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Keith Scott

Farke is a fraud

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4 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

It took the Southampton Manager 45 minutes to figure out how to win the game.

And let's be honest, he's not one the the best Managers in the World.

Meanwhile Farke is sat on his hands doing sweet FA to change things when everyone & his his brother could see it wasn't working.

Then, in true Farke style, he waited 15 minutes after we were 2-0 down before even thinking about how to get back into the game.

By which time it was too late because everybody knows that when we go behind we don't come back.

A total lack of understanding of what was going on, or in our case, what was not going on.

Can he not see what we all saw or is he too damn stubborn for the good of this Club

Don't get me wrong, I think we all agree he leaves it too long to make subs. But I'd say that part of that is his limited options.

Can I be a pain and ask you directly; do you think if we had someone else (and anyone else within reason) as manager but with the same squad, that we would be clear and safe of trouble? 

I just think it's harsh to blame farke. I know it's kind of why they get paid so they take the blame when things go wrong, but they can only put out what they are given?

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1 minute ago, NeymarSmith said:

Can I be a pain and ask you directly; do you think if we had someone else (and anyone else within reason) as manager but with the same squad, that we would be clear and safe of trouble?

Probably

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Daniel Farke isn’t a fraud! Stuart Webber isn’t a fraud! The players aren’t frauds!

The owners are frauds desperately clinging onto ownership of the club without the means to take it forward!

For the greater good, please please step aside

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A combination of all to blame for today's pathetic steaming turd of a performance I think.

  • The owners haven't provided enough funding to be competitive in the top flight. I'm 100% on board with not overspending and throwing money around like Villa or Fulham, but it was very clear we needed more investment in the summer and they didn't deliver. Ever since we got promoted it's felt at times like going back down and having another go at the Championship next year was almost the target, not a worst-case scenario. 
  • Webber's first team recruitment this year has been poor. Yes, hampered by the lack of transfer budget; Yes, our investment in young talents for the future will most likely prove extremely valuable in the next couple of years - Unearthing rough diamonds seems to be what he's good at - but Byram and possibly Duda and Amadou aside, the first team additions haven't been anywhere near good enough. It was painfully clear to more or less every single supporter that we needed another centre back, and Webber's constant refusal to hold his hands up and admit he made a mistake there makes it hard to take. 
  • Farke has done wonders in getting us where we are today and I have a huge amount of time for him. But he never, ever has a plan B. We've been shown up time and time again this season and when things don't work, we just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over and over again instead of trying something new. Partly he's limited by the players he has to work with, but it seems clear that it's also partially down to his inflexibility and rigid faith in a system that we just don't have the squad for at this level. That's something he has GOT to work on if he's going to make it as a top coach. 
  • The coaching staff clearly hadn't done their jobs properly in getting the squad back to fitness. Obviously circumstances were difficult and there's been limited options for training, but Southampton clearly managed to get their players something close to fit - Half our team looked as if they hadn't moved at anything more than a leisurely jog since mid March. 
  • The players - with the exception of Krul, who's easily player of the season IMHO, and to some extent Emi and Pukki - didn't show up today. It was embarrassing and pathetic - Farke talks about how everyone needs to give their all for the cause but clearly some of the players weren't listening, or are just there to pick up their paychecks. Probably Godfrey's worst performance for us? Klose looks exactly like a man who's not played competitive football for over a year. Trybull and MacLean proved that while they may be genuinely lovely people off the pitch, neither of them are close to being Premier League quality footballers. Drmic  offered us nothing today and I can't see any reason to give him another start this season when Idah could be gaining experience in that time. 

    I guess what I'm suggesting is there's no point everyone on this thread arguing about who's to blame for that shambles when the answer is 'All of them'!
Edited by andyc24_uk
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7 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

I said to Mrs Boadicea, at least I am sitting on the sofa in the comfort of my own home and not having to fight my way through the traffic......

 

I left early......

