Time to accept that Wagner is doing a good job

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

Delivered 4 points against Ipswich.

8 successive home wins.

Has successfully delivered a superb breakthrough season for the latest big talent off the Colney production line.

Has got his players giving 100% for him, showed the door to one who he felt wasn't fully committed just like Farke would have done with his no nonsense approach.

Is on course for the top 6 finish which would have been the realistic expectation with Leicester, Leeds and Southampton the three relegated sides, despite losing some key players to injury, mainly the Sargent and Gunn injuries but also now the injury to two wingers, if he delivers this it will be despite zero spend on permanent transfers in the January window.

He's also been creative in finding solutions, including using Kenny McLean at left centre back to maintain a balance in the side when losing Gibson.

Its time to accept that Wagner is doing a good job with the resources at his disposal. As long as he does deliver the 6th with no last minute bottling, and we give the play offs a proper go with some serious fight, I vote for keeping him next season.

Edited April 6 by JonnyJonnyRowe

[Midlands Yellow 4,015]

11 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

Delivered 4 points against Ipswich.

8 successive home wins.

Has successfully delivered a superb breakthrough season for the latest big talent off the Colney production line.

Has got his players giving 100% for him, showed the door to one who he felt wasn't fully committed just like Farke would have done with his no nonsense approach.

Is on course for the top 6 finish which would have been the realistic expectation with Leicester, Leeds and Southampton the three relegated sides, despite losing some key players to injury, mainly the Sargent and Gunn injuries but also now the injury to two wingers, if he delivers this it will be despite zero spend on permanent transfers in the January window.

He's also been creative in finding solutions, including using Kenny McLean at left centre back to maintain a balance in the side when losing Gibson.

Its time to accept that Wagner is doing a good job with the resources at his disposal. As long as he does deliver the 6th with no last minute bottling, and we give the play offs a proper go with some serious fight, I vote for keeping him next season.

A really sound and nice man too, hope he’s still here next season regardless how the season ends. 

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

If you pop over to TWTD, there is actually a lot of humility with people saying we got the tactics bang on. 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,333]

Accepted this a long time ago. 

[Danke bitte 967]

I feel for Wagner as he has the whiff of Webber about him. And that’s something he’ll always have. It’s probably why a large proportion of the fan base hasn’t taken to him. 

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

1 minute ago, Danke bitte said:

I feel for Wagner as he has the whiff of Webber about him. And that’s something he’ll always have. It’s probably why a large proportion of the fan base hasn’t taken to him. 

I saw a video of Huddersfield-era  Wagner on YouTube from when Webber left them, where he was quite dismissive of Webber and his individual importance, was probably just sour grapes, but I don't think it was necessarily a case of them being mates or being particularly close at all, rather that Webber just knew what he was getting with Wagner.

I will try and find that video when I've got a bit more time.

[Danke bitte 967]

3 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

I saw a video of Huddersfield-era  Wagner on YouTube from when Webber left them, where he was quite dismissive of Webber and his individual importance, was probably just sour grapes, but I don't think it was necessarily a case of them being mates or being particularly close at all, rather that Webber just knew what he was getting with Wagner.

I will try and find that video when I've got a bit more time.

When you say a bit more time.. time away from enjoy the next tipple that comes your way?! 😁😁

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,827]

Credit where it's due, he has done very well on the whole this season. 

I think we were all pretty unanimous in wanting him gone in November, and I didn't think he was ever going to turn it around, but with some important players returning from injury and a little less naivety in midfield, he has done a brilliant job.

I'm still not completely convinced about next season because Knapper is clearly here for the long haul and I'm not sure if they share the same vision and philosophy, so we'll have to wait and see.

[Ken Hairy 3,774]

I think there's still question marks regarding his tactics in away games, but our home form cannot be questioned.

Edited April 6 by Ken Hairy

[Michael Starr 519]

We beat Ipswich today but ultimately, we are where we should be under any coach with this set of players. Top 6. He's got us there. I wouldn't say he's been brilliant. He's been on par over the course of a season on what was expected of him. That's what has kept him in his job. Top 6. I would say that with a better head coach, we would have perhaps already secured top 6 by now.

