Whinging and whining

[shefcanary 2,452]

"simple fact is Leicester have a bigger budget and have better players and probably better coach & coaches!"

And why should that be? They were no different to Norwich really in the 70's to 00's. Just another provincial city football club, the odd good season, but actually (apart from Weller in his white tights) never really outperformed us. Then they looked for an overseas investor, found one and got lucky, one who had no previous connection to the club and everything changed. Quickly at that. And a legacy has been built. 

Makes me ponder our respective recent journeys, anyway. 😉

[Mason 47 1,399]

Leicester are a good side regardless of form. There was always a reasonable possibility that they would best us on home turf, particularly as our away form isn't the best.

It is however still frustrating, given we even went a goal up (then almost got a second immediately). The crowd were turning, their players looked a bit disjointed. Then we dropped off into a narrow low block & let Leicester have the running of the game, and never really got back out.

If there's ever a week not dwell and mope, however, it's this one. We've got a parade to rain on.

[chicken 2,642]

5 hours ago, S_81 said:

Yes Leicester’s squad should be beating us. They have more in depth, for sure. But they were out of form (in relative terms) and we could have given them more of a game than we did, had we tactically tried. That’s the point that most of the measured posts on here that I’ve read were making. And is a fair point. Doesn’t mean we’d have won. But we’d have gone down fighting at least. I sincerely hope the tactics are more front foot this Saturday. 

Not really, people are saying tactically and then blaming the players. If you listen to Wagner, though it's against the "we'll take one soundbite and beat him with it" crowd, he actually talks sense.

We were not good with the ball, not good in possession. When you consider that, and the amount of possession we surrendered, and the different phases of play (when you have the ball, when they have the ball, when neither team has the ball) then you can hardly blame tactics.

It was a day where we weren't at our best and the best team in the league was closer to theirs. If you can't use the ball well, tactics go out of the window. You can't hold onto the ball and the team will be forced into being more defensive. Get the ball, keep it in the oppo final third and you force them to be more defensive.

But you know, that's not the narrative.

[Google Bot 3,301]

27 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Then they looked for an overseas investor, found one and got lucky, one who had no previous connection to the club and everything changed. Quickly at that. And a legacy has been built. 

They went into administration before that, after building their stadium, too.  It's great if someone comes save you, as they inherent all that came before at a bargain rate.   My worry would be if anyone would even come to our rescue - MA had his arm bent, and still seems to be taking the smallest steps possible.

[Making Plans 940]

Out of the 6 Clubs in the Play Off places, 5 went for it today and 1 didn't.

Being one of those 6 at start of play and with a handful of games left you really have no option but to go for it.

At this stage of the season nobody would be complaining if we had gone for it and lost.

But we didn't, Wagner lost his nerve, put the shackles on and set out for a draw.

That is why people are unhappy.

Edited April 1 by Making Plans

[Branston Pickle 3,689]

18 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Leicester are a good side regardless of form. There was always a reasonable possibility that they would best us on home turf, particularly as our away form isn't the best.

It is however still frustrating, given we even went a goal up (then almost got a second immediately). The crowd were turning, their players looked a bit disjointed. Then we dropped off into a narrow low block & let Leicester have the running of the game, and never really got back out.

If there's ever a week not dwell and mope, however, it's this one. We've got a parade to rain on.

Don’t disagree generally, but we didn’t nearly score a second almost immediately - Sainz was well offside and was flagged by the lino. 

[Commonsense 645]

5 hours ago, S_81 said:

Yes Leicester’s squad should be beating us. They have more in depth, for sure. But they were out of form (in relative terms) and we could have given them more of a game than we did, had we tactically tried. That’s the point that most of the measured posts on here that I’ve read were making. And is a fair point. Doesn’t mean we’d have won. But we’d have gone down fighting at least. I sincerely hope the tactics are more front foot this Saturday. 

First defeat for sometime and look who’s back!

[Midlands Yellow 4,079]

12 hours ago, Google Bot said:

They went into administration before that, after building their stadium, too.  It's great if someone comes save you, as they inherent all that came before at a bargain rate.   My worry would be if anyone would even come to our rescue - MA had his arm bent, and still seems to be taking the smallest steps possible.

Still owe £5m on that stadium and ripped  off many other businesses too. They deserve their points deduction coming next season. 

[Capt. Pants 4,277]

2 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Still owe £5m on that stadium and ripped  off many other businesses too. They deserve their points deduction coming next season. 

Should have had it this season. 

The legacy of them overspending in the EPL is that they have a massively strong squad and are effectively buying themselves a promotion.

They won't give a stuff about a 6pts deduction.

