Why wasn't Wagner backed in the January window?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,756]

Beacause looking back in hindsight it does all seem rather silly. Even back then we had squad depth issue lssues and a real lack of any strength in our substitutions.

And what do we do? Sell players, loan others out and bring in Hooijdonk at the last second to replace Idah whos been sent off and who it seems isn't even trusted to help us out anymore if yesterday is anything to go by.

Does all seem rather strange and I get the feeling if we bottle the playoffs and finish outside of them our lack of depth will be looked at as part of the issue as to why.

And oooh spicy video I found. Seems Wagner is saying he was not backed..

 

Edited April 10 by cambridgeshire canary

[Jim Smith 2,325]

Probably because he’s a rubbish coach snd they didn’t want to waste money signing players for a coach they knew they’d probably be getting rid of in the summer.

[KeiranShikari 1,424]

Because we don't have very much money and If we did it wouldn't surprise me if they were planning for the next coach.

[S_81 816]

Who’s to say Sydney wasn’t Wagner’s call? Frankly the whole situation is so unusual that we just don’t know. It’s high time the local media delved a bit more into it though and put him or Knapper on the hook about why we’ve ended up in this situation. 

[KeiranShikari 1,424]

Just now, S_81 said:

Who’s to say Sydney wasn’t Wagner’s call? Frankly the whole situation is so unusual that we just don’t know. It’s high time the local media delved a bit more into it though and put him or Knapper on the hook about why we’ve ended up in this situation. 

No manager is willingly throwing away a player who's generally doing well for him and replacing him with a guy who has played about 200 minutes during the first half of the season. I doubt he'd be talking about the trimmed down squad as often if he was happy about it.

It's of course logical for Knapper, who is thinking about Idah's potential value going forward. Or even thinking that a run of games in Scotland could be beneficial for him here going forward.

Maybe there's more to it than that but I'd be shocked if Wagner wanted that move.

 

[duke63 544]

Because we didn't have any money to do so.

Football is not like FIFA24 where money just drops out of the clouds.

[Yobocop 1,105]

15 minutes ago, duke63 said:

Because we didn't have any money to do so.

Football is not like FIFA24 where money just drops out of the clouds.

It’s Cambridgeshire canary’s world and we’re all living in it 😉 

[Capt. Pants 4,263]

To be fair Wagner isn't happy about having a thin squad and is clearly making a point with not playing SVH under any circumstances and probably also by taking Sarge off.

Running the squad down to these sort of levels is really quite concerning and you have to worry who we'll have left should we fail to get promotion.

[Matt Juler 155]

The strategy for January would have been under discussion some time before and it's really nothing short of a miracle that we are where we are now based on say our position of 14th and seven points behind the playoffs places back on the 1st December. 

I'm confident that the plan was (and potentially still is) to move on from Wagner this summer, so not investing in the squad was a logical decision ahead of a rebuild.

[S_81 816]

46 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

No manager is willingly throwing away a player who's generally doing well for him and replacing him with a guy who has played about 200 minutes during the first half of the season. I doubt he'd be talking about the trimmed down squad as often if he was happy about it.

It's of course logical for Knapper, who is thinking about Idah's potential value going forward. Or even thinking that a run of games in Scotland could be beneficial for him here going forward.

Maybe there's more to it than that but I'd be shocked if Wagner wanted that move.

 

I’d also be shocked if that was the case. But I’d be also shocked if he wasn’t consulted and even had mild agreement about the replacement. Even if he had no control over Idah going on loan. Which - again - I’d be shocked he didn’t have input into. 

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

I suspect there isn't any money in the pot, and the options were:

a). Flog a star player to generate a January transfer budget

b). Don't flog a star player but don't expect to do any other business

And that the majority of us would have chosen option A

Any other possibility, for example further financing from Mark Attanasio, just isn't going to happen, because as he has made clear we will continue the 'self funding' model and Ben Knapper has been brought in because he will operate a player trading model.

Self funding + player trading = flogging a player to fund other acquisitions.

Which one would you have flogged in January then Cambridgeshire, Sargent, Sara or Rowe?

