did bunn cost us today?

[JayNCFC 14]

I agree that we cannot expect from Bunn what we expect from Ruddy, an England international and our reserve.The second goal was awful from Bunn, he did very little to get back onto his line after running Aguero down. As a team yesterday our performance were littered with mistakes and ones that cost us. We made little or none against Arsenal and Man U and so got what we deserved, unfortunately we got what we deserved.

[star_manic 0]

definitely bad judgement for the second goal, and late going down for the own goal. he has never kept a clean sheet in all the matches he has played in the PL, which says something about his abilities, as well as those of the teams he has appeared for.

[Nuff Said 5,254]

[quote user="star_manic"]definitely bad judgement for the second goal, and late going down for the own goal. he has never kept a clean sheet in all the matches he has played in the PL, which says something about his abilities, as well as those of the teams he has appeared for.[/quote]The amount of hindsight on this thread is incredible. People were making comments like this about Ruddy when he first started playing for us, and holding up Forster as some sort of unbeatable super-keeper.I''m not saying Bunn will turn out to be another potential England keeper, but in the judgement of the management team (who include Dave Watson), he''s the best option we''ve got. By all means give Rudd or Steer a game in the cup, in the same way as we did for Bunn, but scapegoating someone is a sure-fire way of ensuring their performance will go down, not up. Let''s get behind what we''ve got.And for those suggesting getting another keeper in - is that really the best use of our cash? Surely we should be concentrating on up front?

[Yellow Wal 314]

Bunn is what he is ....... a good second option for a team, not a regular first team keeper.

He would normally be called on for a game or two in cases of suspension or minor injury it is just unfortunate that JR''s injury is so severe.

To call for Craig Gordon, who hasn''t played in the Premiership for months, or Cudicinni who can''t displace three other keepers at his club and has been an occassional keeper since 2006, is ludicrous.

Bunn was at fault only for the fourth goal where he was beaten on his near post.

He is no John Ruddy but he is judged as the best we have available by the best goalkeeping coach in the country. He has more knowledge of the position and the game than I have ............ or the several posters on this thread.

[? 20]

It''s not a case of comparing Bunn to Ruddy, it''s a case of comparing Bunn to Rudd.

 

So far i''ve seen nothing to make me think he''s a better ''keeper than either of the youngsters.

 

The thought of playing the lightweight Bunn in goal against a Sam Allardyce side who like to lump the ball into the box is a worrying one. Give Declan a chance, he''s not let us down yet.

[BroadstairsR 2,232]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]Bunn is what he is ....... a good second option for a team, not a regular first team keeper. He would normally be called on for a game or two in cases of suspension or minor injury it is just unfortunate that JR''s injury is so severe. To call for Craig Gordon, who hasn''t played in the Premiership for months, or Cudicinni who can''t displace three other keepers at his club and has been an occassional keeper since 2006, is ludicrous. Bunn was at fault only for the fourth goal where he was beaten on his near post. He is no John Ruddy but he is judged as the best we have available by the best goalkeeping coach in the country. He has more knowledge of the position and the game than I have ............ or the several posters on this thread.[/quote]

 

What a load of twaddle and insulting fellow posters to boot.

 

I, for one, have little confidence in Bunn filling Ruddy''s shoes for the next few months. He makes me and the defence nervous. This is a vital position. He was a disaster yesterday and not just for the fourth goal. His overall decision making is panicky. He certainly does need the best goalkeeping coach in the country, big time. He can be brilliant at saving, but there is a lot more to the position than that.

 

Cudicini is a brilliant keeper with experience and command. He is third choice at Spurs because they are Spurs, well-funded and stacked with talent to spare (eg. Kane.) I''ve seen Cudicini many times live and he ouzes class. Excellent in the box as well, which I do not consider Bunn to be.

 

I would rather him bridge the gap than  Bunn, although I would be tempted to give Rudd a try out in the FA Cup first.

 

[Pyro Pete 1,941]

I''ve always thought Hughton would bring in another keeper in January. If Bunn did well, it needed only be a cheap cover option. However, because Bunn has been questionable, I expect Hughton has little option but to spend a few quid on a quality keeper, if he can find/acquire one.I''d rather not slag off Bunn. But I''m sure our goalkeeping coaches have noted the many flaws to Bunn''s game in past few matches.

