the decline of a hero... who's to blame?

[Syteanric 1]

Holt... the debate has raged on all season about him since the infamous "Wobbly (No pun intended!)" last summer....what has led to his decline in games this season? keen on seeing everyone''s thoughts in one thread based on tidbits and peoples musings from this season:1. Hughton - do Hughton and Holt not see eye to eye? are the tactics we are employing meaning that Holt is struggling on this basis?2. David Mcnally - bit of a surprise perhaps - Last summer Paul Lambert was looking elsewhere, Mcnally knew this.. he also knew what the fans thought of Lambert and how well regarded he was... During the summer Grant Holt handed in a transfer request.. rumors were that he was going to follow Lambert to Villa. Did Holt see this as an opportunity to play the club for fools?He wanted more money, the club were not forthcoming originally.... with Hughton not yet in place and the club losing its former Talismanic manager did McNally and the board metaphorically Sh*t themselves at the thought of losing Holt and incurring the wrath of the fans as well as essentially hanging CH out to dry? I''ve never met McNally.. but I get the impression that he doesn''t like being the centre of a balls up.. calling the rozzers on the lad who leaked the shirt earlier this season and then looking silly is perhaps evidence of this? Did the Ego of the man, the fear of being public enemy number 1, allow him to let the clubs top scorer hold him and the board to ransom?3. Grant Holt - is the biggest villain in this Holt himself? - did last season go to his head? top scorer, national coverage, club captaincy and England talk. did Grant simply think he was bigger than the club and everything should be handed to him on a plate? handing in a transfer request was the move of his agent i think.. taking advantage of the club when they had already lost 1 prized assett.. this may have allowed Holt to rest on his Laurels and esentially get what he wanted... the Fans "darling" staying for the rest of his career.. they love him.. he can do no wrong!which brings us to where we are now... he has done wrong.. Holt is now showing signs that he doesn''t care any more.. that as long as the money comes in he can swan around with his captains arm band and the fans will honor his every move... did he do right? Reading Hucks book and how Darren took a wage cut every year to stay at Norwich and never once let us down suggests perhaps Grant and his Mercenary tactics have seriously back fired.4. the passage of time - is it simply that Grant Holt is just no longer good enough? that the time has come to say ''Thanks'' all the best!'' and cash in? using the money to find another Hero?is there a way back for a 32 year old, slightly over weight Ex tyre fitter who gave us all hope for a season? or is it time to point a finger, make an excuse and move on?

[Haggerdoo 6]

You''ve never liked him have you Jas remember you slagging him off big time over the new contract last summer - not his fault that Hughton''s played him up front on his own all season with precious little service from our wingers

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Haggerdoo"]You''ve never liked him have you Jas remember you slagging him off big time over the new contract last summer - not his fault that Hughton''s played him up front on his own all season with precious little service from our wingers[/quote]I''ve liked Holt from day one.. the goals in league 1, the championship and last season...the first point you raise might just have answered the question... New contract appears goals dry up...haven''t i been proved right?

[a1canary 0]

Oh for god''s sake, here we go again. Is this because he missed a penalty then, is that it?

How many has he missed for us? Wasn''t a great performance today but it''s another point and he is still our talisman. Why not take a look at all the games he hasn''t featured in this season? Or see how many points we have won with him on the pitch vs him off it. His confidence hasn''t been as high this season as last, and that has come from not scoring as many as last season because of the role he has played but all this "fallen hero" BS is just that.

Please, get over it!

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

An interesting post.

Holt is a club legend for his past achievements but two comments from Grant himself provided real food for thought this week.

Firstly, there was an article about everything that is available to players at NCFC in term of nutrition, Physio and sports science. For me, for footballers as with all those far less remunerated athletes this has to be compulsory - they simply do as they are told, but it seems this menu is a self-select buffet and players take or leave it as they fancy.

The second was a tweet bemoaning Nando''s not doing home delivery.

Players are proving today what can be gained from doing the right things. I have friends with families doing full time shift work putting in hard and long training for triathlons while trying to eat properly.

I''m sorry but match gained stamina and running around is no substitute for physical and mental sharpness. Holt has lost his edge and has only himself to blame.