Edited April 10 by JonnyJonnyRowe

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

2 hours ago, KeiranShikari said:

No manager is willingly throwing away a player who's generally doing well for him and replacing him with a guy who has played about 200 minutes during the first half of the season. I doubt he'd be talking about the trimmed down squad as often if he was happy about it.

It's of course logical for Knapper, who is thinking about Idah's potential value going forward. Or even thinking that a run of games in Scotland could be beneficial for him here going forward.

Maybe there's more to it than that but I'd be shocked if Wagner wanted that move.

Wagner has said that it was Idah who was desperate for the move, you seem to be missing the third party here.

[repman 635]

It’s almost certainly down to money, and Knapper trying to get a jumpstart on next season when there’ll be even less money. Even as we sit 6th the chances of promotion are pretty slim I would say.

I think there are quite a few parallels to when Webber joined, an old expensive squad not quite meeting expectations on the pitch with the end of parachute payments on the horizon. The big difference is that Webber had a full season before parachute payments ended, this time we’ve spent significant 2 years straight trying to claw our way back to the prem.

If we don’t go up we’re going to be forced to sell 2 or 3 of our best players, but how much of that money will be reinvested in the squad is another question. The need to get younger is based on the fact that we need to elongate our window of opportunity. The squad as it stands is in a win now shape, and I’m not sure we were ever close enough to say let’s push more chips in.

[Midlands Yellow 4,018]

We were around 10/1 to make the Play-Offs going into the new year. Apart from Lakey (to his credit) I think most had wrote the season off.

[Indy 3,307]

Unfortunately we’re a club in full transition, from premier money and squad to championship, we have massive debt held by MA who with his set up and a year later still waiting to be formally granted joint ownership of this club! Until that happens I’m not sure MA will fund much more.

So going into this summer in this division without promotion will have a massive impact. I think Wagner without promotion will be gone, I think we’ll have a new coach and coaching team focused on developing our youth culture, there will be a lot of higher earners out the door and it might take a good few years to readjust at board room and squad to anywhere near promotion again.

Just the way of football, we’ve had the high we’re adjusting to our low now, so I think promotion is crucial for our squad development and finances.

Edited April 10 by Indy

[hogesar 9,709]

I said at the time, so it's hardly hindsight, that Knapper was actively weakening us in January. 

The argument was it's long term benefits but I think that takes for granted how difficult finishing in the play-offs actually is.

We now have a manager who gets slaughtered every time we lose, despite having no game-changers on the bench, or even a fit and capable championship striker on the bench.

For me, if Knapper was going to weaken us in January, he should have also employed his own manager. Fall on his own sword, so to speak. Instead he'll let Wagner take the heat because he'll want to replace him at the end of season anyway.

It seems pretty unfair to me and if Webber had done the above he'd be getting absolute pelters.

Still, if he gets the next management decision right it'll be forgotten about, at least.

[Ray 111]

Midlands Yellow, I managed to get 26 on Betfair on 3rd Feb for promotion, now down to 7.6, here's hoping??

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

Because money's tight.

Next.

[Indy 3,307]

7 minutes ago, hogesar said:

We now have a manager who gets slaughtered every time we lose, despite having no game-changers on the bench, or even a fit and capable championship striker on the bench.

That is true, but to temper that a tad, he also uses the same old tactic which never works and costs us results by playing Barnes as a lone striker! He can’t hold a ball up, his movement is non existent and all he does is cost free kicks! 
Definition of madness to do exact same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome!

Try something else, VH up top would have been more effective than Barnes in that second half.

I totally agree about lack of support in January and I believe without promotion Wagner is a goner. Criticism is justified when you do have an alternative striker on the bench who needs game time but you keep a totally ineffective striker on the pitch, as some say playing Barnes as a lone striker is like having ten men!

Edited April 10 by Indy

[Ulfotto 640]

See the hill that I would die on thread I started a couple of weeks ago. It’s weird when Wagner name was mud the board where happy to back the guy. Somehow he has managed to get the team playing and they were reluctant to back the guy. Given that it’s likely the only scenario where he is here next season is if we are promoted I’m surprised the guy hasn’t had a pop at the board for the failure to back him.

