Old Trafford protests

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

Ok, have done some research now........

American businessman in disingenuous statement shocker !!!

[sgncfc 1,227]

The BBC Gossip column today says that Man Utd are about to open contract negotiations with Paul Pogba starting at £400,000 a week. This for a player who turns up to play about a dozen times a year if you're lucky and other times looks like he's bored out of his skull to pull on that red shirt. 

The problems are player salaries, TV deals and VAR. Not billionaire owners, armchair fans in Asia or referees. Until those who are running the game realise that it will just keep getting worse.

Why should Pogba stop at £400,000 a week? Why not £5m a week? Or £20m a week?

It would be wonderful if we had an FA who were prepared to reset the game. I'm not hopeful.

[sonyc 5,518]

I'm sure many posters read articles on myfootballwriter but here is another view for those who haven't seen this.

In a complex subject, there is perhaps more than a grain of truth in this view too?

https://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/2021/05/03/man-utd-with-their-yellow-and-green-scarves-and-hankering-a-distant-heritage/

Edited May 3, 2021 by sonyc

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Its sad that a Policeman has been quite seriously hurt during all this. That is the consequence of not knowing exactly who is turning up to protest.

It is very difficult to assess protest without offending or sometimes injuring someone. As someone who organised a protest march as a Union Secretary, I have to confess that the march would have gone practically unnoticed if it hadn't have been for a few who started abusing the Police, who then pushed back and scuffles started. But it made the news and our point was put across but not by the method we preferred.

The Poll Tax riots were the only way Thatcher changed her mind. She got pressure from her own kind and did a U turn🙃

Yesterday was dramatically altered by the invasion and subsequent trouble. Everyone who doesn't even follow football now has an opinion. So to that end, what started off with the intention of being a peaceful protest, achieved its goal.

If that sounds wrong then explain how else protests succeed?

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

Quote

If football changes to the German model, Delia would have to give up control of the club. I for one would welcome the fans having the final say..

 

[Move Klose 303]

8 hours ago, Making Plans said:

When you have idiots like Perez at Real Madrid continuing to say that this Super League idea has not gone away then protests will continue.

Fans of the Clubs involved know that they cannot trust these owners who will undoubtably still be scheming something similar.

Havent the Italian FA now put in place where sides will be automatically kicked out of the league if they join a competition not backed by UEFA or FIFA. They still have Big clubs like Roma, Lazio, Napoli in the league aswell so could probably be in a position to go ahead without he others.

 

[nutty nigel 7,534]

26 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

 

If fans had the final say Farke would probably have been sacked in 2018, maybe Webber too, if they'd even been appointed in the first place. It's a sobering thought.

Going back to Kenny Foggo's days fans would probably have got rid of Ron Saunders in 1970.

 

[CirclePoint 200]

44 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

 

This would be a ‘no’ from me. I absolutely DO NOT want the fans to have a final say.

Unless there was a reality TV show so we could witness the clown based, animal farm circus that would place this club in a hand-basket with a one-way ticket to League One.

No thanks. I prefer people who know what they’re doing to be in charge. 

[alex_ncfc 662]

I think Man Utd fans are spot on here, and it's not a new thing or a reaction to the ESL - it's been going on since the Glazers arrived, as many didn't want them in the first place. I wonder though if Man Utd fans would swap having the Glazers for, say, being a midtable Prem team for many years, if it meant "having their club back"?

However, one thing about all this is, I can't help feeling if fans of a lower Prem club caused their game to be abandoned, the Premier League would be sanctioning them for it. Has there been any talks of fines or anything for Man Utd? Not that I've seen.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

57 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

If fans had the final say Farke would probably have been sacked in 2018, maybe Webber too, if they'd even been appointed in the first place. It's a sobering thought.

Going back to Kenny Foggo's days fans would probably have got rid of Ron Saunders in 1970.

 

If we want the 50+1 model and we want to reform football, then fans would have the final say. They might get it wrong but they would never allow a franchise non competitive model. Surely fans having the final say is the ideal way... Just saying what the United fans are demanding. In the long term it's absolutely the way forward if you want to restore football to the fans.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

16 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

If we want the 50+1 model and we want to reform football, then fans would have the final say. They might get it wrong but they would never allow a franchise non competitive model. Surely fans having the final say is the ideal way... Just saying what the United fans are demanding. In the long term it's absolutely the way forward if you want to restore football to the fans.

It's difficult to say Kenny because as far as I know football has never been in the hands of the fans. There's just been good owners and bad owners. Most of us fans would probably be bad owners if past opinions are anything to go by.

[CirclePoint 200]

28 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

If we want the 50+1 model and we want to reform football, then fans would have the final say. They might get it wrong but they would never allow a franchise non competitive model. Surely fans having the final say is the ideal way... Just saying what the United fans are demanding. In the long term it's absolutely the way forward if you want to restore football to the fans.