[crab man 164]

Given the injuries we had earlier in the season i'm not sure many managers would have done much better. 

Credit where its due and I hope he and the management team are here next season. OTBC 

[hogesar 9,708]

He has delivered. 

Genuine questions with all our injuries why we didn't adapt but you could argue would we be as good as we are now with this system had we not done so? Arguable certainly.

Had we not lost Sargent and several others for long periods I think we would be far more comfortable in playoffs.

[Capt. Pants 4,262]

Ultimately it's down to Knapper, not the Pinkun.

I would suggest it's still a bit up in the air and we don't have to accept anything.

[Ulfotto 640]

Will be interesting what the club does if we don’t go up which is still the most realistic way the season will end. Do you back Wagner or sack Wagner? Personally I think he’s done sterling work in difficult circumstances this season. Feel whichever way we decide we should commit to it. So if we go Sack get rid early doors and get Knappers man early. Alternatively back him give him the whole year and support him in the transfer market. Clearly what we should’nt do is buy players Knapper wants then sack Wagner at the first difficult run. Likewise do not sign lots of Wagner type players then sack him at the first sign of a difficult run.

 

Edited April 6 by Ulfotto

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

16 minutes ago, Michael Starr said:

 I would say that with a better head coach, we would have perhaps already secured top 6 by now.

I honestly think that any manager would have struggled to deliver that with George Long in goal for 7 games and a strikeforce of Idah, Hwang and Barnes for the first half of the season. 

Sorry but Idah, Barnes (this 2024 version) and Hwang is not the strike force of a team which should have expected to have secured top 6 by early April, and George Long is not a Championship standard keeper.

[Robert N. LiM 4,429]

I have some reservations about him, but today's not the day for that.

What you can't argue with is that his players play for him. They have done all season, even when the results weren't there. And today, when they really had to turn up, they really turned up. Fair play to him - hope he's really enjoying his evening.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

1 minute ago, Ulfotto said:

Will be interesting what the club does if we don’t go up which is still the most realistic way the season will end. Do you back Wagner or sack Wagner? Personally I think he’s done sterling work in difficult circumstances this season. Feel whichever way we decide we should commit to it. So if we go Sack get rid early doors and get Knappers man early. Alternatively back him give him the whole year and support him in the transfer market. Clearly what we should’nt do is buy players Knapper wants then sack Wagner at the first difficult run. Likewise do not sign lots of Wagner type players then sack him at the first sign of a difficult run.

I think that sacking him would leave the players utterly stumped and demoralised and instantly undo the feel good factor which is associated with securing promotion. I think it would look ridiculous in the eyes of the wider football supporting community and look even more ridiculous if it fails to secure our Premier League status.

Personally I think we'll try and stay up on the cheap again to pay back some debt, and that changing manager wouldn't improve our slim chances under that set of conditions. I furthermore think that this silly desire we have for silky and progressive continental style passing football is one way to doom us to failure until we have stayed in the league for at least one season, and that any attempt to sign a 'progressive' young gun for whereverstan would end up like it has for Burnley under Kompany.

Inject some better calibre players into Wagner's style of football and that's the best chance we have of staying up a season, just like Huddersfield did under Wagner. 

[Ulfotto 640]

3 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

I think that sacking him would leave the players utterly stumped and demoralised and instantly undo the feel good factor which is associated with securing promotion. I think it would look ridiculous in the eyes of the wider football supporting community and look even more ridiculous if it fails to secure our Premier League status.

Personally I think we'll try and stay up on the cheap again to pay back some debt, and that changing manager wouldn't improve our slim chances under that set of conditions. I furthermore think that this silly desire we have for silky and progressive continental style passing football is one way to doom us to failure until we have stayed in the league for at least one season, and that any attempt to sign a 'progressive' young gun for whereverstan would end up like it has for Burnley under Kompany.

Inject some better calibre players into Wagner's style of football and that's the best chance we have of staying up a season, just like Huddersfield did under Wagner. 

I like the confidence we are going up and If we go up yep he has to stay but what if it ends in glorious failure in the playoffs what then. Back him or sack him?

