I notice Kenny

[MC_NCFC 65]

I’ll admit I never quite got Kenny McLean.

For years I’d moan I hadn’t even noticed him on the pitch. Had he done anything or did he just do the basics. I was even more frustrated when I looked back at how he played at Aberdeen. A few scoring box to box type player.

He’s been with us 7 seasons and I’ve started to see what he is about. He really makes us tick, he’s essentially for both our defensive and attacking play. He keeps possession and can play a defence splitting pass.

What has brought this change? Why now? Or has he always been this player and I just couldn’t see it before?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,720]

I imagine its his experience. He knows this club and the system better than most everyone else on the team.

Being made captain has helped and I do think he makes a better captain than Hanley ever has.

[BroadstairsR 2,168]

31 minutes ago, MC_NCFC said:

I’ll admit I never quite got Kenny McLean.

For years I’d moan I hadn’t even noticed him on the pitch. Had he done anything or did he just do the basics. I was even more frustrated when I looked back at how he played at Aberdeen. A few scoring box to box type player.

He’s been with us 7 seasons and I’ve started to see what he is about. He really makes us tick, he’s essentially for both our defensive and attacking play. He keeps possession and can play a defence splitting pass.

What has brought this change? Why now? Or has he always been this player and I just couldn’t see it before?

It's a bit of both O/P. I, too, was initially disappointed in him after his build up from Scotland aand I expected a lot more in the way you pointed out. Also, for quite some time he was never a pencilled in starter, the way he is today.

Now, he is more experienced, has his feet firmly under the table, and has made himself virtually indispensable  (at least at our current level.)

I agree with the captaincy issue as well.

Edited March 17 by BroadstairsR

[Paul101 93]

first year under Farke in the final months he was one of the first names on the sheet we was talking about it last night

[Worthy Nigelton 1,048]

He needs upgrading. If we go up with him starting week-in-week-out we deserve every bit of ridicule we get when we inevitably finish bottom again.

[Monty13 2,234]

I think many people have always been far too critical of the mistakes he makes compared to what he brings in terms of carrying the ball and his passing ability.  

I do think this season at times he’d looked just about as good as he ever has, yesterday being a case in point.

[East Rider 551]

42 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I think many people have always been far too critical of the mistakes he makes compared to what he brings in terms of carrying the ball and his passing ability.  

I do think this season at times he’d looked just about as good as he ever has, yesterday being a case in point.

Exactly this, spot on.

It is noticeable how quickly weak people follow 'sheep like' the loud moaners especially at the ground (and on here) with regards to KM. Unable to make their own reasonable assessment.

Yet we have seen Sara (who is a superb player) make numerous mistakes in games and there is not a single peep out of the same negatively minded people. 

He is an easy target for those who like to whinge.

Is he a PL top class midfielder? I don't know. Is he a top class Champs midfielder? 100% yes. Start supporting his efforts and we will reap the rewards.

[hogesar 9,675]

1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

I think many people have always been far too critical of the mistakes he makes compared to what he brings in terms of carrying the ball and his passing ability.  

I do think this season at times he’d looked just about as good as he ever has, yesterday being a case in point.

Yeah spot on.

1 hour ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

He needs upgrading. If we go up with him starting week-in-week-out we deserve every bit of ridicule we get when we inevitably finish bottom again.

Yeah but you and plenty of others said we didn't stand a chance of the playoffs with him in our midfield so apologies if I take your opinion with a pinch of salt on this particular issue! 😉

[Robert N. LiM 4,356]

He's always been considerably better than his critics suggested. I do wonder at time whether he tried to do too much and ended up being jack of all trades, master of none. Sometimes in an effort to be everywhere on the pitch he lost a bit of defensive discipline.

I think his stint at the back has been great for him. Not only has he played very well there, I wonder if it's made him a better midfielder, more aware of his defensive responsibilities and more aware that he can (paradoxically) do more damage by staying deeper and playing those excellent QB passes.

