On a knife edge

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

I can never remember things feeling quite as on a knife edge than at present. 

Should we get off to a flyer and get promoted this season, or next having just missed out, then the “plan” will be said to have worked. All will be fine and dandy. And the refusal to spend will look wise. 
 

But should we struggle then the pressure will, I suspect, build quickly. Discontent will follow and the “plan” will look ridiculous. We will have ended up back at square one. The refusal to spend on promotion will look dumb

so which do you think it will be? 
Progress or regress this coming season?

[hogesar 10,763]

Is this any different to your "board are on thin ice" thread?

 

[Petriix 3,219]

We can't end up at square one: we had unsustainable spending commitments and were heading for financial ruin. Now that we have balanced the books, brought through lots of young talent, and instilled sensible player contracts, the worst case is that we become a self-sufficient mid-table Championship club. That's infinitely better than our position from 3 years ago. 

[ged in the onion bag 961]

Consider the training ground we have now, the Youngsters we have, the depth of competition we have, the value of our players and the financial situation we are in.   Where we are now as a business compared with 3 years ago.

It will only look silly if the fans are impatient and the club can do nothing about that.    The fans bought into this last season, proper fans (not idiots and glory hunters) stick with the club through thick and thin!    Time for patience for the next two seasons at least!   

[Bill 1,788]

8 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I can never remember things feeling quite as on a knife edge than at present. 

Should we get off to a flyer and get promoted this season, or next having just missed out, then the “plan” will be said to have worked. All will be fine and dandy. And the refusal to spend will look wise. 
 

But should we struggle then the pressure will, I suspect, build quickly. Disconte

have you reached 9000 season ticket sales yetnt will follow and the “plan” will look ridiculous. We will have ended up back at square one. The refusal to spend on promotion will look dumb

so which do you think it will be? 
Progress or regress this coming season?

good to see someone is keeping us updated on the goings on at poorman road

[Nuff Said 5,962]

I don't think it's that silly a question. I was thinking something similar, but it's more about Webber and Farke than the "project". This really is make or break season for them. If we don't at least make top six, that will be three poor seasons out of four, and 2018-19 will look like they just got lucky. I can't see many complaining if Webber leaves when he said he would then.

[wcorkcanary 4,784]

33 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I can never remember things feeling quite as on a knife edge than at present. 

Should we get off to a flyer and get promoted this season, or next having just missed out, then the “plan” will be said to have worked. All will be fine and dandy. And the refusal to spend will look wise. 
 

But should we struggle then the pressure will, I suspect, build quickly. Discontent will follow and the “plan” will look ridiculous. We will have ended up back at square one. The refusal to spend on promotion will look dumb

so which do you think it will be? 
Progress or regress this coming season?

Same old shoite, different wrapping paper.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

26 minutes ago, Petriix said:

We can't end up at square one: we had unsustainable spending commitments and were heading for financial ruin.

i hope you realise that we were last heading for financial ruin way back in 1996 according to Nutty and of course financial ruin is totally different to administration ? 😜

[Yellow and Green 352]

8 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I don't think it's that silly a question. I was thinking something similar, but it's more about Webber and Farke than the "project". This really is make or break season for them. If we don't at least make top six, that will be three poor seasons out of four, and 2018-19 will look like they just got lucky. I can't see many complaining if Webber leaves when he said he would then.

If we were to be realistic, finishing in the top two next season would be unlikely. Firstly, Bournmouth and Watford have more established squads (and will most likely outspend us). It is also common for relegated teams to miss out on promotion at the first time of asking. We have just lost 10 games in a row and our confidence has been drained.

Having said that, Webber seems pretty determined to make amends for last season.

I would be disappointed if we miss out next sesson but I wouldn't call for Webber/Farke to leave. We know that they would continue to develop the squad, build momentum and go again the following season. 

My concern would build if we are still in the Championship when Webber leaves. The next appointment would be crucial and we can only hope that it's not another Doomcaster or Moxley.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

6 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

If we were to be realistic, finishing in the top two next season would be unlikely. Firstly, Bournmouth and Watford have more established squads (and will most likely outspend us). It is also common for relegated teams to miss out on promotion at the first time of asking. We have just lost 10 games in a row and our confidence has been drained.

Having said that, Webber seems pretty determined to make amends for last season.

I would be disappointed if we miss out next sesson but I wouldn't call for Webber/Farke to leave. We know that they would continue to develop the squad, build momentum and go again the following season. 

My concern would build if we are still in the Championship when Webber leaves. The next appointment would be crucial and we can only hope that it's not another Doomcaster or Moxley.

I think you might be taking it for granted about Bournemouth and Watford's squads being anything like they are now.

And even if we don't go straight back up, if we introduce the new lads and show some promise then I would be content to wait for the season after to see a go for the title.

[A Load of Squit 6,260]

Next in this series;

Is this a watershed moment?

