Best prime minister in your lifetime?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,740]

Thought I would get a spicy debate going. Given pretty much everyone has and does hate our current crop of unelected PM's..

 

What prime ministers has this country had during your life did you like?

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

18 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Thought I would get a spicy debate going. Given pretty much everyone has and does hate our current crop of unelected PM's..

 

What prime ministers has this country had during your life did you like?

None of the above.

[Naturalcynic 631]

Thatcher who, despite everything, had the backbone and resolve to bear the brickbats that were thrown at her and to drive things through.  Despite the poor state of our military she had the fight and leadership abilities to face down Argentina following their invasion of the Falkland Islands, and when confronted by the likes of Scargill she knew all too well what had happened in the 1970s and was never going to let him win.  Coming a close second was Blair who managed to govern successfully from the centre ground and persuaded floating voters like me to vote Labour, although rather a shame he allowed himself to be carried along in GW’s Iraq war.

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

The current bunch make all the previous ones look brilliant 

[dylanisabaddog 4,931]

14 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

Thatcher who, despite everything, had the backbone and resolve to bear the brickbats that were thrown at her and to drive things through.  Despite the poor state of our military she had the fight and leadership abilities to face down Argentina following their invasion of the Falkland Islands, and when confronted by the likes of Scargill she knew all too well what had happened in the 1970s and was never going to let him win.  Coming a close second was Blair who managed to govern successfully from the centre ground and persuaded floating voters like me to vote Labour, although rather a shame he allowed himself to be carried along in GW’s Iraq war.

He had very little choice about the Iraq war having previously persuaded the Americans to get involved in Bosnia. 

What is extraordinary is that he still won a 60 seat majority after the Iraq war and the allegations about the dossier. 

In the recent Blair Brown documentary (which is well worth a watch), George Osborne admitted that he and Cameron had decided early on never to go up against Blair in an election. 

Blair was by far and away our best leader. Thatcher divided the country, Blair brought it together again. 

[Canary73 160]

Tony Blair by a country mile. No one comes close.

[ricardo 7,395]

Churchill 

[Mello Yello 2,296]

Margaret Thatcher.....

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

50 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Churchill 

Churchill was good war leader (which is how is remembered) but outside that poor and made many mistakes.

He was even voted out before WW2 ended!

 

Edited March 13 by Yellow Fever

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

As per the above comment I think you have to ask who was the most 'complete' PM in terms of dealing with national and foreign policy, in good times and bad, keeping the country together.

Thatcher was certainly consequential but was eventual dethroned by her own party. Blair I think edges it, after all he went on his own terms and is still influential and respected today.

Honorable mention to Brown (gets far more respect overseas saving the world vs 2008 crash) and Major (with Blair) - Good Friday deal.

Further back Wilson was always clever, Heath so so etc.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Blair, but he really blotted his copybook on foreign policy, especially with the sexed-up dossier on Iraq. His interventions worked in Kosovo and Sierra Leone, but he made the mistake of thinking it would work everywhere and he ended up with a heck of a Messiah complex.

George Michael really saw him coming in the video for Shoot The Dog. Really saw him coming.

Major deserves to be a bit more of a footnote than just after the Lord's Mayor Show in Thatcher, but he ended up in a similar position to Cameron in that the Tories became seriously unruly at that point and the cracks were well and truly visible in their big house.

EDIT: Felt a bit sorry for Cameron in patches, he deserves some credit for facing down a pretty rebellious rump of Tory MPs and got cross-party support for establishing gay marriage and whilst his legacy will always be heavily defined by the Brexit referendum, as someone who's an avowed defender of Swiss direct democracy, I do respect his willingness to do that, even though it wasn't the outcome he (or indeed I) voted for.

Edited March 13 by TheGunnShow

[ricardo 7,395]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

As per the above comment I think you have to ask who was the most 'complete' PM in terms of dealing with national and foreign policy, in good times and bad, keeping the country together.

