Aguero and the lines person (lady)

[Rich T The Biscuit 676]

I see there is uproar because he put his hand on her shoulder. 

Has the world gone completely mad, Hugill did the same to the ref but because its Aguero and a female official its now big news 🤷‍♂️

[The Real Buh 3,765]

It’s not news man. It’s become a meme that other rival fans went nuts over it. Aguero is mister nice guy.

[Thumbbass 367]

Tbh, motd focussed on it in the highlights footage which seemed weird as no comment was actually made, it seemed a nothing moment. Almost injected into the edit for the opposition to have something to be irritated about.

But, in these days of wiping goalposts and corner flags, no ballboys (or crowds for that matter) yada yada, it did seem at most, inappropriate. 

[Rich T The Biscuit 676]

8 minutes ago, Thumbbass said:

Tbh, motd focussed on it in the highlights footage which seemed weird as no comment was actually made, it seemed a nothing moment. Almost injected into the edit for the opposition to have something to be irritated about.

But, in these days of wiping goalposts and corner flags, no ballboys (or crowds for that matter) yada yada, it did seem at most, inappropriate. 

It would have been inappropriate had it been round her waste or he'd touched a part he shouldn't have, but round her shoulder 🤷‍♂️

Had it been a male official nothing would have been said about it. 

[Thumbbass 367]

COVID. No touchy. Regardless of genitalia.

[sgncfc 1,330]

I always thought putting a hand on an official was a red card, male or female. But because it's Aguero we'll let him off.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

4 hours ago, sgncfc said:

I always thought putting a hand on an official was a red card, male or female. But because it's Aguero we'll let him off.

Think that’s the letter of the law, SGNCFC. Though when that rule came about they probably only considered such an incident as an aggressive gesture rather than how Aguero was behaving. Think that’s why it appears he’s got away with it or whatever, but who knows, they may review it. 

[Rich T The Biscuit 676]

3 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

Think that’s the letter of the law, SGNCFC. Though when that rule came about they probably only considered such an incident as an aggressive gesture rather than how Aguero was behaving. Think that’s why it appears he’s got away with it or whatever, but who knows, they may review it. 

I think that might have come in after Di Canio pushed over the ref and the 2 things are completely different. 

As I said at the start, Hugill did it on Saturday after his goal so what's the difference. 

[Nuff Said 5,970]

24 minutes ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

I think that might have come in after Di Canio pushed over the ref and the 2 things are completely different. 

As I said at the start, Hugill did it on Saturday after his goal so what's the difference. 

For a start it was a man, not a woman, and men have always made use of their physically superior characteristics to dominate women. In this context, living in a society that is more aware of the difficulties some groups had - and some still - experience, it is not unreasonable to expect that men do not touch women uninvited if they don’t know them.

 

*** The section responding in advance to the inevitable responses ***

1. Obviously, not all men abuse women. I’m not talking about *you*, I’m talking about the frequent experience of many women with men. 

2. Just because you know a woman who says she likes being touched, that doesn’t mean ALL women are open to uninvited touch.

3. I don’t know any women who have been victims of full-scale abuse. But I have repeatedly heard pretty much every woman I know talk about being shouted at in aggressive, sexual way, propositioned, flashed at and worse. This is the every day experience of many women in society. Just because they haven’t told you, it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

4. Which is worse, being over-cautious, or being a little bit careful?

[cambridgeshire canary 7,800]

Shouldn't have laid hands on her obviously, but its hardly the big deal some people are making it out to be. Saw the video with the title 'Aguero grabs lineswoman by the neck!' Thinking he just straight up throttled her but no just lightly taps her shoulder

 

Talk about overreacting 

[king canary 8,758]

20 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

For a start it was a man, not a woman, and men have always made use of their physically superior characteristics to dominate women. In this context, living in a society that is more aware of the difficulties some groups had - and some still - experience, it is not unreasonable to expect that men do not touch women uninvited if they don’t know them.

 

*** The section responding in advance to the inevitable responses ***

1. Obviously, not all men abuse women. I’m not talking about *you*, I’m talking about the frequent experience of many women with men. 

2. Just because you know a woman who says she likes being touched, that doesn’t mean ALL women are open to uninvited touch.

3. I don’t know any women who have been victims of full-scale abuse. But I have repeatedly heard pretty much every woman I know talk about being shouted at in aggressive, sexual way, propositioned, flashed at and worse. This is the every day experience of many women in society. Just because they haven’t told you, it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

4. Which is worse, being over-cautious, or being a little bit careful?

The other context is that this was while he was aggressively disagreeing with a decision she'd made- which clearly changes the context.

I do think there has been a bit of an overreaction but at the same point there is a question if Aguero would have done that to a male linesman who he'd just been shouting at about a throw in.