How many games will you give Farke?

When will we see the 'new' Norwich City?

Is having a plan B enough?

We wasted the parachute payments.

Will the Boards luck run out?

When we have a blip will we be able to recover?

Have we benefitted from being in the worst Championship for a decade?

[Yellow and Green 352]

14 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think you might be taking it for granted about Bournemouth and Watford's squads being anything like they are now.

And even if we don't go straight back up, if we introduce the new lads and show some promise then I would be content to wait for the season after to see a go for the title.

For sure, the above applies to Bournemouth and Watford too - especially consodering neither of them currently have a manager.

The Championship is full of clubs who expected to bounce straight back up. We are one of the few who are sensible enough not to spend all of their money (and some) in desperation of doing so. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

1 hour ago, Petriix said:

We can't end up at square one: we had unsustainable spending commitments and were heading for financial ruin. Now that we have balanced the books, brought through lots of young talent, and instilled sensible player contracts, the worst case is that we become a self-sufficient mid-table Championship club. That's infinitely better than our position from 3 years ago. 

Once parachute is gone this would change quite quickly. Without promotions this club quickly finds itself staring down not up - as the situation when the plan began highlighted. Too quickly have people forgotten that we massively overachieved with players who were actually recruited cheaply to stave off relegation 

[Nuff Said 5,962]

10 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Once parachute is gone this would change quite quickly. Without promotions this club quickly finds itself staring down not up - as the situation when the plan began highlighted. Too quickly have people forgotten that we massively overachieved with players who were actually recruited cheaply to stave off relegation 

Putting to one side the fact that you appear to have used Yoda to transcribe your post ("too quickly have people forgotten"), you have no evidence for this other than past history, and there are many indications that the club is being run sensibly enough that we are using parachute payments as a boost, not a desperate throw of the dice. Admittedly, the proof can't be seen unless we fail to go back up in the next two years, but it seems pretty clear to me that balancing the budget is a priority for the current management.

[Nuff Said 5,962]

1 hour ago, Yellow and Green said:

If we were to be realistic, finishing in the top two next season would be unlikely. Firstly, Bournmouth and Watford have more established squads (and will most likely outspend us). It is also common for relegated teams to miss out on promotion at the first time of asking. We have just lost 10 games in a row and our confidence has been drained.

Having said that, Webber seems pretty determined to make amends for last season.

I would be disappointed if we miss out next sesson but I wouldn't call for Webber/Farke to leave. We know that they would continue to develop the squad, build momentum and go again the following season. 

My concern would build if we are still in the Championship when Webber leaves. The next appointment would be crucial and we can only hope that it's not another Doomcaster or Moxley.

Being realistic, no-one expected to win the Championship under Webber/Farke after their first season. History counts for very little. But unless we make a decent fist of the coming season, their record won't be good.

 

Do I think we will do well? Yes, on balance I do.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,791]

58 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

i hope you realise that we were last heading for financial ruin way back in 1996 according to Nutty and of course financial ruin is totally different to administration ? 😜

It’s time to be pedantic. In 2008-9 following relegation the club had debts with the bank and with Axa. I’m sure there were others too. 

Relegation caused a line in the sand of a deteriorating financial position where the club and their current repayments of the debt became a concern . The concern was serious enough for the calling of meetings where the club was invited to put a case to the creditors . At this time the creditors had sufficient cause to instigate an administration process as they were a qualifying charge holder. Here we can safely use the phrase “the threat of administration” because the creditors could have insisted on the appointment of an insolvency practitioner.  

Would the bank have carried this through ? We will never know . Would Axa? Again not known. What we do know is that Alan Bowkett acceded to the role of chief negotiator  and many people will tell you that this was seen as positive if not essential to the validity of the rescheduling of the debt repayments. Alan Bowkett had the necessary kudos. 
 

Axa rescheduled at five percent flat rate for the duration of the debt . Also the undertaking of immediate payment if NCFC returned to the Premier League (a tall order at the time) 

The Administration that we “came close to” (to keep the Happy Clappers happy )was lead by creditors as opposed to a CVA the sort that Sheepshanks took the Binners into - because he had brought players like Finiddi George without knowing how old he was and ran out of money  - at the time a risk free alternative as there were no points deductions. 
 

 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

22 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Once parachute is gone this would change quite quickly. Without promotions this club quickly finds itself staring down not up - as the situation when the plan began highlighted. Too quickly have people forgotten that we massively overachieved with players who were actually recruited cheaply to stave off relegation 

What happened last time parachute payments were gone?

[nutty nigel 7,902]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

i hope you realise that we were last heading for financial ruin way back in 1996 according to Nutty and of course financial ruin is totally different to administration ? 😜

According to you we are perpetually heading for financial ruin. Time and time again we don't get there. That makes me think it's wishful thinking. But maybe this time...