[Yellow Wal 314]

Bunn is what he is ....... a good second option for a team, not a regular first team keeper. He would normally be called on for a game or two in cases of suspension or minor injury it is just unfortunate that JR''s injury is so severe. To call for Craig Gordon, who hasn''t played in the Premiership for months, or Cudicinni who can''t displace three other keepers at his club and has been an occassional keeper since 2006, is ludicrous. Bunn was at fault only for the fourth goal where he was beaten on his near post. He is no John Ruddy but he is judged as the best we have available by the best goalkeeping coach in the country. He has more knowledge of the position and the game than I have ............ or the several posters on this thread.

What a load of twaddle and insulting fellow posters to boot.

I, for one, have little confidence in Bunn filling Ruddy''s shoes for the next few months. He makes me and the defence nervous. This is a vital position. He was a disaster yesterday and not just for the fourth goal. His overall decision making is panicky. He certainly does need the best goalkeeping coach in the country, big time. He can be brilliant at saving, but there is a lot more to the position than that.

Cudicini is a brilliant keeper with experience and command. He is third choice at Spurs because they are Spurs, well-funded and stacked with talent to spare (eg. Kane.) I''ve seen Cudicini many times live and he ouzes class. Excellent in the box as well, which I do not consider Bunn to be.

I would rather him bridge the gap than  Bunn, although I would be tempted to give Rudd a try out in the FA Cup first.

Cudicini is so good that after Spurs bought him in early 2009 to compete with Heurelho Gomes they found it necessary to purchase Brad Friedel in 2011 and Hugo Lloris in 2012.

In the last three and a half seasons he has played 20 games and has three keepers in front of him and is fourth choice. With so many clubs needing good keepers, and Spurs having four, it would have been thought he would have moved on long before now if others rated him as highly as you.

I believe both Rudd and Steer can become good keepers in the future but their progress should be handled carefully, by people who know.

I am not totally happy with Bunn, as I said, he is no John Ruddy, but I do get a bit fed up with people continually complaining about our players.

Still, at least it gives Steve Morison a breather.

[BroadstairsR 2,232]

Sorry Yellow Wall but commenting on the fact that a player had a poor game is not complaining. It is just that, commenting on a player who had a poor game.

 

This is vital. We have done brilliantly to get to our present position and I don''t want it jeopodised by a dodgy keeper for a couple of months. I distinctly remember when we got relegated before due to an injury to Gunn and had an inadequate replacement and I don''t want it to happen again.

 

After the first five minutes yesterday it went through my mind that the defence did not seem comfortable and I believe that this was partly/mainly due to Bunn.

 

We will agree to differ over Cudicini, but I would prefer some experienced cover from somewhere for a temporary spell.

 

As I said before, this position is vital.

 

All players have bad games and although Bunn has never failed to convince me I am prepared to give him one more chance, such is my benevolence. [:)]

[Yellow Wal 314]

Broadstairs I can understand your concern even though you make the comment that "It is just that, commenting on a player who had a poor game." but then refer to him as a dodgy keeper.

As I said, I am not overwhelmed by the thought of not having John Ruddy for the next couple of months (incidentally is there any news on his injury?) but I am fairly certain that we have enough in reserve.

We have Dave Watson to make the most of what we have and his judgement and the judgement of Chris Hughton will decide whether or not we go for more experience/better options and in them I trust.

At least this time I feel the manager will be able to decide whereas with Bryan Gunn/Andy Marshall I felt the Chairman had a big say as to whether we spent the money to bring in somebody else. I think he decided not to, but again on that occasion we only had one option available to us whereas now we have three keepers, all of whom could step in.

[BroadstairsR 2,232]

I said ''a dodgy keeper'' Yellow Wall as a generalisation thinking of the Gunn fiasco and added that he maybe needs a chance to redeem himself in my concluding point..

 

Incidentally, I think that there are similarities between Bunn and Marshall. Marshall could be brilliant on the line too, but his box play was less impressive, like Bunn''s.

 

Whilst I agree with your point about him being a decent back up for a game or two, this will be a third of the season so it is vital that this important position is well tended.

 

Lambert was happy to rely on Rudd as back up, so maybe if Bunn continues to panic his way through games we should finally use the youngster. As you say we have an experienced coach for  that position and a canny manager.

 

It will be interesting to see what transpires over the next week.

[Orford65 0]

Why do we always feel the need to find a scapegoat when things are not going our way?There were several other players who were below par yesterday and even Gordon Banks would have had nightmares playing behind our defence.I seem to remember that Ruddy wasn''t deemed good enough and up to standard when he first arrived and the general consensus of opinion was that we needed a better keeper. Give the guy a break. He''s not the best keeper in this division, but there are worse.