Thatcher was certainly consequential but was eventual dethroned by her own party. Blair I think edges it, after all he went on his own terms and is still influential and respected today.

Honorable mention to Brown (gets far more respect overseas saving the world vs 2008 crash) and Major (with Blair) - Good Friday deal.

Further back Wilson was always clever, Heath so so etc.

What about Macmillan? He was of the old patrician class but but very much a leftist Conservative for his time. 

He was very prominent in the anti appeasement section of the Tories in the 30's.

Also served in the trenches as a captain in WW1. Where he was wounded.

A bit more of a rounded experience than many of todays political class.

Edited March 13 by ricardo

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

What about Macmillan? He was of the old patrician class but but very much a leftist Conservative for his time. 

He was very prominent in the anti appeasement section of the Tories in the 30's.

I suppose he counts as 'in my lifetime' but really before my 'active interest' in politics

Rebuilt US relationship, post Suez but undone by Profumo etc. UK trying to work-out it wasn't a super power and relinquishing the 'Empire'. 

With hindsight was OK.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,327]

Baldrick 

Edited March 13 by GodlyOtsemobor

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

Jim Hacker

[littleyellowbirdie 2,553]

10 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Blair, but he really blotted his copybook on foreign policy, especially with the sexed-up dossier on Iraq. His interventions worked in Kosovo and Sierra Leone, but he made the mistake of thinking it would work everywhere and he ended up with a heck of a Messiah complex.

George Michael really saw him coming in the video for Shoot The Dog. Really saw him coming.

Major deserves to be a bit more of a footnote than just after the Lord's Mayor Show in Thatcher, but he ended up in a similar position to Cameron in that the Tories became seriously unruly at that point and the cracks were well and truly visible in their big house.

EDIT: Felt a bit sorry for Cameron in patches, he deserves some credit for facing down a pretty rebellious rump of Tory MPs and got cross-party support for establishing gay marriage and whilst his legacy will always be heavily defined by the Brexit referendum, as someone who's an avowed defender of Swiss direct democracy, I do respect his willingness to do that, even though it wasn't the outcome he (or indeed I) voted for.

Major is my favourite and I think he did extremely well to keep the show on the road for pretty much a whole term with some serious rebels exploiting the slim majority.

Also, social mobility has not been as high before or since the Major government.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

31 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Major is my favourite and I think he did extremely well to keep the show on the road for pretty much a whole term with some serious rebels exploiting the slim majority.

Also, social mobility has not been as high before or since the Major government.

I do think Major's one of those where he's suffered from a fair bit of sleaze personally (Edwina Currie) as well as quite a few in the party at the time (David Mellor inter alia) and then he had a real problem in coming after a major personality in Thatcher, so he was always going to look a bit monochrome. 

He might also have suffered a bit due to the performance of Nigel Lawson and Black Wednesday, but then again - he kept the pound and laid most of the groundwork for resolving the troubles in Northern Ireland.

Would actually - as indeed Andrew Marr did - point out that Maastricht was probably one of his best moments. Kept out of monetary union and avoided the social chapter when in a weak position at home.

EDIT: The social mobility mentioning reminds me of one thing I disliked about Blair, but that's personal - namely the scrapping of the Assisted Places Scheme, but I don't mind admitting that I was a beneficiary of this.

Edited March 13 by TheGunnShow

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

Asking who is the best Prime Minister during your life time is like asking what is the best strain of Syphiis have you experienced. They're all as bad as each other.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 13 by Iwans Big Toe

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

1 hour ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

Asking who is the best Prime Minister during your life time is like asking what is the best strain of Syphiis have you experienced. They're all as bad as each other.

 

 

 

 

Yours is the best answer.

 

However, I'm going for Churchill, saved the world from fascism. Followed closely by Thatcher, saved Europe from communism.

[Barbe bleu 827]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Would actually - as indeed Andrew Marr did - point out that Maastricht was probably one of his best moments. Kept out of monetary union and avoided the social chapter when in a weak position at home.