[Surfer 1,547]

29 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Too quickly have people forgotten that we massively overachieved with players who were actually recruited cheaply to stave off relegation 

Eh? I think we were working within a budget and trying to improve on 12th as a finishing position. 

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

I would say that financially we took a far more palatable medicine and refocused on youth development, and it's done us a power of good when we take everything into consideration over the last three years. We had a spell in the 1990s where we were pretty good at bringing youth along, and then it faded away somewhat when we went the tried-and-tested route in the Championship with the corresponding wage bill. The surprise Championship win, garnished with three regulars who were straight out of the youth team, and Cantwell who was almost a regular then, garnered a hell of a lot of goodwill as it came far faster than anyone could have expected. Not to mention, how many Championship-winning sides could say that about their teams nowadays??

I do think people are allowing the poor, indeed dreadful, run of form after the lockdown to overly influence their judgement. Sure, everyone's had the lockdown, but not everyone's had a lockdown and come back with half a defence missing after recovering from injury. For me, the expectations became a bit unrealistic after we went up, then the litany of defensive injuries really wrecked any chance we had.

So, apologies to the OP, but I cannot accept this notion that the whole project is on a knife-edge. I maintain this is a side-effect of unrealistic expectations. Although I'll reserve the right to be a shade more critical if we don't get another centre-half in (or indeed if Famewo does not show enough, I strongly suspect Farke's going to do to him what he did with Matthews in that he'll get the pre-season to show what he can do, and if it doesn't look quite like it's going to stick, get someone else in).

I'd also say, we look financially in a far better position than many in the Championship - the latest with Sheffield Wednesday should show why. Such prudence could well come back with quicker returns this season than we would expect.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

33 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

According to you we are perpetually heading for financial ruin. Time and time again we don't get there. That makes me think it's wishful thinking. But maybe this time...

By perpetually you mean 2009 and again when Webber pitched up. I have told you a million times not to exaggerate.

Edited August 3, 2020 by TIL 1010

[norfolkngood 1,174]

5 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

By perpetually you mean 2009 and again when Webber pitched up. I have told you a million times not to exaggerate.

Financial ruin or Delia Forced to sell up as she needed a New Investor / Owner ??

Not many clubs Disappear Most owners sell up or are taken over when they can not afford to Keep the club afloat 

[hogesar 10,763]

9 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I have told you a million times not to exaggerate.

You done that on purpose didn't you!

[nutty nigel 7,902]

2 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Financial ruin or Delia Forced to sell up as she needed a New Investor / Owner ??

Not many clubs Disappear Most owners sell up or are taken over when they can not afford to Keep the club afloat 

Not many clubs keep going to hell in a handcart only to find they have the wherewithall to turn it around.

 

[Hardhouse44 289]

3 hours ago, Petriix said:

We can't end up at square one: we had unsustainable spending commitments and were heading for financial ruin. Now that we have balanced the books, brought through lots of young talent, and instilled sensible player contracts, the worst case is that we become a self-sufficient mid-table Championship club. That's infinitely better than our position from 3 years ago. 

Rubbish. We’re only self sufficient whilst we have assets to sell. If in couple of season after selling this current crop we haven’t signed the right assets. i.e. to many Duda’s rather than Buendia’s and we’re back in the clarts. 
 

 

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Rubbish. We’re only self sufficient whilst we have assets to sell. If in couple of season after selling this current crop we haven’t signed the right assets. i.e. to many Duda’s rather than Buendia’s and we’re back in the clarts.

oh dear, you don't quite grasp what self-sufficient means

it is not survival by funding through player sales

it is about remaining competitive without having to run up debts through player purchases

that our developing of our own players at low cost will see them move on is a bonus.... not a necessity

[Canary Wundaboy 1,423]

3 hours ago, Yellow and Green said:

If we were to be realistic, finishing in the top two next season would be unlikely. Firstly, Bournmouth and Watford have more established squads (and will most likely outspend us). It is also common for relegated teams to miss out on promotion at the first time of asking. We have just lost 10 games in a row and our confidence has been drained

Having surrended our EPL position so readily the minimum expectation has to be top 6. Anything below that and we're not even meeting the board's risible "Top 26" aim, which after 1 season of winning the Champs and one season banking money from an EPL season will be unacceptable to many I'd wager. 

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

By perpetually you mean 2009 and again when Webber pitched up. I have told you a million times not to exaggerate.

That’s never happenin🙃

[Kenny Foggo 1,194]

Anything less than top 26 will be unacceptable...🤤😜

[ged in the onion bag 961]

3 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

I don't think it's that silly a question. I was thinking something similar, but it's more about Webber and Farke than the "project". This really is make or break season for them. If we don't at least make top six, that will be three poor seasons out of four, and 2018-19 will look like they just got lucky. I can't see many complaining if Webber leaves when he said he would then.

your first 3 words were enough there.   

there's a much bigger picture and they deserve some slack.... some football fans are extremely fickle.