[stratton canary 135]

14 hours ago, Making Plans said:

Out of the 6 Clubs in the Play Off places, 5 went for it today and 1 didn't.

Being one of those 6 at start of play and with a handful of games left you really have no option but to go for it.

At this stage of the season nobody would be complaining if we had gone for it and lost.

But we didn't, Wagner lost his nerve, put the shackles on and set out for a draw.

That is why people are unhappy.

So true fella 👍 

[king canary 7,674]

15 hours ago, chicken said:

Not really, people are saying tactically and then blaming the players. If you listen to Wagner, though it's against the "we'll take one soundbite and beat him with it" crowd, he actually talks sense.

We were not good with the ball, not good in possession. When you consider that, and the amount of possession we surrendered, and the different phases of play (when you have the ball, when they have the ball, when neither team has the ball) then you can hardly blame tactics.

It was a day where we weren't at our best and the best team in the league was closer to theirs. If you can't use the ball well, tactics go out of the window. You can't hold onto the ball and the team will be forced into being more defensive. Get the ball, keep it in the oppo final third and you force them to be more defensive.

But you know, that's not the narrative.

It is a bit chicken and egg though isn't it? Did the tactics not work because we kept giving the ball away or did we keep giving the ball away due to the tactics? Personally I'd lean towards the latter.

We played in a very one dimensional way when we had the ball. If we had a goal kick, Gibson took it to Gunn, Gunn gave it back to him or passed it to Duffy, McLean or Nunez would drop deeper to receive it and then immediately play it back again because Leicester worked us out.

There was a good thread on the NCFC Analysis twitter account about the weird shape we'd set up with when we trying to build- basically pushing the fullbacks up high , midfielders even higher and the forwards dropping a bit deeper with their backs to goal. It meant Nunez or McLean had loads of space to collect the ball from the central defenders but nobody to play it to ahead of them because all the space was about 30 yards from our own goal. For that build up to work you need to actually draw the opposition forward to create space to play the ball into. We didn't do that, nor did we offer any threat in behind, meaning Leicester could hold a relatively high line and thus the entire middle of the pitch was crowded and we'd lose the ball. 

We either needed to keep some of our players a bit deeper to help draw Leicester forward and create space to play Nunez or Sara in or we needed to, on occasion, try a more direct approach into the channels for Sargent or Sainz to chase and keep Leicester honest. 

We didn't play well but the tactics absolutely played a part in that.

[nutty nigel 7,620]

I for one love to see the whingeing and whining on here. It helps take  away some of the disappointment. This place is lively, even vibrant, and of course much more fun.

I’m told there’s twice as much to talk about  when we lose. I’ve never understood why. But I say long live the whingers and whiners. It’s good to see them alive and well👍

[S_81 852]

17 hours ago, Commonsense said:

First defeat for sometime and look who’s back!

I don’t tend to criticise when we win. And don’t always when we lose. But when we are tactically stupid I ask questions.  It’s not rocket science, im not here for your friendship 

[Commonsense 645]

2 hours ago, S_81 said:

I don’t tend to criticise when we win. And don’t always when we lose. But when we are tactically stupid I ask questions.  It’s not rocket science, im not here for your friendship 

And you never ever support when we win. Hence criticism is your only contribution to the forum, which is why you’ve been so quiet recently.

[Commonsense 645]

20 hours ago, Making Plans said:

Out of the 6 Clubs in the Play Off places, 5 went for it today and 1 didn't.

Being one of those 6 at start of play and with a handful of games left you really have no option but to go for it.

At this stage of the season nobody would be complaining if we had gone for it and lost.

But we didn't, Wagner lost his nerve, put the shackles on and set out for a draw.

That is why people are unhappy.

That would make the play offs interesting . Could you explain how there can be six clubs in the play off places?

[yellowrider120 784]

5 hours ago, king canary said:

It is a bit chicken and egg though isn't it? Did the tactics not work because we kept giving the ball away or did we keep giving the ball away due to the tactics? Personally I'd lean towards the latter.

We played in a very one dimensional way when we had the ball. If we had a goal kick, Gibson took it to Gunn, Gunn gave it back to him or passed it to Duffy, McLean or Nunez would drop deeper to receive it and then immediately play it back again because Leicester worked us out.

There was a good thread on the NCFC Analysis twitter account about the weird shape we'd set up with when we trying to build- basically pushing the fullbacks up high , midfielders even higher and the forwards dropping a bit deeper with their backs to goal. It meant Nunez or McLean had loads of space to collect the ball from the central defenders but nobody to play it to ahead of them because all the space was about 30 yards from our own goal. For that build up to work you need to actually draw the opposition forward to create space to play the ball into. We didn't do that, nor did we offer any threat in behind, meaning Leicester could hold a relatively high line and thus the entire middle of the pitch was crowded and we'd lose the ball. 

