Corona Virus main thread

[Van wink 2,994]

5 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Nope, all their stores in California are still closed... the Disney one will probably be the last to open as it's in the park itself. Check that - there is one "to go" kiosk open in San Francisco near Pier 39.... getting my car keys 😉

Have one for me

[Aggy 755]

2 hours ago, Surfer said:

Um the Speaker does not pass legislation, the HoC does, and last time I checked the Tories had a solid majority. So yet another cop out from expected and reasonable behavior, "always in campaign mode and not governing" is the truth in UK and US unfortunately. 

I may have to retract my earlier comments - I had assumed the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 had been approved by the HOC and the HOL. This would ordinarily be required before regulations can come into force pursuant to the Public Health (control of disease) Act.

Turns out I was wrong. The government used an ‘emergency clause’ within the Public Health Act which which allows them to forego getting approval from the two houses. So Parliament didn’t have any chance to scrutinise before the lockdown came into force. 

Interestingly, the emergency rules the government used say that any regulations which are imposed using the emergency route will cease to have effect if parliament hasn’t approved them within 28 days. They came into force on 26 March but because parliament hasn’t been sitting every day, need to have been approved by 19 May. I think they were debated earlier this week.

Still doesn’t change that the government has no obligation to tell parliament about its future plans, but to be fair to parliament I can’t really blame them for approving the regs in the first place as they didn’t get the chance!

[Mark .Y. 352]

11 hours ago, Aggy said:

I may have to retract my earlier comments - I had assumed the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 had been approved by the HOC and the HOL. This would ordinarily be required before regulations can come into force pursuant to the Public Health (control of disease) Act.

Turns out I was wrong. The government used an ‘emergency clause’ within the Public Health Act which which allows them to forego getting approval from the two houses. So Parliament didn’t have any chance to scrutinise before the lockdown came into force. 

Interestingly, the emergency rules the government used say that any regulations which are imposed using the emergency route will cease to have effect if parliament hasn’t approved them within 28 days. They came into force on 26 March but because parliament hasn’t been sitting every day, need to have been approved by 19 May. I think they were debated earlier this week.

Still doesn’t change that the government has no obligation to tell parliament about its future plans, but to be fair to parliament I can’t really blame them for approving the regs in the first place as they didn’t get the chance!

Nice one, Aggy.

If only everybod who has posted up things that turn out to be untrue were big enough to post again and correct their error instead of allowing it to slide off the last page so that it gets forgotten about.

[Herman 9,765]

This thread would only be about 3 pages long then.😉

Anyway, this is another ldea that is being put out. Seems a bit of shutting the stable door but every little helps for the future.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52594023

[Bill 1,788]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52594023

"If a quarantine is needed now, some will question why it was not necessary weeks ago.

Tens of thousands of people have flown into the UK during the pandemic, although the government says the vast majority were returning home."

Which would mean that if I was stopped yesterday evening and required to take a virus test I could reply

"No need, as I am returning home"

Mean while the 'cover up' continues

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/08/revealed-uk-scientists-fury-over-attempt-to-censor-covid-19-advice

"Government scientific advisers are furious at what they see as an attempt to censor their advice on government proposals during the Covid-19 lockdown by heavily redacting an official report before it was released to the public, the Guardian can reveal."

 

[BigFish 1,987]

16 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

My understanding based on the news articles posted above is that the NHS app would give the government a much better picture of the spread of the virus and might lead to a better testing strategy.

Is privacy your concern?

Yep, @Barbe bleu, privacy is my concern, particularly the amount of persoanl data that leaks out of my phone. As it is I already mix up my browsers and mainly use Firefox, mix up my search engines and mainly use DuckDuckGo. Now the government wants  track my movements in a manner that is probably illegal using an app that fails to monitor iPhones correctly unless there is an Android phone in listening distance.

[Pugin 601]

49 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Yep, @Barbe bleu, privacy is my concern, particularly the amount of persoanl data that leaks out of my phone. As it is I already mix up my browsers and mainly use Firefox, mix up my search engines and mainly use DuckDuckGo. Now the government wants  track my movements in a manner that is probably illegal using an app that fails to monitor iPhones correctly unless there is an Android phone in listening distance.

Do you realise that your Satnav has a trackable memory? It's why the Police sometimes take possession of Satnav after RTAs where criminality may be involved. I think (but don't know) the Satnav until has to be downloaded to access the data. I only know because my brother was involved in a very serious RTA and the Police impounded his Satnav and explained the reason why.

I have often wondered how easy it is to hack into Satnav...

