is a team build to counter attack, which was obviously an issue against Scotland who played a low block. There is a lot of positives around not having conceded a single goal so far, especially when England have coupled that with giving up very few chances to the opposition.

Agree about Henderson but found it strange he played the latter part on the right side. He is the boss man in midfield and I would prefer to see him in the middle.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,589]

5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Agree about Henderson but found it strange he played the latter part on the right side. He is the boss man in midfield and I would prefer to see him in the middle.

He was just moving into the space that was open.

As England went to a 4-3-3 then you'd want Bellingham and Henderson to move into those half spaces on the left and right to try and stretch the defense. Henderson is also a very good crosser of the ball, something he doesn't have to do much at Liverpool as it isn't their style, but with Harry Kane around then it could work out better for England. Liverpool's midfield operates in a very restrained way, without much movement away from the centre. Wijnaldum with the Netherlands looks a different player as he is allowed to roam more.

I presume England will go with Henderson and Rice starting in midfield for the next game, which will see him operate more centrally as part of a midfield two and primarily told to go box-to-box to move the ball through midfield - which with Philips and Rice became a bit stodgy against the Czechs. Some of England's best attacks came with a longer ball straight from defense or Pickford into the attackers. 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

I thought Phillips improved markedly once he was moved to be the only holding midfielder. I felt in the first half he dodn;t know where he was supposed to play as Rice was sitting in the positions he usually plays. I don;pt agree with Neville that nobody was mentioning the holding midfielders as a problem last night, I still thought they were. It was noticeable that the Czechs went man for man on them and pressed them when our defence had the ball and neither Rice or Phillips was abloe to turn with the ball and bring it out to beat the press. A better side might have a lot of joy against us employing the same tactics.

[TheGunnShow 5,993]

44 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

England have really been hit by Kane's form nosediving at just the wrong moment. 

Kane is a world class striker and Southgate has sensibly built the England attack around him and his abilities, it just seems that Kane has forgotten all his abilities at the moment. Grealish, Sterling and Saka showed great movement around and behind Kane, but as he seems to have lost his touch and energy for the moment there was no one to link it all together. Get Kane back to his even close to his best and I think there could be a sudden improvement in the England attack. There were plenty of times last night where Pickford had played a great pass into him, but the ball just bounced off him or he got beaten by Kalas (a Championship defender). 

Felt Henderson improved the midfield a lot when he came on (no surprise as he is England's best central midfielder) and Maguire really helped as he can make those passes that break opposition lines.

With the players England have they may be more suited to playing better teams who will actually attack England more, it is a team build to counter attack, which was obviously an issue against Scotland who played a low block. There is a lot of positives around not having conceded a single goal so far, especially when England have coupled that with giving up very few chances to the opposition.

Totally agreed, and those criticising the full-backs need to realise that the ball has to look like sticking up there for them to start their drives. Otherwise the opposition will easily get a counter to stick.

[Evil Monkey 52]

Kane seems to lack energy and I wonder if he's fully fit. I didn't see much of Spurs last season, but over the last few years they've always seemed to collapse in games they should be controlling, so I can't help but wonder whether their training regimes are up to the high-paced standards of the modern game?

[sgncfc 1,253]

1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

England have really been hit by Kane's form nosediving at just the wrong moment. 

Kane is a world class striker and Southgate has sensibly built the England attack around him and his abilities, it just seems that Kane has forgotten all his abilities at the moment. Grealish, Sterling and Saka showed great movement around and behind Kane, but as he seems to have lost his touch and energy for the moment there was no one to link it all together. Get Kane back to his even close to his best and I think there could be a sudden improvement in the England attack. There were plenty of times last night where Pickford had played a great pass into him, but the ball just bounced off him or he got beaten by Kalas (a Championship defender). 

Felt Henderson improved the midfield a lot when he came on (no surprise as he is England's best central midfielder) and Maguire really helped as he can make those passes that break opposition lines.

With the players England have they may be more suited to playing better teams who will actually attack England more, it is a team build to counter attack, which was obviously an issue against Scotland who played a low block. There is a lot of positives around not having conceded a single goal so far, especially when England have coupled that with giving up very few chances to the opposition.

I agree with the main point, but not with the "very few chances" given up to the opposition. Both Scotland and the Czech Republic had relatively easy goal scoring chances which they missed. Better teams won't miss them. Almost every time either of those sides came forward at pace we struggled and it ended up with a chance or a half chance. Pickford has made solid saves in both games but better chances have been missed by off target strikes. The clean sheets have been fortunate and our defence remains questionable, despite the way the team is set up. There was some pretty desperate hacking going on last night rather than any kind of control.

I also agree that we will step up against better opposition, but unless Southgate is braver we won't beat them

[Petriix 2,853]

3 hours ago, Foxy2600 said:

Obviously click-bait but as you have to reply to your own posts I'll give it a go.....

Fans want to see sport. Not political statements in sport. So in your world, every fan who boos is a racist, every player who decides not to take the knee is a racist. Judging by your comments we can also include the 17.4 million - all racists. I have an English flag of St George outside my house for the duration of the tournament so I'm a racist too. Next we'll be banning Fivers.......

Your ridiculous straw man argument has no relevance. Yes, booing when players are making an anti-racist gesture is objectively racist. No, players choosing not to take a knee are not necessarily racist, they're just exercising their free choice. 

No, voting for Brexit doesn't mean you're racist; although most racists will have voted leave, the vast majority of leave voters had other (in my opinion, misguided) reasons.

I'm sure there's likely to be a correlation between displaying an English flag and holding more extreme nationalistic views but the majority of people with flags are not racist.