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13 minutes ago, Van wink said:

He did it last season, and brought through our young guys who will make us loads a money over the “summer” 

Only Aaron's will make us loads of money no one else.

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7 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

Probably

Hmm. Really though? 

 

For those who blame farke, here's a scenario.

 

We get rid of farke. Who do you want instead who can do better?

And if hypothetically, we could do back to October, and get rid of farke, who are you appointing who could do better. 

 

They still have the same players and financial restraints

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3 minutes ago, NeymarSmith said:

Hmm. Really though? 

 

For those who blame farke, here's a scenario.

 

We get rid of farke. Who do you want instead who can do better?

And if hypothetically, we could do back to October, and get rid of farke, who are you appointing who could do better. 

 

They still have the same players and financial restraints

That's not a shot at you either fella, you make some good points but I just disagree with you that the buck stops with Webber or farke.

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Oh wow this is more tragic than the usual pathetic meltdowns from the same select group of fans.

First up we have Primary-School-Level Til, who has to randomly quote something nothing to do with me and with a childish demeanour point in my direction with a "Hoggy rates Drmic TVB" like anyone actually gives a fck about my opinion anyway.

Then we have Delia out because we lost today but none of you could be bothered to vaguely do anything about it - heck you cant even be consistent on it yourselves for the love of god.

Then to finish it off we have Farke is a fraud because we lost today. He got it massively wrong today in my book but I understand him trying to give it a go with two up front - probably hoping the ball might stick a bit better and relieve a limited defence with 3 young players and one in Klose who's barely played in a year or so. Disappointed he didnt change it but hardly anywhere near a fraud.

The worst thing is it's all the same people who chucked abuse at anyone who was vaguely optimistic about last season - and having been proven so emphatically wrong they cant see past their massive egos to take a step back.

 

Footballs back guys! 😂

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3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Oh wow this is more tragic than the usual pathetic meltdowns from the same select group of fans.

First up we have Primary-School-Level Til, who has to randomly quote something nothing to do with me and with a childish demeanour point in my direction with a "Hoggy rates Drmic TVB" like anyone actually gives a fck about my opinion anyway.

Then we have Delia out because we lost today but none of you could be bothered to vaguely do anything about it - heck you cant even be consistent on it yourselves for the love of god.

Then to finish it off we have Farke is a fraud because we lost today. He got it massively wrong today in my book but I understand him trying to give it a go with two up front - probably hoping the ball might stick a bit better and relieve a limited defence with 3 young players and one in Klose who's barely played in a year or so. Disappointed he didnt change it but hardly anywhere near a fraud.

The worst thing is it's all the same people who chucked abuse at anyone who was vaguely optimistic about last season - and having been proven so emphatically wrong they cant see past their massive egos to take a step back.

 

Footballs back guys! 😂

hogesar in having a go at fans shocker ! Anyway was it not you the other day then posting that Drmic is a good player ?

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29 minutes ago, andyc24_uk said:

A combination of all to blame for today's pathetic steaming turd of a performance I think.