[Number9 272]

10 minutes ago, Pugin said:

Do you realise that your Satnav has a trackable memory? It's why the Police sometimes take possession of Satnav after RTAs where criminality may be involved. I think (but don't know) the Satnav until has to be downloaded to access the data. I only know because my brother was involved in a very serious RTA and the Police impounded his Satnav and explained the reason why.

I have often wondered how easy it is to hack into Satnav...

Unless you're in the habit of disabling the gps on your phone, it's easy for the authorities to know exactly where you've been. 

[sonyc 5,519]

Posting this link as it's surely a positive move for the care sector....

Public health directors in England are asked to take charge of Covid-19 testing

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/08/public-health-directors-take-charge-covid-19-testing-care-homes?

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

1 hour ago, Pugin said:

Do you realise that your Satnav has a trackable memory? It's why the Police sometimes take possession of Satnav after RTAs where criminality may be involved. I think (but don't know) the Satnav until has to be downloaded to access the data. I only know because my brother was involved in a very serious RTA and the Police impounded his Satnav and explained the reason why.

I have often wondered how easy it is to hack into Satnav...

Google Maps has a memory feature so I would imagine all journeys are stored on Google servers somewhere. 

I don't know the exact terms of service of this feature but it wouldn't surprise me that if you disable journey tracking feature it still gathers the data but merely disables the reporting back to you.  I'm fairly sure the State has access to this data. 

[Aggy 755]

9 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Google Maps has a memory feature so I would imagine all journeys are stored on Google servers somewhere. 

I don't know the exact terms of service of this feature but it wouldn't surprise me that if you disable journey tracking feature it still gathers the data but merely disables the reporting back to you.  I'm fairly sure the State has access to this data. 

Ever watched “Hunted”? Probably fixed to some degree, but the first thing they do is sack off technology as much as possible. If you’re ever on the run stick to paper maps!

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

Further down in the tweet theres;

Importantly, note the Cygnus report went to the then Foreign Secretary because of recommendations about international cooperation. He shelved it. Who was that Foreign Sec? Boris Johnson. He knew. He did nothing. And then when it happened for real. He did nothing, again.

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

9 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Further down in the tweet theres;

Importantly, note the Cygnus report went to the then Foreign Secretary because of recommendations about international cooperation. He shelved it. Who was that Foreign Sec? Boris Johnson. He knew. He did nothing. And then when it happened for real. He did nothing, again.

 

I'm guessing it was too wordy  - longer than two sides of A4 or thereabouts (as per the dictat that reports to Johnson had to be brief and succinct else they would escape attention span) - had no pictures, too much maths and certainly no spitfires or union jacks.

 

 

[Crafty Canary 495]

Ho hum, another day and another lefties Bash Boris fest. How you all must wish Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbot were running the show. 😱

[T 190]

Some people think anyone who isn’t racist is left wing. They are not. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Ho hum, another day and another lefties Bash Boris fest. How you all must wish Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbot were running the show

You're right there. At least they appeared in public. Boris as a war time leader?🦄

[Mello Yello 2,294]

7 minutes ago, T said:

Some people think anyone who isn’t racist is left wing. They are not. 

I assume you're neither left or right wing....probably more of a co(kpit.....

[T 190]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/06/britain-criticised-around-world-dither-delay-coronavirus-response/
 

When one of your main supporters and employers starts strongly attacking you them there is clearly a major problem which only the severely narrow minded can deny

[BigFish 1,987]

3 hours ago, Pugin said:

Do you realise that your Satnav has a trackable memory? It's why the Police sometimes take possession of Satnav after RTAs where criminality may be involved. I think (but don't know) the Satnav until has to be downloaded to access the data. I only know because my brother was involved in a very serious RTA and the Police impounded his Satnav and explained the reason why.

I have often wondered how easy it is to hack into Satnav...

The point is with the satnav is the data is held locally. The government's app transmits all your contact data to a centralised database. They could know who you are meeting and where while it is actually happening.

As for satnav hacking I was told at one time Nissan didn't firewall ther engine management system from the entertainment and satnav systems. Result was hackers found not only could they hack the satnav but they could take control of the engine, starting and stopping it at will. You can never take too much care.

[BigFish 1,987]

12 minutes ago, T said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/06/britain-criticised-around-world-dither-delay-coronavirus-response/
 

When one of your main supporters and employers starts strongly attacking you them there is clearly a major problem which only the severely narrow minded can deny

More lefties for @Crafty Canary to complain about, despite the excellent job Johnson is doing 😉

[Crafty Canary 495]

43 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Ho hum, another day and another lefties Bash Boris fest. How you all must wish Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbot were running the show

You're right there. At least they appeared in public. Boris as a war time leader?🦄

The Three Amigos, well they are a joke.

[BigFish 1,987]

19 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

The Three Amigos, well they are a joke.