Sounds like you are loving Marr's book.  I dont recall if i got through it all but I do remember I couldn't read it without hearing Marr's voice in my head-  his long form writing style so closely resembles how he would present on telly

I prefer Dominic Sandbrook to be honest. His books are vast but engaging and even handed.  If you haven't read his works I can recommend

 

[Herman 9,780]

Thatcher's policies are now showing their full fruit and they are a disaster domestically.

Blair did a lot of good things but his wars have destroyed out international reputation.

Cameron was an idiot whose domestic policy of an unecesaary austerity lead to the disaster of brexit.

Johnson was a disgrace.

Truss was a think tank shill that trashed the economy.

Sunak is the YTS captain of the Titanic.

Major and May tried their best to keep the ship afloat but were weak and brought down by the brexit headbangers.

Leaving Brown who did save Britain from economic meltdown. He was a good chancellor but just wasn't a good leader.

[Naturalcynic 631]

51 minutes ago, Herman said:

Thatcher's policies are now showing their full fruit and they are a disaster domestically.

Blair did a lot of good things but his wars have destroyed out international reputation.

Cameron was an idiot whose domestic policy of an unecesaary austerity lead to the disaster of brexit.

Johnson was a disgrace.

Truss was a think tank shill that trashed the economy.

Sunak is the YTS captain of the Titanic.

Major and May tried their best to keep the ship afloat but were weak and brought down by the brexit headbangers.

Leaving Brown who did save Britain from economic meltdown. He was a good chancellor but just wasn't a good leader.

Anything good to say about anyone?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,553]

49 minutes ago, Herman said:

Thatcher's policies are now showing their full fruit and they are a disaster domestically.

Blair did a lot of good things but his wars have destroyed out international reputation.

Cameron was an idiot whose domestic policy of an unecesaary austerity lead to the disaster of brexit.

Johnson was a disgrace.

Truss was a think tank shill that trashed the economy.

Sunak is the YTS captain of the Titanic.

Major and May tried their best to keep the ship afloat but were weak and brought down by the brexit headbangers.

Leaving Brown who did save Britain from economic meltdown. He was a good chancellor but just wasn't a good leader.

Blair pursued privatisation with gusto as well, not to mention bank deregulation that contributed to 2008 being very expensive for the tax payer. The wholesale deregulation of gambling by Blair was also massively harmful and has destroyed many lives.

[Naturalcynic 631]

15 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Blair pursued privatisation with gusto as well, not to mention bank deregulation that contributed to 2008 being very expensive for the tax payer. The wholesale deregulation of gambling by Blair was also massively harmful and has destroyed many lives.

Also, looking at the long-term stability of the UK, devolution hasn’t necessarily been the best move.

[TheRock 171]

Liz Truss 🎣

[Herman 9,780]

8 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

Anything good to say about anyone?

Yes, history will be reasonably kind to Brown and Major and, in retirement, they come across as thoroughly decent chaps. And surprisingly, May has good comedic timing. 

[Barbe bleu 827]

11 hours ago, Herman said:

Thatcher's policies are now showing their full fruit and they are a disaster domestically.

Blair did a lot of good things but his wars have destroyed out international reputation.

Cameron was an idiot whose domestic policy of an unecesaary austerity lead to the disaster of brexit.

Johnson was a disgrace.

Truss was a think tank shill that trashed the economy.

Sunak is the YTS captain of the Titanic.

Major and May tried their best to keep the ship afloat but were weak and brought down by the brexit headbangers.

Leaving Brown who did save Britain from economic meltdown. He was a good chancellor but just wasn't a good leader.

You're not old enough for heath I doubt so given that you seem to think that every prime minister since 1979 has been awful then (a) it is a wonder how we still function as a society and (b) presumably Callaghan or Wilson is your lifetime favourite?

[Bobzilla 145]

11 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Blair pursued privatisation with gusto as well, not to mention bank deregulation that contributed to 2008 being very expensive for the tax payer. The wholesale deregulation of gambling by Blair was also massively harmful and has destroyed many lives.