  • The owners haven't provided enough funding to be competitive in the top flight. I'm 100% on board with not overspending and throwing money around like Villa or Fulham, but it was very clear we needed more investment in the summer and they didn't deliver. Ever since we got promoted it's felt at times like going back down and having another go at the Championship next year was almost the target, not a worst-case scenario. 
  • Webber's first team recruitment this year has been poor. Yes, hampered by the lack of transfer budget; Yes, our investment in young talents for the future will most likely prove extremely valuable in the next couple of years - Unearthing rough diamonds seems to be what he's good at - but Byram and possibly Duda and Amadou aside, the first team additions haven't been anywhere near good enough. It was painfully clear to more or less every single supporter that we needed another centre back, and Webber's constant refusal to hold his hands up and admit he made a mistake there makes it hard to take. 
  • Farke has done wonders in getting us where we are today and I have a huge amount of time for him. But he never, ever has a plan B. We've been shown up time and time again this season and when things don't work, we just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over and over again instead of trying something new. Partly he's limited by the players he has to work with, but it seems clear that it's also partially down to his inflexibility and rigid faith in a system that we just don't have the squad for at this level. That's something he has GOT to work on if he's going to make it as a top coach. 
  • The coaching staff clearly hadn't done their jobs properly in getting the squad back to fitness. Obviously circumstances were difficult and there's been limited options for training, but Southampton clearly managed to get their players something close to fit - Half our team looked as if they hadn't moved at anything more than a leisurely jog since mid March. 
  • The players - with the exception of Krul, who's easily player of the season IMHO, and to some extent Emi and Pukki - didn't show up today. It was embarrassing and pathetic - Farke talks about how everyone needs to give their all for the cause but clearly some of the players weren't listening, or are just there to pick up their paychecks. Probably Godfrey's worst performance for us? Klose looks exactly like a man who's not played competitive football for over a year. Trybull and MacLean proved that while they may be genuinely lovely people off the pitch, neither of them are close to being Premier League quality footballers. Drmic  offered us nothing today and I can't see any reason to give him another start this season when Idah could be gaining experience in that time. 

    I guess what I'm suggesting is there's no point everyone on this thread arguing about who's to blame for that shambles when the answer is 'All of them'!

The most balanced, well thought out, and spot on assessment of that match and our position I've read on this forum (although I personally thought Emi was poor tonight).

Bravo. 

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2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

hogesar in having a go at fans shocker ! Anyway was it not you the other day then posting that Drmic is a good player ?

Yep. But so did 3 or 4 other posters. So why did you refer to me, I wonder? Was it because I'm just so much more memorable to you? I am flattered.

Was gonna mention 'Sloughbottom Park' Srbeny but dont think I need to.

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Farke is a fraud.what a great team to support .we got Godfrey trybull and drmic.nobody is scoring goals,were going down , the greatest in east Anglia (not saying much though) goodnite..😭

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33 minutes ago, andyc24_uk said:

A combination of all to blame for today's pathetic steaming turd of a performance I think.

  • The owners haven't provided enough funding to be competitive in the top flight. I'm 100% on board with not overspending and throwing money around like Villa or Fulham, but it was very clear we needed more investment in the summer and they didn't deliver. Ever since we got promoted it's felt at times like going back down and having another go at the Championship next year was almost the target, not a worst-case scenario. 
  • Webber's first team recruitment this year has been poor. Yes, hampered by the lack of transfer budget; Yes, our investment in young talents for the future will most likely prove extremely valuable in the next couple of years - Unearthing rough diamonds seems to be what he's good at - but Byram and possibly Duda and Amadou aside, the first team additions haven't been anywhere near good enough. It was painfully clear to more or less every single supporter that we needed another centre back, and Webber's constant refusal to hold his hands up and admit he made a mistake there makes it hard to take. 
  • Farke has done wonders in getting us where we are today and I have a huge amount of time for him. But he never, ever has a plan B. We've been shown up time and time again this season and when things don't work, we just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over and over again instead of trying something new. Partly he's limited by the players he has to work with, but it seems clear that it's also partially down to his inflexibility and rigid faith in a system that we just don't have the squad for at this level. That's something he has GOT to work on if he's going to make it as a top coach. 
  • The coaching staff clearly hadn't done their jobs properly in getting the squad back to fitness. Obviously circumstances were difficult and there's been limited options for training, but Southampton clearly managed to get their players something close to fit - Half our team looked as if they hadn't moved at anything more than a leisurely jog since mid March. 
  • The players - with the exception of Krul, who's easily player of the season IMHO, and to some extent Emi and Pukki - didn't show up today. It was embarrassing and pathetic - Farke talks about how everyone needs to give their all for the cause but clearly some of the players weren't listening, or are just there to pick up their paychecks. Probably Godfrey's worst performance for us? Klose looks exactly like a man who's not played competitive football for over a year. Trybull and MacLean proved that while they may be genuinely lovely people off the pitch, neither of them are close to being Premier League quality footballers. Drmic  offered us nothing today and I can't see any reason to give him another start this season when Idah could be gaining experience in that time. 

