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cornish sam

Aspiring to the Swansea model

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The endless and ever changing why can’t we be like whatever club in is vogue pasts have always amused and frustrated me.

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4 minutes ago, T said:

The endless and ever changing why can’t we be like whatever club in is vogue pasts have always amused and frustrated me.

There's a difference between envy on the one hand, and seeking to learn from someone else's experience and example on the other. When Swansea and West Brom were being touted on here not so long ago, it was a case of the latter, not the former. Our current success is down to adopting much of what those two clubs had started to do while we were heading downwards towards League One: adopting a management structure that delivered continuity, settling on the style of football to be played, selecting coaches versed in that style, recruiting players with the skill sets to deliver that style, and so on.

Graham Potter has good reason for saying what he has; it's a reminder to Swansea's American owners as to how the Swans came to enjoy the success that persuaded them to buy the club in the first place, departing from which has led to their current situation.

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I like what he has to say, so much better than the mind games that we get from other Managers. Showing respect doesn't detract from the fact that he will be doing all he can to win the game, he doesn't come across as being a Lambert or a Wilder p!ssing people off before a ball has been kicked. 

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1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

I cannot recall any threads or posts wanting to be like Swansea.

There was a little rumbling Til - particularly when we went down and they stayed up won the League Cup. I can't really remember any foundation for it other than pant-wetting jealousy.

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Oh come on it is comical how the club we should be like keeps changing over time and to see where they are now. The majority of the clubs in the Championship and some in League one have all been in the premiership at some time. All clubs fluctuate in the long term around their natural financial position. They all have their successful periods  NCFC have hardly found a long term model when it is based on freedom of movement which the people of the UK have voted to take away. 

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56 minutes ago, T said:

Oh come on it is comical how the club we should be like keeps changing over time and to see where they are now. The majority of the clubs in the Championship and some in League one have all been in the premiership at some time. All clubs fluctuate in the long term around their natural financial position. They all have their successful periods  NCFC have hardly found a long term model when it is based on freedom of movement which the people of the UK have voted to take away. 

Oh, maybe there should be a separate thread for Brexit discussions? Not sure if it would get many posts though 😏

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9 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Really?🤷‍♂️

All i can recall is a few posters gushing over them having a couple of fans on the board and they owning 20% of the shares but that counted for didderly squat when Jenkins sold the club to the Americans without even consulting them.

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3 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

All i can recall is a few posters gushing over them having a couple of fans on the board and they owning 20% of the shares but that counted for didderly squat when Jenkins sold the club to the Americans without even consulting them.

Haven't got time to go through t forum Search as eating lunch at work. Also do not have the unswervingly accurate memory of a village Bobby. But wasn't there a thread titled ...why can't we be Swansea? Try checking the trusty notebook Till, apparently factual evidence can( sometimes) be found  in those things....but not always.

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Wasn't that around the time when the wallet was empty and Nephew Tom was poised to take over and run the club into the ground? 🤔

Apples

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18 hours ago, glory.win or die. said:

I thought Charlton Athletic was the model we aspired too

Nah, that was Athletic Charlie.

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4 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

All i can recall is a few posters gushing over them having a couple of fans on the board and they owning 20% of the shares but that counted for didderly squat when Jenkins sold the club to the Americans without even consulting them.

"Motivated forgetting is a theorized psychological behavior in which people may forget unwanted memories, either consciously or unconsciously. ... Thought suppression is a method in which people protect themselves by blocking the recall of these anxiety-arousing memories."

A lot of the references to the likes of Swansea, West Brom, Southampton, Wigan, Burnley etc. were in threads critical of our owners, those clubs being cited as of similar size to ourselves but, unlike us, fired by real ambition and a preparedness to invest ...........  😋

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2 hours ago, Mr Apples said:

Wasn't that around the time when the wallet was empty and Nephew Tom was poised to take over and run the club into the ground? 🤔

Apples

 

1 hour ago, westcoastcanary said:

"Motivated forgetting is a theorized psychological behavior in which people may forget unwanted memories, either consciously or unconsciously. ... Thought suppression is a method in which people protect themselves by blocking the recall of these anxiety-arousing memories."

A lot of the references to the likes of Swansea, West Brom, Southampton, Wigan, Burnley etc. were in threads critical of our owners, those clubs being cited as of similar size to ourselves but, unlike us, fired by real ambition and a preparedness to invest ...........  😋

I didn't make notes at the time westcoastcanary which is what obviously should have been done in hindsight. Dear me getting taken to task for saying i could not remember. I must have been blinded by the list of other clubs you mention. I was unaware i had made a conscious decision to forget that memory if that is what you are suggesting.

As for Apples comment the wallet was indeed empty and if you care to recall we had to sell before we could buy with Redmond being a prime example which was also backed up at a forum with Steve Stone saying we needed to balance the books ( yeah that worked out well until Webber pitched up didn't it ? ) That particular season our transfer income exceeded our transfer expenditure. With regard to Nephew Tom he has not been let loose with the purse strings yet so give it time.