???

Fans having the final say is a romantic notion. First and foremost, a football club is a business that operates in the realm of entertainment. That is why smaller clubs are failing at the moment because they are losing out on game day revenue. I don’t see the fans of Kings Lynn chipping in to cover their running costs? How do you expect the fans to invest in a club when, let’s say, their contribution to a voting system to determine upgrades to the training ground is not on the ‘winning’ side?
 

Can you imagine if employees went on strike and demanded that they have the final say as to how ‘their’ company should operate?

Good lord........

Edited May 3, 2021 by CirclePoint

[CirclePoint 200]

14 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

It's difficult to say Kenny because as far as I know football has never been in the hands of the fans. There's just been good owners and bad owners. Most of us fans would probably be bad owners if past opinions are anything to go by.

There was one attempt that I know of, because I was a part of it for two seasons; Fleetwood Town. Not sure if it is still as such. Jamie Vardy played with Fleetwood and was sold to Leicester.
 

I bought into the fan-based ownership model and I have to say, it very quickly morphed into an animal farm scenario where some fans seemed to have more influence than others.

It took forever to make a decision on new nets at the training ground. Or, who can offer architectural work or ground maintenance free of charge.

Team selection was a nightmare. The manager hd to use the team line-up that the fans had voted on earlier in the week.

In the end it was a bunch of Football Manager game players, playing with professional athletes careers and livelihoods.

No thanks.

Edited May 3, 2021 by CirclePoint

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

7 minutes ago, CirclePoint said:

It took forever to make a decision on new nets at the training ground. Or, who can offer architectural work or ground maintenance free of charge.

Team selection was a nightmare. The manager hd to use the team line-up that the fans had voted on earlier in the week.

Is this true? How on earth did the Fleetwood Town manager cope? 

51% fan ownership shouldn't mean management decisions are put to the fans, that's not what ownership is about at all. 

Delia and Michael currently have no pull over decisions in regards to the training ground or facilities, no way would Webber allow it, and certainly not the team selection!

So if the fans were to take over their combined stake why would this change?

[nutty nigel 7,534]

27 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Is this true? How on earth did the Fleetwood Town manager cope? 

51% fan ownership shouldn't mean management decisions are put to the fans, that's not what ownership is about at all. 

Delia and Michael currently have no pull over decisions in regards to the training ground or facilities, no way would Webber allow it, and certainly not the team selection!

So if the fans were to take over their combined stake why would this change?

Of course it wouldn't change because of the success he's brought to our club.

The more relevant question would probably be would we have stuck.with Webber if the fans had taken over after that first season?

Or if the fans had taken over in 2017 would we have had Webber?

Or if the fans had taken over in 2009 would we have had McNally?

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by nutty nigel

[FCC 76]

I would imagine the Manchester United Supporters Trust don’t have membership of the majority of Manchester United fans.  Are they just led by a bunch of people who want to be “Big I ams” without putting any money in, or bringing any business or sporting acumen to the club?

I think we need proper regulation, a fairer distribution of money, and protection for all clubs. I wouldn’t want a load of thugs attacking the police, trespassing, and smashing things representing me on a clubs board though.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Well, FC United of Manchester are a membership outfit for a start, and they were created in protest at the Glazers taking over.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

2 hours ago, CirclePoint said:

???

Fans having the final say is a romantic notion. First and foremost, a football club is a business that operates in the realm of entertainment. That is why smaller clubs are failing at the moment because they are losing out on game day revenue. I don’t see the fans of Kings Lynn chipping in to cover their running costs? How do you expect the fans to invest in a club when, let’s say, their contribution to a voting system to determine upgrades to the training ground is not on the ‘winning’ side?
 

Can you imagine if employees went on strike and demanded that they have the final say as to how ‘their’ company should operate?

Good lord........

Germany’s 50+1 rule states that football clubs must hold a majority of their own voting rights. Members - the actual fans themselves - enjoy a 51% voting majority when it comes to any and all decisions. Commercial investors can make suggestions, but unless fans get behind them, nothing can happen.

 

 

An example of this would be Hannover's recent ousting of club president Martin Kind, who was forced to step down in 2019 after the then-Bundesliga club's 2,100 members voted to replace him. Kind was deemed to be too powerful by the fanbase, who took action to install a new supervisory board that they felt would have their best interests at heart. Kind remains the club's chief financial backer, but his ability to make big decisions has been reduced. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Surely the 50+1 is only ownership. Day to day running of the club is still in the hands of Directors and Coaches.

I don't think its left to fans to have a vote on the coaches future.

In the case of Manure supporters, the genuine ones were never ever happy with the Glazers and the ESL was the final straw.