[canarydan23 4,762]

33 minutes ago, king canary said:

The other context is that this was while he was aggressively disagreeing with a decision she'd made- which clearly changes the context.

I do think there has been a bit of an overreaction but at the same point there is a question if Aguero would have done that to a male linesman who he'd just been shouting at about a throw in.

Not that it really makes a difference, but she got the decision right as well. It touches his foot before all of the ball had crossed the line. Massey clearly did not like being touched and he shouldn't have done it. If there is to be a punishment then he has to take his medicine.

Edited October 19, 2020 by canarydan23

[wcorkcanary 4,784]

It is important for Men to remember that they have not experienced what many women have in everyday life. To have someone else dominate your physical space ,without invitation, as Aguero did , is unacceptable and unsettling for the recipient. Male or Female. 

 

[sgncfc 1,330]

21 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

It is important for Men to remember that they have not experienced what many women have in everyday life. To have someone else dominate your physical space ,without invitation, as Aguero did , is unacceptable and unsettling for the recipient. Male or Female. 

 

Absolutely this - "putting hands on" is an effort to dominate. It's the equivalent of the double hand shake in business terms or shaking hands at the same time as touching the shoulder or leading by the elbow. All of these body language things are attempts to dominate and influence. Should have had a red card, whatever he or anyone else thinks about "intention".

[Rich T The Biscuit 676]

20 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

It is important for Men to remember that they have not experienced what many women have in everyday life. To have someone else dominate your physical space ,without invitation, as Aguero did , is unacceptable and unsettling for the recipient. Male or Female. 

 

Men have been dominating other mens space for years in this game, how many times do we see a player eye ball a ref when they don't get a decision and nothing is done about it. 

I'm not for one second and haven't said he should have touched her, what I said is the uproar that's being made about it by the media is a bit extreme and had he done it to a man nothing would have been said. 

Having said that, if she puts a complaint in about him putting hands on her either from a personal space position (police matter) or as an official (FA matter) then yes by the letter of the law he should be punished in the same way as if a male official had done so. 

[Jerrykerry 223]

If some guy you barely knew at work but his hand on you like that would you brush it off? 

Now imagine you're female. 

Now imagine how times have changed. 

Now imagine it's a sport where you're not meant to touch the officials.

Thats why it's a big deal, and if you can't grasp that then you're stuck in the past and need to give your head a wobble. 

[lake district canary 4,831]

3 minutes ago, Jerrykerry said:

If some guy you barely knew at work but his hand on you like that would you brush it off? 

Now imagine you're female. 

Now imagine how times have changed. 

Now imagine it's a sport where you're not meant to touch the officials.

Thats why it's a big deal, and if you can't grasp that then you're stuck in the past and need to give your head a wobble. 

Have to agree with this. It made for uncomfortable viewing to say the least and the player should have known better.

[Rich T The Biscuit 676]

5 minutes ago, Jerrykerry said:

If some guy you barely knew at work but his hand on you like that would you brush it off? 

Now imagine you're female. 

Now imagine how times have changed. 

Now imagine it's a sport where you're not meant to touch the officials.

Thats why it's a big deal, and if you can't grasp that then you're stuck in the past and need to give your head a wobble. 

And again I'll say it again that I haven't said he should have put his hands on her nor should she accept it, my point is had he done that to a male official it wouldn't have been a story. 

Players physically putting hands on officials happens in a number of games every weekend and nothing gets said or done. 

As I said in the previous post, if she had a problem with it then I'm sure she has complained and he deserves what he gets.

[king canary 8,758]

1 minute ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

And again I'll say it again that I haven't said he should have put his hands on her nor should she accept it, my point is had he done that to a male official it wouldn't have been a story. 

Players physically putting hands on officials happens in a number of games every weekend and nothing gets said or done. 

As I said in the previous post, if she had a problem with it then I'm sure she has complained and he deserves what he gets.

I think the question is 'would he have done that to a male official?'

Difficult to say in my opinion- I've seen players touch referees during a discussion or once an issue is settled but I can't recall seeing a player, while remonstrating with a male linesman, put there hand somewhat aggressively on the back of their neck/shoulder. Could be wrong though.

[Rich T The Biscuit 676]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

I think the question is 'would he have done that to a male official?'

Difficult to say in my opinion- I've seen players touch referees during a discussion or once an issue is settled but I can't recall seeing a player, while remonstrating with a male linesman, put there hand somewhat aggressively on the back of their neck/shoulder. Could be wrong though.

And I guess this is where people see things in a different way, I didn't see that much aggression in what he did. 

Guess time will tell as to whether he gets done for it, if he does then that's for him to accept, if he doesn't then neither the FA or the lines person saw it as a problem. 