We either needed to keep some of our players a bit deeper to help draw Leicester forward and create space to play Nunez or Sara in or we needed to, on occasion, try a more direct approach into the channels for Sargent or Sainz to chase and keep Leicester honest. 

We didn't play well but the tactics absolutely played a part in that.

Exactly the same happened in the away match at Coventry and travelling Yellows quickly grew annoyed with it. The home fans voiced considerable annoyance also and that was understandable.

[Six Pack 94]

On 02/04/2024 at 06:09, Branston Pickle said:

People would moan at us losing whatever - had we played well it would be along the lines that it showed we are clearly not good enough. It’s fair to moan a bit when we know we played poorly - but there’s always some who go too far.

For me, the solace in losing is threefold:  i) it hits Ipswich*, ii) we know we can play a lot, lot better, and iii) it appears the others around us were unable to capitalise.

*Moore has just gone off injured for them, which could be good for us.

wow, lets throw a few more games !!! - as long as it hurts Ipswich right ?!

[Six Pack 94]

On 02/04/2024 at 05:47, RobJames said:

...... and out they all crawl.

Firstly there is not too much Wagner can do once the players are in the pitch. I expect the fans of Cov, Preston and even WBA will be complaining about their respective defeats. It happens. For every Hull away there is often a Boro away.

Wagner and the coaching staff have taken us from 17th to a play off place. Today was always thought the hardest of the final 8. The bollox about Leicester low in confidence is just that....bollox. We travelled to Cardiff (Nov) having managed 1 point out of the previous 18 so theoretically we were 'low on confidence' and we were subsequently............ err, we won. All runs come to an end, and previous games are never any real indication of how the following game will be, unless you are completely ****.

Leicester players (ex Pl, many) have not gone away. They were runaway leaders not long back.  Look at their bench compared to ours today.  We've cobbled together a side of Duffy, Barnes and Stacey, plus low fee players with a couple of freebies thrown in. Undoubtedly the usual malcontents will whinge about that, but needs must. And far from steadying the ship for a season the coaching staff have actually got them working as a tight-knit squad taking us to the play offs.

Today was not the end of the world, as some on are whining. But it does indicate (on this forum) where loyalties lie with a number on here - and it is not in NR1.

As for me, we are still the same (Hull ?) for 6th place, only one less game to go.

Didn't Bristol City beat them ?

[Midlands Yellow 4,079]

9 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

Didn't Bristol City beat them ?

They’d lost their previous 2 home matches too (Middlesbrough and QPR) We barely laid a glove on them, a very poor performance. 

[Grumpy 123]

On 01/04/2024 at 18:25, City Stand Ultra said:

 I am also fearful for mcallum if we play the narrow back 4 we did today.  Will invite their overlapping fullbacks and expose him again  

We have been playing like that for ages,Aarons in particularly 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,594]

On 01/04/2024 at 20:59, TIL 1010 said:

So who got us to 17th in the first place Bill/City1st if it wasn't Wagner and the coaching staff ?

Injured players who weren't available? We're a long way from 17th now, underlining what a load of simplistic nonsense there is spouted about managers.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,594]

On 02/04/2024 at 16:00, nutty nigel said:

I for one love to see the whingeing and whining on here. It helps take  away some of the disappointment. This place is lively, even vibrant, and of course much more fun.

I’m told there’s twice as much to talk about  when we lose. I’ve never understood why. But I say long live the whingers and whiners. It’s good to see them alive and well👍

I know what you mean. To be honest, I found it unnerving when we were down in 17th and some people who I'd normally expect to be calling for the manager's head (and were a season before when we looked like we dropped out of the top 10, if they weren't long before that) were saying 'you can't really blame Wagner'. I think that's the first time ever I've been really worried about the club.

But he has turned things around, which goes to show you never can tell.

Edited April 3 by littleyellowbirdie

[TIL 1010 4,792]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Injured players who weren't available? We're a long way from 17th now, underlining what a load of simplistic nonsense there is spouted about managers.

Nothing to do with tactics employed or weird substitutions then ?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,594]

3 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Nothing to do with tactics employed or weird substitutions then ?

'Weird substitutions' is a common accusation, yet there have been a fair number of games where we've had supposedly weird substitutions where it has worked out well as well as those where it hasn't worked out. We don't see anything outside the games, we don't see the training, and we don't have detailed insight into the fitness of the players. Who really has enough insight to say whether they're actually weird or not, or simply reflections of the practical constraints on the manager at the time? The booing as Sargent was taken off that later turned out to be down to Sargent's fitness are a good example of that.

Edited April 3 by littleyellowbirdie