The Glazers first desire is not for the team to win anything. Its to make money. They knew of the Manure world brand and they have exploited it.

I would not be very happy with an owner taking the pish at us.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187]

4 hours ago, CirclePoint said:

There was one attempt that I know of, because I was a part of it for two seasons; Fleetwood Town. Not sure if it is still as such. Jamie Vardy played with Fleetwood and was sold to Leicester.
 

I bought into the fan-based ownership model and I have to say, it very quickly morphed into an animal farm scenario where some fans seemed to have more influence than others.

It took forever to make a decision on new nets at the training ground. Or, who can offer architectural work or ground maintenance free of charge.

Team selection was a nightmare. The manager hd to use the team line-up that the fans had voted on earlier in the week.

In the end it was a bunch of Football Manager game players, playing with professional athletes careers and livelihoods.

No thanks.

Ebbsfleet United had a similar set up for a while 

[vos 155]

On 02/05/2021 at 20:06, FenwayFrank said:

I think that the Sky reporters are pretty keen to keep conversations about certain parts of this but not others. Jones came across like he was trying to make Gary Neville look like some sort of gang leader.

Not surprised that the Sky reporters are the leading critics of the Super League. Surely such a similar set up has been on the Sky long term agenda for some time. Bearing in mind our traditional Saturday afternoon out is quickly disappearing, but there is a "Sky Premier"  match on TV nearly every evening, I wonder who controls and influences the leading English Clubs !!!! Its all about money, money, money.

[CirclePoint 200]

4 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Is this true? How on earth did the Fleetwood Town manager cope? 

51% fan ownership shouldn't mean management decisions are put to the fans, that's not what ownership is about at all. 

Delia and Michael currently have no pull over decisions in regards to the training ground or facilities, no way would Webber allow it, and certainly not the team selection!

So if the fans were to take over their combined stake why would this change?

I voted every week to trust the manager's choice.

 

[sgncfc 1,227]

Which fans do you put in charge though? How do you select them? Do they still have to buy the shares and if so, what if they can't afford it? What if they lose interest? Could we buy most of 1p5wich and make them lose every game? Could Spurs fans buy us and use us as a feeder club?

Complete nightmare. We just need some common sense on finances with strict, agreed rules and sanctions for those who break them. Over time the playing field would start to level.

[king canary 7,606]

I do love that whenever someone suggests fan ownership/board level involvement people act as if this would mean a straw poll taken on the pinkun to make major decisions. Wilful ignorance. 

[nutty nigel 7,534]

On behalf of the willfully ignorant...

How would it work?

[Greavsy 2,413]

11 minutes ago, king canary said:

I do love that whenever someone suggests fan ownership/board level involvement people act as if this would mean a straw poll taken on the pinkun to make major decisions. Wilful ignorance. 

Surely thats a job for the elite. 

[anonamoose 4]

On 02/05/2021 at 08:23, Christoph Stiepermann said:

My problem with this is that it's utterly pointless. Why would the Glazers care? They're probably laughing about it right now. You want to really hit them then stop buying shirts, stop watching them, stop giving them any money. To billionaires like the Glazers those fans are nothing more than sources of revenue, they couldn't care less what they think, take that source away and it might make a difference. Live protests like this will do literally nothing but give their owners the higher ground to bleat on about breaking social distancing rules.

I actually think forcing a game to be postponed is a quite effective method of protest. As a one off all it does it draw attention to the problem, but multiple postponements and delays will cost the club money. This high profile game will now have to be played midweek with less of an audience so presumably worth less to everyone involved.

[CirclePoint 200]

5 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Ebbsfleet United had a similar set up for a while 

Thank you!!!!! I got my Fleets wrong!

That is the team I was thinking of. It was driving me crazy that I couldn’t find anything about it in the Fleetwood FC history.

Truly a wild experiment.

Shane Long was the forward that they sold.

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by CirclePoint

[ron obvious 1,502]

17 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Its sad that a Policeman has been quite seriously hurt during all this. That is the consequence of not knowing exactly who is turning up to protest.

It is very difficult to assess protest without offending or sometimes injuring someone. As someone who organised a protest march as a Union Secretary, I have to confess that the march would have gone practically unnoticed if it hadn't have been for a few who started abusing the Police, who then pushed back and scuffles started. But it made the news and our point was put across but not by the method we preferred.

The Poll Tax riots were the only way Thatcher changed her mind. She got pressure from her own kind and did a U turn🙃

Yesterday was dramatically altered by the invasion and subsequent trouble. Everyone who doesn't even follow football now has an opinion. So to that end, what started off with the intention of being a peaceful protest, achieved its goal.

If that sounds wrong then explain how else protests succeed?

Gandhi did pretty well.

[Herman 9,765]

39 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Gandhi did pretty well.

The Visigoths did better.