[I am a Banana 0]

Whoever gave Holt the bumper contract.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

I used to adore Holt but now I don''t. He was the hearbeat of our team but now seems to not be too bothered. He''s always carried some weight but usually by mid season he''s shifted it, doesn''t look like it this year. He''s become lazy and demotivated. When was the last time you saw him knock a Vidic or Terry to the ground and fire the crowd up? When was the last time he actually held the ball up and brought others into play instead of falling over?

I''m sorry goals scored, or lack of, are not my concern with Holt. It''s the other stuff he used to do that I loved and made us successfull. He was our non league tyre fitter who was privillged to share the field with super stars but never  affraid of them. His passion and commitment made up for a lack of abillity and equaled him up to the superstars. That passion does not look there anymore and I fear he may well be starting to have a negative effect on the team.

Holt just isn''t Holt anymore...... 

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="a1canary"]Oh for god''s sake, here we go again. Is this because he missed a penalty then, is that it?

How many has he missed for us? Wasn''t a great performance today but it''s another point and he is still our talisman. Why not take a look at all the games he hasn''t featured in this season? Or see how many points we have won with him on the pitch vs him off it. His confidence hasn''t been as high this season as last, and that has come from not scoring as many as last season because of the role he has played but all this "fallen hero" BS is just that.

Please, get over it![/quote]2 goals in 19 games....setting the world alight would you say?

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="lincoln canary"]

I used to adore Holt but now I don''t. He was the hearbeat of our team but now seems to not be too bothered. He''s always carried some weight but usually by mid season he''s shifted it, doesn''t look like it this year. He''s become lazy and demotivated. When was the last time you saw him knock a Vidic or Terry to the ground and fire the crowd up? When was the last time he actually held the ball up and brought others into play instead of falling over?

I''m sorry goals scored, or lack of, are not my concern with Holt. It''s the other stuff he used to do that I loved and made us successfull. He was our non league tyre fitter who was privillged to share the field with super stars but never  affraid of them. His passion and commitment made up for a lack of abillity and equaled him up to the superstars. That passion does not look there anymore and I fear he may well be starting to have a negative effect on the team.

Holt just isn''t Holt anymore...... 

[/quote]not often i agree with you Lincoln but i think this is a very good post...

[grefstad 0]

i fully support Jas on this, and I was also moaning about Holtys lack of energy and fitness back in August as well.

It was the same last season, but Lambert had the guts to put him on the bench and told him to shed a stone. Hughon does not.

For me he s not moving enough. I know he will rarely outrun any defender in this legue, but he can at least move better and more often,, and create space for ohers. He is searching the ball too often with his back to the goal, and it makes him ineffective. And he is way mote stationary than before.

Yes, it has something to do with the system Hughton plays, but not all.

We are the lowest scoring team in the division.

If we stay up I predict both Holt and Becchio are going to play off the bench next season, as we need more speed and penetration up front.

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

He''s moved his wife and children hundreds of miles away. For a family man like Grant Holt that can''t be easy. In their absence focussing on dog racing is a poor substitute for thumping the ball in the net and warmly celebrating afterwards with your loved ones. Missed penalty or not, he appears to be unsettled at home and it shows...

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"]He''s moved his wife and children hundreds of miles away. For a family man like Grant Holt that can''t be easy. In their absence focussing on dog racing is a poor substitute for thumping the ball in the net and warmly celebrating afterwards with your loved ones. Missed penalty or not, he appears to be unsettled at home and it shows...[/quote]must have personal reasons for moving his family away and my sympathies.. not nice to be far away from loved ones.does this have an indication on Holts future?

[0ridgemanddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Why blame Holt, Hughton said a few days ago that he was being asked to play a different role. Its a manager with the not to lose mentality that is the problem.

[Cantiaci Canary 557]

Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill!

I can guarantee that if Holt had scored that pen there wouldn''t have been a whisper of criticism against our captain.

 

Holt is only scoring less goals because we are a different team under Hughton. We are conservative, cautious and play safe - even at home.