But you already knew all that. You just need to pretend that I'm saying something that I'm not in order to attempt to devalue the truth of my statement. I wonder why it bothers you so?

[Foxy2600 305]

I wonder why it bothers you so?

It hardly bothers me at all. Just one of those (many) people who deplore political actions at sporting events - football or otherwise. I'm unfamiliar with the term Ridiculous Straw Man - along with Nuanced, Skin in the Game, Move the Needle and Boil the Ocean which are equally 'ridiculous' but I have no clue why.

[TheGunnShow 5,993]

There's a glorious irony in the Orban government complaining about sport and politics, bearing in mind Orban has done more than anyone in using football as a, ahem, political football.

[yellowrider120 783]

3 hours ago, Petriix said:

Your ridiculous straw man argument has no relevance. racYes, booing when players are making an anti-racist gesture is objectively racist. No, players choosing not to take a knee are not necessarily racist, they're just exercising their free choice. 

No, voting for Brexit doesn't mean you're racist; although most racists will have voted leave, the vast majority of leave voters had other (in my opinion, misguided) reasons.

I'm sure there's likely to be a correlation between displaying an English flag and holding more extreme nationalistic views but the majority of people with flags are not racist.

But you already knew all that. You just need to pretend that I'm saying something that I'm not in order to attempt to devalue the truth of my statement. I wonder why it bothers you so?

So, following your logic, those fans who booed taking the knee would pretty obviously boo when a black England player touched the ball would they not, or when the players name was announced or when said player was subbed. None of that happened. Your argument falls over I'm afraid. 

[king canary 7,666]

8 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

So, following your logic, those fans who booed taking the knee would pretty obviously boo when a black England player touched the ball would they not, or when the players name was announced or when said player was subbed. None of that happened. Your argument falls over I'm afraid. 

There is a lot of competition on this site but this might be the dumbest post ever.

'They can't be racist because they didn't boo black players touching the ball.' **** me.

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by king canary

[Midlands Yellow 4,071]

9 hours ago, duke63 said:

I love football as a sport but there is no way i would pay money to watch the boring rubbish England are currently serving up. Its meant to be entertainment.

Italia 90 and Euros 96 we played good open, entertaining football and could have won both.

If we won the Euros playing like this, then it would be a very sad day, frankly.

I wouldn’t go even if there was free bar. 

[Budapest Canary 152]

17 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

 

Hope for Hungary to finish second….

So do I.😉 Seems unlikely, but 

If France wins to face Switzerland in the next round,

If Germany would prefer to avoid a next round fixture at Wembley, and 

If we play 4-4-feckin'-2...

You never know. 

Hajrá! Magyarok! 

 

[Petriix 2,853]

3 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

So, following your logic, those fans who booed taking the knee would pretty obviously boo when a black England player touched the ball would they not, or when the players name was announced or when said player was subbed. None of that happened. Your argument falls over I'm afraid. 

What exactly is your agenda here? If you're genuinely curious about it then I suggest you ask a black person how it makes them feel when they hear these people booing. How do you imagine the black England players feel?

The reason why the racists continue with their vile behaviour is because they are able to hide behind the thin veil of pretending their boos are against a particular political group. And apologists like you are complicit.

Thankfully the boos are mostly drowned out by cheers and applause because decent people outnumber the thugs.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, Budapest Canary said:

So do I.😉 Seems unlikely, but 

If France wins to face Switzerland in the next round,

If Germany would prefer to avoid a next round fixture at Wembley, and 

If we play 4-4-feckin'-2...

You never know. 

Hajrá! Magyarok! 

 

Hi BC.

When I lived in NZ I played two seasons for Hungaria, a Wellington team of mostly ex pat Hungarians.

My team mates were Joe Bensig, Frankie Paape, Miki Siksai, Steve Nemeth, Tommy Farkas and one Atilla Varga who won a bronze medal at the 1960 Olympics.

[yellowrider120 783]

13 minutes ago, Petriix said:

What exactly is your agenda here? If you're genuinely curious about it then I suggest you ask a black person how it makes them feel when they hear these people booing. How do you imagine the black England players feel?

The reason why the racists continue with their vile behaviour is because they are able to hide behind the thin veil of pretending their boos are against a particular political group. And apologists like you are complicit.

Thankfully the boos are mostly drowned out by cheers and applause because decent people outnumber the thugs.

You are the one with the 'agenda' my friend as you decided to change the emphasis of this thread from a football discussion to a so called racist one. The usual left wing  vitriol drips from your keyboard. You know the language like 'racist', 'vile', 'thugs'. I'm more than happy to conduct a decent debate with you but not whilst you resort to that kind of tone.

 

[Petriix 2,853]

36 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

You are the one with the 'agenda' my friend as you decided to change the emphasis of this thread from a football discussion to a so called racist one. The usual left wing  vitriol drips from your keyboard. You know the language like 'racist', 'vile', 'thugs'. I'm more than happy to conduct a decent debate with you but not whilst you resort to that kind of tone.

 

I'm not your friend. And it's totally on topic. I think it's pretty obvious that the booing will be having a negative impact on the England team.

'Left wing vitriol' is a hilarious insult. As far as I can tell, being 'left wing' means that you want fairness, freedom and equality. There's no shame in wanting to end discrimination. There is shame in attempting to perpetuate it by, for example, booing people who oppose racisim or defending the behaviour of those who do.

If you're offended by my tone then perhaps it's time for you to reflect on your values. It's not too late. Your life would be happier if you were more compassionate.