[Yellow Shirt 17]

No way is bunn a prem keeper.Too small and only makes reaction saves.Huge kick but does nothing with it and generally only hoofs his distribution.Average Championship keeper. Was a waste of money and now I worry that Hughton is playing him rather than admit he was a pointless buy.

[BroadstairsR 2,232]

I actually just Wiki''d him Yellow Shirt. His playing career is not particularly distinguished. Also, it says he is a six footer. Is this correct?

Years
2001–2008	Northampton Town	90	(0)
2004	→ Kettering Town (loan)	?	(?)
2008–2012	Blackburn Rovers	6	(0)
2009	→ Leicester City (loan)	3	(0)
2009–2010	→ Sheffield United (loan)	32	(0)
2012–	Norwich City	7

 

 

I don''t see it as scapegoating if a player is considered to be below standard. Let''s see, but I don''t want to threaten our status.

[Yellow Wal 314]

Broadstairs - He probably is 6 feet but that is, I am afraid, quite short for a modern goalkeeper.

I was friendly with City keeper Clive Baker, who went on to play for Barnsley and Ipswich, when he was a youngster and I wonder if he would get a game these days as he was only 5''9" or 5''10".

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]Bunn is what he is ....... a good second option for a team, not a regular first team keeper. He would normally be called on for a game or two in cases of suspension or minor injury it is just unfortunate that JR''s injury is so severe. To call for Craig Gordon, who hasn''t played in the Premiership for months, or Cudicinni who can''t displace three other keepers at his club and has been an occassional keeper since 2006, is ludicrous. Bunn was at fault only for the fourth goal where he was beaten on his near post. He is no John Ruddy but he is judged as the best we have available by the best goalkeeping coach in the country. He has more knowledge of the position and the game than I have ............ or the several posters on this thread.[/quote]

 

What a load of twaddle and insulting fellow posters to boot.

 

I, for one, have little confidence in Bunn filling Ruddy''s shoes for the next few months. He makes me and the defence nervous. This is a vital position. He was a disaster yesterday and not just for the fourth goal. His overall decision making is panicky. He certainly does need the best goalkeeping coach in the country, big time. He can be brilliant at saving, but there is a lot more to the position than that.

 

Cudicini is a brilliant keeper with experience and command. He is third choice at Spurs because they are Spurs, well-funded and stacked with talent to spare (eg. Kane.) I''ve seen Cudicini many times live and he ouzes class. Excellent in the box as well, which I do not consider Bunn to be.

 

I would rather him bridge the gap than  Bunn, although I would be tempted to give Rudd a try out in the FA Cup first.

 

[/quote]

And this is insulting to Chris Hughton and England coach Dave Watson. So they know less about who should play in goal than a bunch of fans with keyboards?

If they think Bunn is not up to it then they''ll replace him irrespective of what anyone else thinks. If not then we have to support their judgement and support Bunn when he plays.

On that subject, new keeper makes an error against top team. Shock horror! Whatever next? Our players are human and make mistakes? Didn''t see that coming.

Shame they are not as perfect as their critics.

[Weve (no longer) Got Angus 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]Coming out and going to ground for the second goal was crazy.... He didn''t get back on his line giving djeko an open goal...

For the 3rd goal, aguero is running out of space, his only option would have been to try and blast it into the far post if bunn holds his line... By coming out he exposed himself to the chip....

The 4th was just bad luck, but the 2 examples above and we would''ve won 3 2....

Bunn seems a panicky goalkeeper, which leads to his decision making and positioning going to pot....

I can''t help but wonder what the score would have been with ruddy.[/quote]

 

What a lazy, ill-informed thread!

Second goal, Bunn was sorely let down by Javier Garrido, if Garrido stays on the line where he originally covers dzeko doesnt have a tap in!

Third goal, Bunn is helpless, if anything Bassong must do better, Bunn does everything he can, no keeper would stay on his line, the whole point is that you''re trying to narrow the angle to make it harder for the striker to hit the target, but he''s been beaten by a sublime finish!

I wish everyone would stop comparing Bunn to Ruddy, they are different people and Ruddy is injured, so no Ruddy wouldn''t have done better because hes hobbling around being injured you fool!!

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

I suppose the masses of this message board need a new scape goat now Morrison is injured.