None of which are now involved in front line politics.

So with 50,000 dead (FT), 20,000 new cases a day after seven weeks of lockdown, the failed March 12 herd immunity strategy and a outsourced fiasco of a track, trace and isolate you think nothing has gone amiss?

Edited May 9, 2020 by BigFish

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

1 hour ago, T said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/06/britain-criticised-around-world-dither-delay-coronavirus-response/
 

When one of your main supporters and employers starts strongly attacking you them there is clearly a major problem which only the severely narrow minded can deny

 

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

More lefties for @Crafty Canary to complain about, despite the excellent job Johnson is doing 😉

I guess the Telegraph article is also too long and wordy.

[Crafty Canary 495]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

None of which are now involved in front line politics.

So with 50,000 dead (FT), 20,000 new cases a day after seven weeks of lockdown, the failed March 12 herd immunity strategy and a outsourced fiasco of a track, trace and isolate you think nothing has gone amiss?

Deaths from all sources recorded today as 31587 so 50000 sounds like fake news. Daily new cases recorded as 3896 and has been at the 4-6000 level for some time so 20000 again sounds like fake news. I think I’ll take the official statistics over what journalists claim. As I have said before excess deaths over the period of the pandemic will be the most reliable measure of performance. I am sure the inquiry that follows the pandemic will identify key shortfalls in the government’s performance and I’ll wait for that than listen to the biased views of the lefties on here. 

[Crafty Canary 495]

45 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

I guess the Telegraph article is also too long and wordy.

Sticks and stones........ 🖕

[T 190]

Fully support govt bike and walk initiative. Not a choice really but credit where credit due. The blind support for Govt given the poor preparations together with support for the policies that has led to one of the worst death records is truly nauseating and the complete disregard for life says  a lot about its uncritical supporters but govt still deserve support where they are trying to do the right thing. 

[BigFish 1,987]

13 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

Deaths from all sources recorded today as 31587 so 50000 sounds like fake news. Daily new cases recorded as 3896 and has been at the 4-6000 level for some time so 20000 again sounds like fake news. I think I’ll take the official statistics over what journalists claim. As I have said before excess deaths over the period of the pandemic will be the most reliable measure of performance. I am sure the inquiry that follows the pandemic will identify key shortfalls in the government’s performance and I’ll wait for that than listen to the biased views of the lefties on here. 

I'll give you the new cases, I think my source (a former Director of WHO) misattributed daily for weekly, so I guess you think 20k new cases a week is a great success. As for "fake news", there seems a lot of it about (and the 50k deaths stands up)......

Shocking new research shows UK's coronavirus death toll could really be over 50,000 from those lefties at the Express

There may have already been 55,000 deaths relating to coronavirus in the UK at a ‘cautious estimate’, experts have said  from the lefties at Metro

UK death toll from virus becomes highest in Europe from those lefties at the FT

I disgree that we should cut this feckless, lazy, unprepared and incompetent government slack now. It is time to call this out now, while it could still make a difference, while people are being killed by mistakes.

[Crafty Canary 495]

Interesting that the FT article states that experts believe excess deaths will be the key indicator just as I have said in my post and in earlier ones. The figures being quoted are estimates. I’ll wIt for the actual figure when it is known.

My opinion on the death rate and new cases is that it is what it is. Each death is a tragedy for the families concerned but I don’t believe for those families there is any more comfort to be gained by being told the death rate is amongst the lowest in Europe compared to being one of the worst. 

[Aggy 755]

Has anyone been able to find stats which break down the ‘five year average’ into individual years? How much variance is there year on year? Do we see five years roughly all the same or one really low, one really high, three in the middle for instance?

[Mark .Y. 352]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

I'll give you the new cases, I think my source (a former Director of WHO) misattributed daily for weekly, so I guess you think 20k new cases a week is a great success. As for "fake news", there seems a lot of it about (and the 50k deaths stands up)......

Shocking new research shows UK's coronavirus death toll could really be over 50,000 from those lefties at the Express

There may have already been 55,000 deaths relating to coronavirus in the UK at a ‘cautious estimate’, experts have said  from the lefties at Metro

UK death toll from virus becomes highest in Europe from those lefties at the FT

I disgree that we should cut this feckless, lazy, unprepared and incompetent government slack now. It is time to call this out now, while it could still make a difference, while people are being killed by mistakes.

Did you see the post I put up some time ago from the Italian CMO who said that when they reinvestigated Covid-19 deaths, they found "only" 12% of them were directly attributable to the virus.

Still a shocking waste of life, I know, but a far lower number than any "righty", "lefty" or other kind of newspaper wants to show, I can only assume because it is not as shocking as talking about 55,000 deaths so wouldn't sell as many copies