    I guess what I'm suggesting is there's no point everyone on this thread arguing about who's to blame for that shambles when the answer is 'All of them'!

Fantastic summary- nobody has covered themselves in glory this season. This doesn't mean we now have too chuck out Farke, Webber and the squad but they are going to need to show they've learned next season.

Farke arguably has the biggest test- he'll have a squad that will be packed full of Championship winners but getting them focused, confident and coherent again won't be simple.

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49 minutes ago, andyc24_uk said:

A combination of all to blame for today's pathetic steaming turd of a performance I think.

  • The owners haven't provided enough funding to be competitive in the top flight. I'm 100% on board with not overspending and throwing money around like Villa or Fulham, but it was very clear we needed more investment in the summer and they didn't deliver. Ever since we got promoted it's felt at times like going back down and having another go at the Championship next year was almost the target, not a worst-case scenario. 
  • Webber's first team recruitment this year has been poor. Yes, hampered by the lack of transfer budget; Yes, our investment in young talents for the future will most likely prove extremely valuable in the next couple of years - Unearthing rough diamonds seems to be what he's good at - but Byram and possibly Duda and Amadou aside, the first team additions haven't been anywhere near good enough. It was painfully clear to more or less every single supporter that we needed another centre back, and Webber's constant refusal to hold his hands up and admit he made a mistake there makes it hard to take. 
  • Farke has done wonders in getting us where we are today and I have a huge amount of time for him. But he never, ever has a plan B. We've been shown up time and time again this season and when things don't work, we just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over and over again instead of trying something new. Partly he's limited by the players he has to work with, but it seems clear that it's also partially down to his inflexibility and rigid faith in a system that we just don't have the squad for at this level. That's something he has GOT to work on if he's going to make it as a top coach. 
  • The coaching staff clearly hadn't done their jobs properly in getting the squad back to fitness. Obviously circumstances were difficult and there's been limited options for training, but Southampton clearly managed to get their players something close to fit - Half our team looked as if they hadn't moved at anything more than a leisurely jog since mid March. 
  • The players - with the exception of Krul, who's easily player of the season IMHO, and to some extent Emi and Pukki - didn't show up today. It was embarrassing and pathetic - Farke talks about how everyone needs to give their all for the cause but clearly some of the players weren't listening, or are just there to pick up their paychecks. Probably Godfrey's worst performance for us? Klose looks exactly like a man who's not played competitive football for over a year. Trybull and MacLean proved that while they may be genuinely lovely people off the pitch, neither of them are close to being Premier League quality footballers. Drmic  offered us nothing today and I can't see any reason to give him another start this season when Idah could be gaining experience in that time. 

    I guess what I'm suggesting is there's no point everyone on this thread arguing about who's to blame for that shambles when the answer is 'All of them'!

Great summarizing respect.😬

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1 hour ago, andyc24_uk said:

A combination of all to blame for today's pathetic steaming turd of a performance I think.