[ELYOUKAYEE 37]

Players will now take both knees before each game of football in order to highlight the ongoing and systemic hate crime that is misogyny towards females. 

[kirku 1,358]

2 hours ago, ELYOUKAYEE said:

Players will now take both knees before each game of football in order to highlight the ongoing and systemic hate crime that is misogyny towards females. 

Absolutely top notch social commentary here. Careful with this one, wit's so sharp you might get lacerations 

[......and Smith must score. 1,600]

She's the lino who was involved in all that hoo-ha with Andy Gray and Richard Keys back in the day.

#MeToo signing in the next window

 

 

[......and Smith must score. 1,600]

Never mind Aguero.......... castration is too good for this guy 😀😉

Edited October 19, 2020 by ......and Smith must score.

[shefcanary 2,955]

I learnt a valuable lesson on this topic at work about 15 years ago.  I chaired the monthly Staff briefing where we shared news about what everyone was doing in our organisation.  On one occasion a very junior colleague was presenting a piece on what her department was doing, but because she was nervous she was talking to the wall rather than presenting to colleagues (it was a crowd of about 60 so quite daunting for a relative newcomer).   I could see people in the audience were struggling to hear so I gently put a hand on her shoulder and turned her to face the audience, thinking it was better to do that than draw more attention to the situation.  Boy was I wrong!  Lots of accusations of sexism directed at me afterward, with hints of potential claims of harassment etc.  Thankfully an apology and explanation of my aim calmed the thing down, but looking back it was not a good look.  Would I have done it if it was a bloke?  That's the question I always ask if anywhere near a similar situation.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

39 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Never mind Aguero.......... castration is too good for this guy 😀😉

Looks like she enjoyed it to be honest, Smithy - from what I can see, it was a bit of a boob on his part but she didn’t try to milk it. That’ll teatch him though

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,791]

5 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Have to agree with this. It made for uncomfortable viewing to say the least and the player should have known better.

Agreed . I think Sian Massey's reaction says it all. Unwanted and uncalled for. 

[YellowYawner 6]

I think what he did needs to not happen again. The gender of the player or official is irrelevant, don't touch them.

But one thing I would throw in Aguero's defence is the question of "Would he do it to a man" for me is probably answered by "one who's a similar height and stature to Sian Massey-Ellis? Probably. I could imagine him doing something similar after a disagreement with the likes of Jamal Lewis or Max Aarons. The likes of Tim Krul? Not so much.

It hasn't happened much yet but I imagine eventually we will have a player yell a torrent of abuse at a female official and the question of "would he do it to a man" will be short lived, as theres countless examples of it happening. Doesn't make it right though, and while things have got better I feel it needs to keep going until the officials have a similar levels of respect those in rugby enjoy.

Man united players going crazy

Excuse the rather extreme example, terribly quality and music. But could you imagine this happening today?

For me intentionally touching the referee for anything but a hand shake at the end of the game should be a bookable offence.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

It was misguided on Aguero's part and not something you want to see in the game, but as much as I fully agree with any notion that hands stay to themselves (indeed - personally - I take puritanical lengths in this regard and if I am out with a lady I will always ask before initiating contact), I'm hesitant to see further action beyond something internal and communication of such taking place. Cards / fines / such punishment may be going too far.

As @YellowYawner rightly (IMO) noted, gender really should not be relevant. Keep your paws off the officials. Basta!

[Rich T The Biscuit 676]

1 hour ago, YellowYawner said:

I think what he did needs to not happen again. The gender of the player or official is irrelevant, don't touch them.

But one thing I would throw in Aguero's defence is the question of "Would he do it to a man" for me is probably answered by "one who's a similar height and stature to Sian Massey-Ellis? Probably. I could imagine him doing something similar after a disagreement with the likes of Jamal Lewis or Max Aarons. The likes of Tim Krul? Not so much.

It hasn't happened much yet but I imagine eventually we will have a player yell a torrent of abuse at a female official and the question of "would he do it to a man" will be short lived, as theres countless examples of it happening. Doesn't make it right though, and while things have got better I feel it needs to keep going until the officials have a similar levels of respect those in rugby enjoy.

Man united players going crazy

Excuse the rather extreme example, terribly quality and music. But could you imagine this happening today?

For me intentionally touching the referee for anything but a hand shake at the end of the game should be a bookable offence.

Agree with all of that, unfortunately the rule that came in was as a result of the Di Canio incident when he pushed a ref over in a rage and not for any player having a chat or debate with an official. 

I think there are cases when a card needs to come out and times when it doesn't, I used Hugill as an example as he had his arm round the ref having a chat, by the rules he should have been carded and that doesn't make any sense.