[Well b back 3,208]

Have to say I have been on the other side and could never work out why people didn’t get Kenny McClean. 
I would love to see him win POTS this year, but don’t think it will happen as even now, people criticise him, the couple of **** in the crowd at FCR a couple of games ago being a good example.

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

He has been superb this season and it's difficult to recall a poor game, or at least when every other player wasn't rubbish as well. Key is his consistency.

For a player who has been criticised for giving the ball away his passing is sublime. Wagner's system really suits him too.

POTS for me.

[Monty13 2,234]

19 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

He's always been considerably better than his critics suggested. I do wonder at time whether he tried to do too much and ended up being jack of all trades, master of none. Sometimes in an effort to be everywhere on the pitch he lost a bit of defensive discipline.

I think his stint at the back has been great for him. Not only has he played very well there, I wonder if it's made him a better midfielder, more aware of his defensive responsibilities and more aware that he can (paradoxically) do more damage by staying deeper and playing those excellent QB passes.

I think he’s suffered for years from not being a defensive midfielder when so many people want one on the pitch.

Then because he’s the most defensively minded of our CMs he seems to get stick for not being a specialist. Where as Sara in comparison is a great player but far worse than Kenny defensively, Nunez is improving but ditto IMO.

We have finally seemed to settle into a system that works defensively without a specialist DM though, at least at this level.

Edited March 17 by Monty13

[Well b back 3,208]

12 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

He has been superb this season and it's difficult to recall a poor game, or at least when every other player wasn't rubbish as well. Key is his consistency.

For a player who has been criticised for giving the ball away his passing is sublime. Wagner's system really suits him too.

POTS for me.

The actual total convincing for me was what happened when he was injured.

Unfortunately I still think those listening on radio Norfolk and Facebook will be voting for anybody but Kenny McClean as player of the season.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,048]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Yeah spot on.

Yeah but you and plenty of others said we didn't stand a chance of the playoffs with him in our midfield so apologies if I take your opinion with a pinch of salt on this particular issue! 😉

I never said that. He's average at this level and you can clearly win the league with him in your team as we have done already (if you have enough good players around him).

Even you Hog, as one of his fans, must admit he is ill-equipped for the Premier League... regardless of our differing opinions on him, surely we agree on that?

[hogesar 9,675]

9 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

I never said that. He's average at this level and you can clearly win the league with him in your team as we have done already (if you have enough good players around him).

Even you Hog, as one of his fans, must admit he is ill-equipped for the Premier League... regardless of our differing opinions on him, surely we agree on that?

I'd agree he's never looked good enough in the Premier League for us, and that's unlikely to have suddenly changed, but would always caveat it with the fact that 90% of the squad have looked ill-equipped when playing in the Prem and it's often the midfield that look the worst when a whole team is struggling at a higher level. 

 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,048]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

I'd agree he's never looked good enough in the Premier League for us, and that's unlikely to have suddenly changed, but would always caveat it with the fact that 90% of the squad have looked ill-equipped when playing in the Prem and it's often the midfield that look the worst when a whole team is struggling at a higher level. 

 

I think this might be the first Kenny debate we've had that has finished amicably! 

[shefcanary 2,409]

2 hours ago, East Rider said:

Exactly this, spot on.

It is noticeable how quickly weak people follow 'sheep like' the loud moaners especially at the ground (and on here) with regards to KM. Unable to make their own reasonable assessment.

Yet we have seen Sara (who is a superb player) make numerous mistakes in games and there is not a single peep out of the same negatively minded people. 

He is an easy target for those who like to whinge.

Is he a PL top class midfielder? I don't know. Is he a top class Champs midfielder? 100% yes. Start supporting his efforts and we will reap the rewards.

Interesting thought. Let me explain why I criticise Kenny so often. 