Surprised that my stalker has not popped up yet. 😜

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7 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Surprised that my stalker has not popped up yet. 😜

I would put put down to age, old fellow

though you can get help using certain 'tablets'

 

....so I am told 😏

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Swansea managed the transition from manager to manager far better than we did not long ago. 

There will be many at this level now talking of how they should follow the Norwich model and I'm sure in 3 or 4 years if we find ourselves struggling in some way shape or form there will be others saying 'remember when you all thought we should follow the Norwich model?'

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9 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Haven't got time to go through t forum Search as eating lunch at work. Also do not have the unswervingly accurate memory of a village Bobby. But wasn't there a thread ****led ...why can't we be Swansea? Try checking the trusty notebook Till, apparently factual evidence can( sometimes) be found  in those things....but not always.

There were definitely jealous noises towards 'Swanselona' and the media love-in.

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Just now, PurpleCanary said:

The local paper there is now using the term "the Norwich City model" as something Swansea should try to follow...

I think we just have to accept there is no model. I've certainly been guilty of thinking such a thing exists. 

You could recreate our model structure exactly but if you've not got a SD as canny as Webber, a coach as smart as Farke and youngsters of the talent of Aarons, Lewis and Cantwell you're not going to do as well.

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23 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think we just have to accept there is no model. I've certainly been guilty of thinking such a thing exists. 

You could recreate our model structure exactly but if you've not got a SD as canny as Webber, a coach as smart as Farke and youngsters of the talent of Aarons, Lewis and Cantwell you're not going to do as well.

I'm not sure there's no such thing as a model to follow, but  I agree you it very much needs the right people to implement it. The Charlton model was in essence built on a brilliant (for them) manager in Curbishley, and it fell apart when he left.

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I don't really understand the cynicism here. Surely any organisation will follow models , based on the circumstances at the time? It was absolutely right to look at Charlton at the time; they exhibited excellent results based on strong methods. A good manager, a connection to their fan base, a nod towards a certain style of play. Why wouldn't football club businesses aspire for those attributes? That those teams then begin to fail, and are replaced by other teams being successful , and subsequently becoming interesting models is entirely understandable.

So here's one to consider.

NCFC are following the Huddersfield model to the letter, or at least certainly we were.  The model will by now have been tweaked to suit the induvial circumstances of our club and team. So on the one hand our Club has openly followed/copied this model. Now that Huddersfield are going  down, does that mean that we will move away from their model? Will we read mocking threads about "if only we were Huddersfield?"

If we go up this year, we will have implemented a very clear strategy based on successes experienced elsewhere. 

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The Norwich model has been successful for the last ten years. Just not unrealistically successful. The common denominator is of course our owners.

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31 minutes ago, king canary said:

You could recreate our model structure exactly but if you've not got a SD as canny as Webber, a coach as smart as Farke and youngsters of the talent of Aarons, Lewis and Cantwell you're not going to do as well.

The crux of the "model", surely, is the commitment to continuity and the progressive evolution of a defining style of play. That determines who you appoint as DoF, 1st team Coach, Academy head, chief scout etc., and the brief they and those under them work to. In that sense the model is also a commitment to longer term proactive, rather than short term reactive, management at all levels, including board level (e.g. investing in improving training facilities at the cost of a reduced transfer and wage budget. Yes, you have to get the appointments right; but if you don't succeed in doing that first time, you replace, but given the model, without then veering off on a completely different tack.

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1 hour ago, westcoastcanary said:

The crux of the "model", surely, is the commitment to continuity and the progressive evolution of a defining style of play. That determines who you appoint as DoF, 1st team Coach, Academy head, chief scout etc., and the brief they and those under them work to. In that sense the model is also a commitment to longer term proactive, rather than short term reactive, management at all levels, including board level (e.g. investing in improving training facilities at the cost of a reduced transfer and wage budget. Yes, you have to get the appointments right; but if you don't succeed in doing that first time, you replace, but given the model, without then veering off on a completely different tack.

You are correct of course Westcoast. But I would say only at the moment. What we see currently, based on the Huddersfield methods , and the financial position we found ourselves in after relegation,  is proving successful.

Contrast that to other successes - under McNally who by most measures was successful, but diverted funds away from infrastructure and into the players pockets in a bid to stay up/ go back up/ and this only turned around to bite us when we failed to go back up after the last relegation.  I would say the methods employed were quite different. I didn't see much commitment to continuity, in the way we do now.  

You can also contrast it to abject failure - when we slid into league one with crippling debts and a load of loan players.

So the original point made is that it is relevant and appropriate change your model based on what you see as working at the time (Charlton), married of course with your own (financial ) circumstances.

Whatever the model, if I can watch the sort of football I've seen at CR this year , I'll take it.

 

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1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

The Norwich model has been successful for the last ten years. Just not unrealistically successful. The common denominator is of course our owners.

Makes you wonder why Webber and Farke had to take a hatchet to the playing squad and seriously trim the transfer budget when they arrived because i seem to recall that if we had not have sold Maddison for over £20 million we were in big trouble.

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