[BroadstairsR 2,232]

"And this is insulting to Chris Hughton and England coach Dave Watson. So they know less about who should play in goal than a bunch of fans with keyboards?

If they think Bunn is not up to it then they''ll replace him irrespective of what anyone else thinks. If not then we have to support their judgement and support Bunn when he plays.

On that subject, new keeper makes an error against top team. Shock horror! Whatever next? Our players are human and make mistakes? Didn''t see that coming.

Shame they are not as perfect as their critics."

 

Why is it insulting to be nervous about a player? What''s keyboards got to do with it? It''s discussion amongst fans for goodness sake.

 

It wasn''t just one mistake either there''s more to it than that. I have not rated him from his first showing and I''m not the only one.

 

Of course I trust Hiughton''s judgement above any of us and of course he will sort it out if there''s a problem.

 

We do have a right to express an opinion though.

 

Who said anything about being perfect? 

---

[Orford65 0]

It wasn''t just one mistake either there''s more to it than that. I have

not rated him from his first showing and I''m not the only one.........and how did you and the ''others'' rate Ruddy when he first arrived?

[BroadstairsR 2,232]

What''s that got to do with it?

 

The answer to your question is I don''t remember. I don''t recall exopressing an opinion at all to be honest.

 

Blimey all a few of us are doing is expressing an opinion about a player in a vital position who is likely to represent us for some time and at a crucial period of the season.

 

Nobody is slaughtering the chap, just expressing a degree of concern. 

 

The concern is that he doesn''t seem too good at controlling his box. I had thought this before yesterday. Let''s hope he improves with confidence. Believe you me. I want to rate him. His role will be important to us for a while.

 

Let''s just see.

[nutty nigel 7,676]

He''s not John Ruddy. If we get a keeper in on loan he wouldn''t be either. Ruddy is England''s number two keeper. Was quite possibly England number one on form when he got injured. He is the only one of our players to have a realistic chance of playing for a CL club. If anybody thinks we would have a like for like player sitting on the bench, or that such a player would be available on loan, they are living in cloud cuckoo land. Let''s just hope Ruddy recovers quicker than expected.

 

 

[BroadstairsR 2,232]

It will amount to a third of the season NN so Hoots has to get it right.

 

Perhaps I am paranoid about the Gunn experience. Others to it seems.

[nutty nigel 7,676]

I can''t be paranoid about 94/95. Losing Gunn was the final straw after all those players Big Fat Bob had sold. We didn''t get relegated because we lost Gunn, we got relegated because we were sh1t. If anything the loss of Ruddy is worse than the loss of Gunn. Much as I loved Gunny I reckon Ruddy is a bigger loss.

 

 

[Budapest Canary 152]

If Ruddy is really out for another couple of months, I''d put in a bid on Bolton red-haired keeper Adam Bogdan. Full Hungary international, last season was Bolton''s first choice over Jaaskalainen, far above Championship level. Same age and height as Ruddy,and might be tempted by a possible return into the Prem.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,821]

I suppose we''ll find out possibly as early as the next 48 hrs as to whether Hughton and Watson have faith in Bunn potentially up to the end of March.

When we signed him would they couldnt have thought that they would need to play him for nearly half the season as could well be the case?, instead possibly for a game or two here and there.

Had we known Ruddy was going to be out for this length of time would we have gone out and replaced him with a sub goalkeeper from a Championship side who had only ever played 6 Premiership games??.....I''d suggest maybe not.

[PurpleCanary 5,606]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I can''t be paranoid about 94/95. Losing Gunn was the final straw after all those players Big Fat Bob had sold. We didn''t get relegated because we lost Gunn, we got relegated because we were sh1t. If anything the loss of Ruddy is worse than the loss of Gunn. Much as I loved Gunny I reckon Ruddy is a bigger loss.

 

 

[/quote]

 

We are not Man City or Real Madrid. We can''t have top-quality replacements in every position. So, for example, we can live with Tierney being the stand-in for Garrido. But goalkeeper is THE most important position in the team. I have only seen Bunn against Wigan, when he had little to do, but it is fairly obvious from a whole host of posters here that not only is he some way short of Ruddy in ability, he is also pretty fallible. He makes too many mistakes. I would say he was at fault for two goals yesteday - the second and fourth.