The main criticism I had of him is when Kenny is bad he makes game changing mistakes without providing game winning moments. And until he was switched to CB, handed the captaincy, he very often went chasing the ball unsuccessfully rather than holding his position and letting the "system" work. This often happened on a transition and led to his teammates similarly being pulled out of position, quite often Sara. In those games however Sara would be at least be involved in a goal attempt or two, if not a goal. Kenny very rarely during his bad moments did. Those goal attempts were the reason why I rarely criticised Sara but because you'd look back at the match and could only highlight Kenny's poor moments.

Switching to CB, Kenny does play in a more restrained and thoughtful manner. As others have said, one reason for this is that he plays better when the game is in front of him. He is a very poor reader of the game when he is in the middle of a hectic transition. I also think the responsibility of captaincy has allowed him to properly assess what his role really is.

I was fearful for him when Gibson returned to the side and he was moved back to his midfield role. However swapping Sara and Nunez roles in the side has helped Kenny to restrain himself and to concentrate on his strengths. Nunez seems to be better at occupying that midfield area, allowing Kenny to look for forward passes that make game changing moments. For what ever reason his pass completion on potentially risky balls seems to have improved (I'll bow to statto's here whether that is just eye test or reality).   

Against Stoke he was the key difference in the two sides. 

But, I still stand by my comments prior to this calendar year, he really was very poor and I never understood why people on here defended him. He has been a different player in 2024.

Additionally, if we do get promoted, I'm afraid we will have to upgrade on him if we are to survive. He will not get the time to produce his best passing moments in the EPL. 

I hope that explains my apparent flip flop! 

 

 

[Robert N. LiM 4,356]

55 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Nunez seems to be better at occupying that midfield area

This is a very good point. For me, Núñez has been a revelation there. I always assumed he'd be better as a ten, but he's played really well in the deeper midfield role recently, lots of good, simple passes and much more combative than I thought he could be. Yesterday's 'front six' of McLean, Núñez, Sara, Barnes, Sainz and Sargent is pretty strong at this level. Amazing that we're not really missing Rowe at the moment - not sure many would've thought that when he got injured.

[Robert N. LiM 4,356]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I'd agree

 

1 hour ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

I think this might be the first Kenny debate we've had that has finished amicably! 

This is a disgrace. Come on you two, pull yourselves together.

[hogesar 9,675]

1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said:

 

This is a disgrace. Come on you two, pull yourselves together.

Stop it, I'm already disappointed in myself

[Conrad 170]

5 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

He needs upgrading. If we go up with him starting week-in-week-out we deserve every bit of ridicule we get when we inevitably finish bottom again.

This could apply to most of our players. Even those that are considered the better ones are largely unproven in the premiership. All we can hope is that we go up and that they are all given the opportunity to prove you wrong. 

[chicken 2,625]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

I'd agree he's never looked good enough in the Premier League for us, and that's unlikely to have suddenly changed, but would always caveat it with the fact that 90% of the squad have looked ill-equipped when playing in the Prem and it's often the midfield that look the worst when a whole team is struggling at a higher level. 

 

I would argue though, that McLean has never had the personel to compliment him in the prem.

1st season up he was supposed to have Tettey/Amadou/Vrancic. The first two were pulled into centre back cover, the latter then left. Vrancic never quite had the legs for the prem and wasn't as tactically flexible as Kenny.

He did well alongside Skipp, but again, we then went up and his midfield team mates were Normann and Gilmour. Both needed time to settle, one had a lack of any real experience, the other had mainly played abroad. Yes, Lees-Melou too. Throw in some rotation as well...

When you look back, CM has been one of our most unsettled departments on the pitch. The only real constant has been Kenny.

Is it possible, that now he has played two seasons with the same midfielders around him, that he has become less relied upon to be the one to call all of the shots in there and as a result is playing with more freedom and a bit less responsibility?

[jonnyace1 26]

I would still swap Kenny and Lungi around in a heartbeat. Kenny at CB and Lungi at DM allowing Nunez and Sara the freedom to create chances .

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,273]

I think the issue with McLean is that he’s a bit of a Jack of all trades and master of none.