Hughton''s sole objective is to keep the club up and having seen our limited defensive qualities last season he has wisely spent the money on Garrido, Turner, Bassong, Tettey and Whittaker and played to their strengths.

 

If we stay up expect millions spent on strikers and a more positive Norwich at Carrow Road.   

 

[Firedawg 3]

Only 2 goals and the other strikers have scored,,,,, oh wait.

So people are saying we are more defensive but we are still supposed to score the same amount of goals as when we played offensively undre Lambert ?

Morison scored 9 last year but how many did he get before he went ?

It''s the style of play we play under Hughton not as I keep hearing it''s always the player''s fault.

[Firedawg 3]

You beat me to it by a few seconds Cantaci !

[SYG 0]

Holt is the only one to blame!

Today, and for the vast majority of the season has been very lazy and disinterested.

He is 30 odd now, he shouldn''t need a kick up the ar*e by a manager to change his game.

Drop him now

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

I''m not getting into the Holt is poor/great/fat/thin/greedy/moved his kids to Carlisle debate, but what is absolutely clear is that he is being played in a different role to that of the last three seasons. Hughton has an eye on interchangeable front players, and Holt very often finds himself wider in more neutral areas , which is clearly what he is told to do.

Somewhere there will be chances/scored ratios for GH this year in comparison to last, and there is no way he gets the ball in central areas as much as he did under the system employed by Lambert.

PS He was never going to score that pen today (puts in tin hat)

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

*puts ON tin hat!

[Making Plans 936]

It''s tactics, formation, style of play. What centre forward wouldn''t get peed off playing as a 10 the defender, never getting a decent pass or a decent cross. Strikers need service & Holt has had bugger all all season. We had the same sort of situation with Morison - he goes, gets service, starts enjoying his football again & scoring goals. The lesson is there for all to see.

[Highland Canary 76]

Holt (goals), Lambert (inspiration), Bowkett (capital reconstruction) - the three saviours of our club.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

It''s been a tough season for Holt.  This season''s cautious defensive approach is always going to hinder our strikers performance.  For example last season Holt had 2.1 chances per game, this season it is 1.6.  Also he struggled last season up front alone, and Morison played most of the games when we started one up front.He had a dreadful game today, but still won the penalty which could have won us the match.

[Ha ya got a loight boy? 0]

We''ve been spoilt by having Holt over the last four years.  He scored for fun in the lower leagues and that momentum helped him last year.   This year is different as many have said.    His role is more that of a Kevin Davies figure, an important cog in the team, roughing up the defenders and pulling the defence about.    The problem is with the team, not Holt.     The midfield supply and cohesiveness just hasn''t been there enough to give him enough chances.     We know he can score and will score and does score (Everton?). Decline of a hero?   Don''t make me laugh.   Its wishful thinking for some of you.  I''m sure some of you haven''t got over the fact that he was once a tyrefitter............

[Xander11ncfc 0]

I don''t post often on here but was going to tonight until he missed that penalty as assumed some would see it as an over reaction. Penalty aside he was not with it at all, I even said to the person next to me if he took it like he played it would have gone out for a throw in.

He on many occasions this season has caused me so much annoyance, he is not playing like a striker can. Honestly, the reasons people come up with positives are what you would see a very low level defensive midfielder do. Today he really did not do anything of note and when it came to the crucial moments (again penalty aside) he was not running, passing poorly and standing around instead of challenging.

This season he has really been poor, I certainly get why people say he is playing a different role, even when it comes to playing two strikers today there were too many times when Holt would rather cover then get forward. Again, I assume there is some form of slight role change but at the same time he is playing no where near what he can do.

[smooth 114]

You also have new and better players around that if you do not progress show you up.

Holty was a great pick up when we got him, he had all the attributes to score goals and by god he did. What a ride.

But there was always a point when he was going to need to be replaced, due to age but also as we climbed the league ladder.

Last season Vaughan and Morison were brought in, they could have easily by our strike force at the end of the season with.holty on the bench. But with football some things don''t work out. Now we will have.a large exodus of forwards in the summer and Hughton will already know what attacking players he needs. For me as another poster said he will be on the bench next season with becchio. I feel becchio will get more playing time next season than holty just as this season he has not been a threat to any team we have played.