I feel sorry for Wagner the guy has been setup to fail. The playoffs will come down to one point here or there. Just another loan signing or keeping Idah might be the difference.

Feel we will need to beat 3 wins from four that means beating either Brum or Preston away from home.

[Gordon Bennett 787]

Somebody dropped a b ollock with the Idah/SvH situation. Simple as that really. 

However rest doesn't explain or excuse the missed chances last night. Game should have been won long before Sarge was withdrawn. 

Edited April 10 by Gordon Bennett

[Gordon Bennett 787]

Somebody dropped a **** with the Idah/SvH situation. Simple as that really. 

However that doesn't explain or excuse the missed chances last night. Game should have been won long before Sarge was withdrawn. 

Edited April 10 by Gordon Bennett

[norfolkngood 1,087]

to be fair to the Board i would not have Backed Wagner in Jan Window either but the Idah loan situation is a embarrassment  

i  agree with Hog that the squad was weakened replacing a striker who was scoring from the bench with SVH who is totally overlooked is utter madness ,

Idah might well of wanted the move in fact he might of refused to play who knows but if you are letting him leave why oh why was the striker brought in to replace him not of the style we wanted or have something Different about him to change the game ,

That was a knappers first signing he had months to get that right and had seen hundreds of younger players in his career at arsenal ,

i didn't expect the club to blow loads of money to get to play offs as the team did not look like it was going anywhere until Sarge returned but to loan a player of who the manager does not play when needed  is madness 

 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

We don’t have much money and we have made it clear our ethos as a club is to develop young players. It’s hard to develop young players if you never trust them to come off the bench and do a job for you. For me it’s a poor excuse. Farke threw Aarons straight in the deep end and his trust was rewarded. 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

13 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Somebody dropped a **** with the Idah/SvH situation. Simple as that really. 

However rest doesn't explain or excuse the missed chances last night. Game should have been won long before Sarge was withdrawn. 

It’s hard to judge someone on barely 20 mins of first team football. 

[shefcanary 2,435]

Bloody hell. We're in the Championship, we have no spare cash, our investors don't feel confident enough yet to bankroll the Head coach.

And most importantly we have lots of youngsters busting a gut to play (Welch, Aboh, etc.) that other Championship managers would gladly put on the pitch, but Wagner doesn't. As he also doesn't play SvH (I'll leave others to debate this). These are the choices Wagner makes, and it is super, super important that he realises making statements like last night's does him no favours when he doesn't back it up by at least giving those youngsters a run out.

Last night was crying out for something to get Wednesday thinking about us in their half, rather than just focusing on bludgeoning us to death, but Wagner for whatever reason never changed it up - **** poor management yet again from Mr Cautious. 

So to come out with that criticism of the "backing he got in the transfer window" after he seemingly got his way in the summer window with all those "super experienced" 30 years olds is a bit rich. How many more 30 year old journeymen does he want? 

Trust in youth David. At least occasionally, if not all the time. 

[Segura 84]

Loaning a striker to Celtic/Rangers used to be a common trick used by Prem/Champs clubs to trigger interest in said player and increase a potential fee.

So I think we can safely kiss Idah goodbye and that decision may come back to haunt us.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

32 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Somebody dropped a **** with the Idah/SvH situation. Simple as that really. 

However rest doesn't explain or excuse the missed chances last night. Game should have been won long before Sarge was withdrawn. 

The missing bit of that truth is that the lad was lacking in confidence, which was exacerbated by negative reception of him by many fans, which limited limited his usefulness while also harming his financial value as an asset. It's simply irrefutabe that the move to Celtic has been massively beneficial to his development.

Edited April 10 by littleyellowbirdie

[norfolkngood 1,087]

5 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

It’s hard to judge someone on barely 20 mins of first team football. 

i did wonder why there were loads of footballs in the NNUH car park maybe he is not good at finishing when training ? 

but i agree that is how you find out what you have play the youngster or SVH and tell them this is your chance to shine etc

we needed someone harassing their CB's last night not giving them time to play chasing down lost causes ,

the scoring had been done we had the lead   the important bit was defending from the front which stopped when sarge went off 

[Keith Scott 245]

Tinpot owners.

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.