He’s never made the step up to the EPL, and in all honestly is a player we should’ve outgrown  and replaced upon promotion. The fact he stayed and played, pretty much summed up the issue we had recruiting players. 

None of the above is his fault of course, and he always continues to give his all. At Championship level, he’s decent. But even so, take Sara or Nunez away; and he doesn’t look half the player, even at this level.

[Hairy Canary 704]

5 hours ago, shefcanary said:

The main criticism I had of him is when Kenny is bad he makes game changing mistakes without providing game winning moments. 

 

 

Good debate.
 

I genuinely don’t mean to be facetious but what examples are you thinking of here Shef?
 

I can certainly remember misplaced passes that give rise to chances but game changing mistakes? I’m struggling to come up with more than a couple and they were ages ago - I can’t even remember the specifics.

As for game changing moments well there have been a number already in this calendar year and two in the Stoke game.

 

[hogesar 9,675]

22 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

I think the issue with McLean is that he’s a bit of a Jack of all trades and master of none.

He’s never made the step up to the EPL, and in all honestly is a player we should’ve outgrown  and replaced upon promotion. The fact he stayed and played, pretty much summed up the issue we had recruiting players. 

None of the above is his fault of course, and he always continues to give his all. At Championship level, he’s decent. But even so, take Sara or Nunez away; and he doesn’t look half the player, even at this level.

Hes more than decent at Championship level which is why anyone who's actually played football at that level has him in our starting lineup. Current players, ex players, managers. The lot.

You only have to note over the last 8 games the defence splitting passes putting the likes of Sainz and Sargent through (2 yesterday) whilst driving with the ball - something Nunez has shown an inability to do. McLean also players better long balls than Nunez.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,273]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Hes more than decent at Championship level which is why anyone who's actually played football at that level has him in our starting lineup. Current players, ex players, managers. The lot.

You only have to note over the last 8 games the defence splitting passes putting the likes of Sainz and Sargent through (2 yesterday) whilst driving with the ball - something Nunez has shown an inability to do. McLean also players better long balls than Nunez.

More than decent championship players usually get snapped up by EPL clubs…. And yet here he is. Which is a nice thing of course.

I know you love Mclean, or rather the controversy of doing so, but ‘anyone’ who watches football can see Nunez is a more talented player.

Edited March 17 by Creedence Clearwater Couto

[nutty nigel 7,536]

7 hours ago, hogesar said:

I'd agree he's never looked good enough in the Premier League for us, and that's unlikely to have suddenly changed, but would always caveat it with the fact that 90% of the squad have looked ill-equipped when playing in the Prem and it's often the midfield that look the worst when a whole team is struggling at a higher level. 

 

Hoggy you’re too kind. He’s never only said Kenny isn’t good enough to play in the PL. One on his recent ‘pearls of wisdom’ was he was glad Kenny didn’t play against Bristol Rovers, not glad he was rested but glad because he isn’t good enough. Your initial reaction to take his views with a pinch of salt was spot on.

FPAs and FPEAs struggle with Kenny. 🙃

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

I've always rated McClean highly. Lots of good points already made on this post; yes he has a mistake in him most games, likewise Nunez & Sara. Kenny is a class apart at Championship level & an excellent back-up utility player in the Premier League should that occur next season. As it stands, he's getting my POTS vote....

[hogesar 9,675]

54 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

More than decent championship players usually get snapped up by EPL clubs…. And yet here he is. Which is a nice thing of course.

I know you love Mclean, or rather the controversy of doing so, but ‘anyone’ who watches football can see Nunez is a more talented player.

Funny how Farke came in for McLean and not Nunez then. 

Almost as if my view isn't controversial at all, mine is in line with those who actually know football, yours is with yourself.

as for my apparent controversial view, it appears 90% of the fanbase has come around to my way of thinking.

It's OK to be wrong mate, your points prediction in October has to be up there with the worst takes ever submitted on this forum but everyone's been kind enough to keep quiet on it..