I wonder what an opposing team focus on for a threat in front of goal they will know holty is a big unit, but he is not a threat on the goal at the moment. He will try and win free kicks but as another poster highlighted has he troubled any centre half as he did last season.

I do think last summer told us loads, he wanted and got a three year contract and now his family have moved back home 6months after signing that. Apart from west ham no other club wanted to come in for him, I do not even think west ham would have pushed for him and he would have been on the bench there.

You need a scorer to make goals himself so far holty has proved he cannot do this. There is no blame in what has happened to holty. He was always going to be needed to be replaced, this summer two strikers must come in and he will not be in the first 11. He will be on big wages for another two years, how long he will stay is another thing.

Last summer was not a great move. I would have been happy for him to look at a contract extension after this season. 2 years in this league and you prove yourself.

[Ha ya got a loight boy? 0]

I''m sorry to bang on about this, but I don''t understand why he is being written off, yet again.    He has troubled a lot of defences this season, but he simply hasn''t been getting the service he needs to score.   Snodgrass and Pilkington haven''t delivered enough decent crosses, Wes for all his skill hasn''t done enough  and Howson/Tettey/Johnson haven''t been good enough with their passing.The problems don''t rest with Holt.  He scores goals,. he always has done.   But if you don''t get the chances you can''t score.   He has been starved of his supply and playing off scraps.  Unfortunately, he is an easy target.    He doesn''t have the image or a fancy enough foreign name for some fans.  But give him the service and he will score.   Its not rocket science.  

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]It''s been a tough season for Holt.  This season''s cautious defensive approach is always going to hinder our strikers performance.  For example last season Holt had 2.1 chances per game, this season it is 1.6.  Also he struggled last season up front alone, and Morison played most of the games when we started one up front.He had a dreadful game today, but still won the penalty which could have won us the match.[/quote]

He should have got one earlier, I can''t understand why we didn''t seen to appeal for it?

[BroadstairsR 2,164]

A lot of sense in this thread so I will counter it with a bit of nonsense.

 

In answer to the original question, I make the following observations, in no particular order, as to ''who is to blame?''

1. The Grim Reaper.

2. Mrs. Holt with all those Cumbrian food parcels that she keeps sending him.

3.  That dour Mr. Hughton with his boring tactics.

4. Those crafty Premiership managers and defenders who have wised up to him a bit.

and finally, and probably the real nonsense, I have read somewhere rumours that a Summer swap has already been lined up with Celtic with the big man retiring to the SPL and Hooper coming here. |I can''t see this myself, but anything is possible and Holt does seem to have his mind elsewhere at times.

 

Untypically he has recently done ''just enough'' to justify his place. In yesterday''s performance, particularly the penalty miss, he did not do enough.

[ARCHIEGEMMELL 0]

Isn''t it funny how the delusional followers on this sight were screaming from the roof tops a short while ago at anybody who even dared to give our talisman any negativity. Calling us ''one time posters'' and ''binners''...where are you now I proclaim!!!! Two goal in 20 games...a true goal machine.  I think it''s time to take your green and yellow tinted glasses off and start judging with impartiality and just call a spade a spade! I was saying for a while that he should be dropped or rotated for the benefit of the team  if not for the player. We have been one dimensional for too long when we had other options (Jackson.Morison and now Beccio) to freshen things up with.  It takes a while to gain the cohesion necessary when rotating the team and bringing new acquisitions in but I feel we have been flogging this dead horse for too long now and we have run out of games needed in order to try and evaluate new ideas.   I don''t want to be all doooom and glooom but I feel we might be playing Championship football next season as I believe we have lost any momentum necessary for us to kick on and to cement our place in this affluent league. I feel let down by Hughton who seems to have the canny knack of seeing things way too late during a game and does not make the changes required  to counter the opposition!

[General Norwich 0]

Change of formation, new manager, whatever, Holt has lost his edge. Last season he overachieved as did the rest of the squad. This season he seems to have lost his hunger and does not look sharp or up for it. Of course he must be remembered for what he has achieved for the club, but your only as good as your last game. Time to cash in at the end of this season and bring in some PL quality