[Nik Vawn 130]

He’s doing what he’s paid for, and doing it well.

[Capt. Pants 4,262]

Knapper should have done more to back him January. Did he? Not really.

We shall see.

Not the time to me discussing this but there is a fine line between a good manager and an ordinary one.

Thankfully it's not down to the Pinkun.

 

[KeiranShikari 1,423]

But his team can't defend, right?

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,827]

22 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

I honestly think that any manager would have struggled to deliver that with George Long in goal for 7 games and a strikeforce of Idah, Hwang and Barnes for the first half of the season. 

Really harsh on Barnes, who was out injured for two months during our bleak autumn. We started showing signs of improvement when he returned, and then improved even further when Sargent joined him. 

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

7 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Really harsh on Barnes, who was out injured for two months during our bleak autumn. We started showing signs of improvement when he returned, and then improved even further when Sargent joined him. 

I'm not sure why you are focusing on one player, I am assessing them as a collective. I know what Barnes can bring to the team on his day as the number 10, but he's useless leading the line on his own and has never been a big goalscorer.

I was responding to the claim that a better coach would have secured top 6 by now.

Even Southampton haven't mathematically secured top 6, and they have a strike force of Che Adams, Ross Stewart, and Adam Armstrong, two of whom have had 20+ goal seasons in the Championship for former teams.

Adams, Stewart & Armstrong, versus (for a substantial part of the season) a strikeforce of Hwang, Barnes and Idah, just no comparison.

Edited April 6 by JonnyJonnyRowe

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,827]

12 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

I'm not sure why you are focusing on one player, I am assessing them as a collective.

Fair enough explanation

It just came across to me that you implied the three of them were not good enough, which is harsh on Barnes.

Hwang wasn't great, Idah did OK in certain moments, but Barnes has been very important for us this season when available.

I agree that if we had just those three then we'd be nowhere near the playoffs, but it just seemed like a blanket criticism of the three of them. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,791]

..additionally ,we have now taken

4 pts from those filthy b@stards

2 draws from Southampton

3 pts from WBA

6 pts from Hull

4 pts from Coventry

Having at least equalled ,if not bettered all of those around us, it would probably now be considered a failure if we didnt get a top 6 place...

[Conrad 171]

No more than what could reasonably be expected.

If Wagner is to be given credit he also has to take some blame. Unfortunately he has been unable to sort out our poor away performances, along with the team's tenancy to 'drop off' whenever we get in front in a game. 

Today's performance (good as it was) and result (even better) provided an indication of how we should have been playing in more games this season. If we had, a top six place would probably have been assured and we may have been competing for an automatic place. 

Edited April 6 by Conrad

[Monty13 2,235]

57 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Knapper should have done more to back him January. Did he? Not really.

We shall see.

Not the time to me discussing this but there is a fine line between a good manager and an ordinary one.

Thankfully it's not down to the Pinkun.

 

I agree, I like Wagner so I’m glad to see him turn it around. Good for him, good for everyone. 

However the complete lack of backing in January despite the constant insistence we were aiming for promotion is looking a mistake.

If we don’t get promoted this season it’s looking like it won’t be Wagner’s fault based on his 2024 performance.

Edited April 6 by Monty13

[C.I.D 302]

57 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

But his team can't defend, right?

Tell that to the Binners today .............

[Monty13 2,235]

26 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

..additionally ,we have now taken

4 pts from those filthy b@stards

2 draws from Southampton

3 pts from WBA

6 pts from Hull

4 pts from Coventry

Having at least equalled ,if not bettered all of those around us, it would probably now be considered a failure if we didnt get a top 6 place...

And we could have possibly took more from WBA if Sainz hadn’t been sent off.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

6 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

However the complete lack of backing in January despite the constant insistence we were aiming for promotion is looking a mistake.

I think the way things are going are vindicating the decision. It's clear the club calculated that the players we needed to make a difference would soon be back from injury, so there was no need to spend; it looks like they were right.

And if we had spent at levels we could realistically expect, what's the likelihood we'd have had someone come in and hit the ground running turning things around? Pretty slim, I would have thought.

Edited April 6 by littleyellowbirdie