I don''t know what we have to spend this January, and who might be available, but we are not yet safe. And we cannot afford to let Bunn learn on the job. The parallels with THAT awful season are not exact, but they are not too far removed either. If there is, and we can, we should.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="canarygirl"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

People need to stop comparing him to Ruddy, he''s an England goal keeper and one of our top players there woud be something wrong if the stand in keeper was consistently as good as Ruddy. Bunn does ok as a second choice we need to stick with him and get behind him as a loss of confidence from a keeper is the biggest threat to us imo. Also what top keeper will come here to be understudy to Ruddy, unless it''s on loan.

[/quote],

Well said, the more he plays the more he will improve, just look back at some of  the threads from expert panelists about Ruddy early on in his time here, there is an eerie silence from them now, perhaps some of them have converted to the "lets bash Morro under any circumstances" cult, he will learn from his mistakes and as you say confidence is key so lets back him all the way. We have good goal keeping coaches and they will do their job and help him develop to be as good as he can be. [/quote]

 

The problem with that argument is that Ruddy is still only 26, and has obviously worked on his game in the time he''s been at Norwich. He is a better keeper than he was two years ago. Bunn, meanwhile, is 28 and has already played 145 first-team games in goal. Even - and this is by no means certain - he can improve (and there is not much he can do about being small by modern goal-keeping standards) do we have the luxury of being able to allow him to do it while we are struggling for points?

[/quote]

Yes purple he is 28 but before coming to us I

think he had only played 6 PL games. The quality of strikers, quickness

of thought etc. that he is now facing is a big jump from where he has

played most of his football and he does have a lot to learn, we have

quality coaches and I would put my money on him showing a lot of

improvement with their input as he continues to play and gain

experience. I will put my faith in the expertise of those that signed

him and are looking after him now. He is a bit older than Ruddy but

really 28 is not very old for a keeper and his age should not

necessarily suggest that he is too old to learn.  Ideally we would have a

team with 11 fully accomplished and experience PL pro`s, the reality is

however that we are not at that point in our development as a club and

we will always have players who are at different stages of  football

maturity. Apologies that this reply is in purple by the way, it just

hapened and I couldn`t change it.[:D]

[PurpleCanary 5,606]

[quote user="canarygirl"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="canarygirl"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

People need to stop comparing him to Ruddy, he''s an England goal keeper and one of our top players there woud be something wrong if the stand in keeper was consistently as good as Ruddy. Bunn does ok as a second choice we need to stick with him and get behind him as a loss of confidence from a keeper is the biggest threat to us imo. Also what top keeper will come here to be understudy to Ruddy, unless it''s on loan.

[/quote]

,







Well said, the more he plays the more he will improve, just look back at some of  the threads from expert panelists about Ruddy early on in his time here, there is an eerie silence from them now, perhaps some of them have converted to the "lets bash Morro under any circumstances" cult, he will learn from his mistakes and as you say confidence is key so lets back him all the way. We have good goal keeping coaches and they will do their job and help him develop to be as good as he can be.
[/quote]

 

The problem with that argument is that Ruddy is still only 26, and has obviously worked on his game in the time he''s been at Norwich. He is a better keeper than he was two years ago. Bunn, meanwhile, is 28 and has already played 145 first-team games in goal. Even - and this is by no means certain - he can improve (and there is not much he can do about being small by modern goal-keeping standards) do we have the luxury of being able to allow him to do it while we are struggling for points?

[/quote]











Yes purple he is 28 but before coming to us I think he had only played 6 PL games. The quality of strikers, quickness of thought etc. that he is now facing is a big jump from where he has played most of his football and he does have a lot to learn, we have quality coaches and I would put my money on him showing a lot of improvement with their input as he continues to play and gain experience. I will put my faith in the expertise of those that signed him and are looking after him now. He is a bit older than Ruddy but really 28 is not very old for a keeper and his age should not necessarily suggest that he is too old to learn.  Ideally we would have a team with 11 fully accomplished and experience PL pro`s, the reality is however that we are not at that point in our development as a club and we will always have players who are at different stages of  football maturity. Apologies that this reply is in purple by the way, it just hapened and I couldn`t change it.[:D]
[/quote]

 

canarygirl, I agree with a great deal of that, including that Bunn MIGHT improve. But (as mentioned in my later post) can we afford to gamble on that happening, and happening extremely quickly this season?

[Highland Canary 76]

Nutty - I agree we got relegated in 94/95 because we were shockingly poor but a significant contributory factor was the loss of Gunn. I think it prudent that we invest in an experienced GK as competition for Bunn. Think of it as an insurance cost we have to suffer as a result of Ruddy''s injury.