  • The owners haven't provided enough funding to be competitive in the top flight. I'm 100% on board with not overspending and throwing money around like Villa or Fulham, but it was very clear we needed more investment in the summer and they didn't deliver. Ever since we got promoted it's felt at times like going back down and having another go at the Championship next year was almost the target, not a worst-case scenario. 
  • Webber's first team recruitment this year has been poor. Yes, hampered by the lack of transfer budget; Yes, our investment in young talents for the future will most likely prove extremely valuable in the next couple of years - Unearthing rough diamonds seems to be what he's good at - but Byram and possibly Duda and Amadou aside, the first team additions haven't been anywhere near good enough. It was painfully clear to more or less every single supporter that we needed another centre back, and Webber's constant refusal to hold his hands up and admit he made a mistake there makes it hard to take. 
  • Farke has done wonders in getting us where we are today and I have a huge amount of time for him. But he never, ever has a plan B. We've been shown up time and time again this season and when things don't work, we just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over and over again instead of trying something new. Partly he's limited by the players he has to work with, but it seems clear that it's also partially down to his inflexibility and rigid faith in a system that we just don't have the squad for at this level. That's something he has GOT to work on if he's going to make it as a top coach. 
  • The coaching staff clearly hadn't done their jobs properly in getting the squad back to fitness. Obviously circumstances were difficult and there's been limited options for training, but Southampton clearly managed to get their players something close to fit - Half our team looked as if they hadn't moved at anything more than a leisurely jog since mid March. 
  • The players - with the exception of Krul, who's easily player of the season IMHO, and to some extent Emi and Pukki - didn't show up today. It was embarrassing and pathetic - Farke talks about how everyone needs to give their all for the cause but clearly some of the players weren't listening, or are just there to pick up their paychecks. Probably Godfrey's worst performance for us? Klose looks exactly like a man who's not played competitive football for over a year. Trybull and MacLean proved that while they may be genuinely lovely people off the pitch, neither of them are close to being Premier League quality footballers. Drmic  offered us nothing today and I can't see any reason to give him another start this season when Idah could be gaining experience in that time. 

    I guess what I'm suggesting is there's no point everyone on this thread arguing about who's to blame for that shambles when the answer is 'All of them'!

Spot on for me but can I add that I also think we took the knee before the game but forgot to get up afterwards. For me we need to use the remaining 8 league games as pre-season preparation for the Championship, give the youngsters some experience and maybe have a go at the FA Cup although after tonight I think that is a pipe dream.........

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I’m not saying the situation is Farke’s fault but I think he has to take a large amount of the blame for today’s performance.

He picked the team and left our only physical midfield player on the bench, despite picking less central midfielders than normal. This left us completely exposed centrally and over run in midfield. 
He played two up top but our game plan was exactly the same as it would be with one up. We had one less body in midfield but yet we kept trying to play intricately through the midfield. It didn’t work and we kept losing the ball in dangerous positions and had no creativity.

We played two up top but had no width so created very few chances. The formation clearly didn’t benefit any of our creative players as they were all anonymous. We basically isolated Buendia and Cantwell out of the match.

I could go on but the formation, personnel or style needed changing at half time. We were lucky to get in level but yet he changed nothing. Even the commentators were surprised there were no changes at the break.

We inevitably went behind and yet there were still no changes despite the formation clearly not working and we then inevitably went two goals down.

it was still a further eight minutes before anything was changed and even then it was like-for-like personnel changes, with no change to formation or style. Then it was three nil and game over.

it seemed so blatantly obvious from the first 15 mins onwards  that the formation wasn’t working. We looked tired but part of that would be down to the lack of possession after this point. We made Southampton look like world beaters but they’re an average team who had nothing to play for, who actually looked distinctly second best for the first 15 mins.

Even the substitutions when made were extremely questionable in terms of personnel. 
In my opinion, the abject performance was largely a result of Farke’s poor in-game management.

 

 

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2 hours ago, NeymarSmith said:

Hmm. Really though? 

 

For those who blame farke, here's a scenario.

 

We get rid of farke. Who do you want instead who can do better?

And if hypothetically, we could do back to October, and get rid of farke, who are you appointing who could do better. 

 

They still have the same players and financial restraints

I don’t want anyone else to try and get us out of the champ. We won’t have the same issues next season  or at least if we do the quality we have will compensate for them.

but I do think there are probably managers who are worse coaches than Farke who might have got more out of our squad this season in the premier through organisation and game management. If (big If) we happen to get up again then Farke needs to show he’s learnt quickly or should come under pressure. 

 

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1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Are most people related to the owners or close friends with them on here ? What an easy ride they get and have always been given. 

 

Nope. They get the ride they deserve, that is naturally what happens when you have such a large number of people to average it out. The reality is most are happy to have them as our owners and I think that will be even more evident next year as some clubs who have been owned by rich billionaires currently or recently find themselves in financial ruin.

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Spot on Clint. Our approach to this season has sadly been too naive. We have received media plaudits for trying to "play the right way" but it's been patronising stuff like letting a 5:year old in with the big kids and patting him on the head for having a nice day out.

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2 hours ago, king canary said:

Farke arguably has the biggest test- he'll have a squad that will be packed full of Championship winners but getting them focused, confident and coherent again won't be simple.

This is something that often seems to get overlooked by relegated clubs. It is usually thought that the players who were good enough to take a club up should be good enough to take them back, but so many things change.

A lot of them will be in the second half of their careers with not much more to prove so may lack the same hunger they once had. The likes of Trybull, Stiepermann, Pukki, McLean, Vrancic, Krul and Klose are all in the 27-32 range, they're on nice comfortable contracts, they've experienced playing in the Premier League and many of them toiled, so would they as be as determined as they once were to get back there? I'm not questioning their professionalism, but just a 5% drop in desire and motivation, which is human instinct, would have an effect.

Also, after a year of getting rings run round them by Premier League footballers, their confidence will have suffered. They were riding the crest of a wave two years ago when they were all on form, winning most weeks and they probably felt invincible at times. But now that form and confidence has gone, and more doubts will have crept in.

The Championship will not be an easy ride, that's for sure.

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

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16 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

This is something that often seems to get overlooked by relegated clubs. It is usually thought that the players who were good enough to take a club up should be good enough to take them back, but so many things change.

A lot of them will be in the second half of their careers with not much more to prove so may lack the same hunger they once had. The likes of Trybull, Stiepermann, Pukki, McLean, Vrancic, Krul and Klose are all in the 27-32 range, they're on nice comfortable contracts, they've experienced playing in the Premier League and many of them toiled, so would they as be as determined as they once were to get back there? I'm not questioning their professionalism, but just a 5% drop in desire and motivation, which is human instinct, would have an effect.

Also, after a year of getting rings run round them by Premier League footballers, their confidence will have suffered. They were riding the crest of a wave two years ago when they were all on form, winning most weeks and they probably felt invincible at times. But now that form and confidence has gone, and more doubts will have crept in.

The Championship will not be an easy ride, that's for sure.

It never is. But I do believe we are in a much better position than any time we have come down previously.

- philosophy instilled throughout the club. 

- plenty of young talent already in the first team

- improved training facilities 

- improved pathway for youngsters to progress into the first team

- coaches, management and players that 90% of the fanbase are still backing.

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Just now, hogesar said:

It never is. But I do believe we are in a much better position than any time we have come down previously.

- philosophy instilled throughout the club. 

- plenty of young talent already in the first team

- improved training facilities 

- improved pathway for youngsters to progress into the first team

- coaches, management and players that 90% of the fanbase are still backing.

All those are true, but how much of the young talent in the first team will stay? How many of the older players will have the same hunger? We may need to make a lot of changes to the first team squad in order to be competitive.

How many of the current Under-23 side are ready? Will we sign the right players?

There are many questions. Often clubs who are settled in the Championship, had a decent season the year before and then make a couple of improvements are better equipped than a relegated club because they have a more solid platform.

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6 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

All those are true, but how much of the young talent in the first team will stay? How many of the older players will have the same hunger? We may need to make a lot of changes to the first team squad in order to be competitive.

How many of the current Under-23 side are ready? Will we sign the right players?

There are many questions. Often clubs who are settled in the Championship, had a decent season the year before and then make a couple of improvements are better equipped than a relegated club because they have a more solid platform.

Again, dont disagree but with the financial hit taken by championship clubs before taking my previous points into account our platform is about as good as it could possibly be for a relegated club. Like you say, alot hinges on who stays but with Idah and Martin invovled already that's two more young players coming in who could replace 2 going out.

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The most frustrating thing about each time we have been promoted nothing has been learned.  Every January transfer window we are forced by our position in the league to try and buy our way out of trouble

Nothing will ever change 

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