That was Brown more than Blair.  It was Brown, rather hubristically, announced that he had eliminated boom and bust.  Only for the biggest boom and bust in the best part of 80 years.  Or at least the biggest bust.  I’m not sure whether the preceding boom was anything for most people to write home about.

I was 17 in 1997 and a Thatcherite Tory.  I thought that Blair was the worst thing to ever happen to this country.  I’m a little older and a little wiser than I was, and now appreciate that whilst Thatcher’s policies made economic sense at that point in time, it destroyed the social fabric of much of the UK.  Yes, the pits needed closing because they cost more to keep open than it would do to buy the coal in from external markets AND pay the unemployment bill.  BUT she replaced that structure with nothing of any consequence.  That’s where she failed, the rebuilding, not the closing. Because of that, I put her at worse than Blair in the pecking order, from a domestic perspective.  

Whilst Blair might have been ‘troublesome’ internationally, and his target driven politics, where it doesn’t matter whether we’re making a difference so long as the chosen statistics show that we are, were demonstrated to be more successful than anyone actually felt, he did make a difference on schools and hospitals.  Which is somewhere that we are really feeling it now.  Every PM since has been a numpty - we keep on asking how it could get any worse, and the Tory party have been asking us to hold their beer for almost as long as Ipswich have failed to beat us.  

So, rather begrudgingly, the answer to ‘best PM in my lifetime’ is Blair, simply because he hasn’t totally destroyed the country out of blind hubris or idealogical zealotry.

 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 hour ago, Bobzilla said:

That was Brown more than Blair.  It was Brown, rather hubristically, announced that he had eliminated boom and bust.  Only for the biggest boom and bust in the best part of 80 years.  Or at least the biggest bust.  I’m not sure whether the preceding boom was anything for most people to write home about.

I was 17 in 1997 and a Thatcherite Tory.  I thought that Blair was the worst thing to ever happen to this country.  I’m a little older and a little wiser than I was, and now appreciate that whilst Thatcher’s policies made economic sense at that point in time, it destroyed the social fabric of much of the UK.  Yes, the pits needed closing because they cost more to keep open than it would do to buy the coal in from external markets AND pay the unemployment bill.  BUT she replaced that structure with nothing of any consequence.  That’s where she failed, the rebuilding, not the closing. Because of that, I put her at worse than Blair in the pecking order, from a domestic perspective.  

Whilst Blair might have been ‘troublesome’ internationally, and his target driven politics, where it doesn’t matter whether we’re making a difference so long as the chosen statistics show that we are, were demonstrated to be more successful than anyone actually felt, he did make a difference on schools and hospitals.  Which is somewhere that we are really feeling it now.  Every PM since has been a numpty - we keep on asking how it could get any worse, and the Tory party have been asking us to hold their beer for almost as long as Ipswich have failed to beat us.  

So, rather begrudgingly, the answer to ‘best PM in my lifetime’ is Blair, simply because he hasn’t totally destroyed the country out of blind hubris or idealogical zealotry.

 

There's possibly an argument - coming from someone who's basically the same age - that Blair was Thatcher's greatest achievement.

[sonyc 5,526]

2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

You're not old enough for heath I doubt so given that you seem to think that every prime minister since 1979 has been awful then (a) it is a wonder how we still function as a society and (b) presumably Callaghan or Wilson is your lifetime favourite?

I can only comment really from Thatcher onwards because I was simply too young at the time to know what McMillan or Wilson were like for example. I've seen TV programmes that have painted Wilson as a canny operator and he kept us out of Vietnam. I hated Thatcher but grudgingly now realise she had a sense of values or a certain integrity that she stuck to...and that's because I compare the recent administrations to her time. She was also the first woman PM. That's a plus. Yet, she was a cold fish and I'm not sure all of her wires were connected. As Bobzilla has stated, she certainly did not sow hope where there was despair (the Francis of Assisi speech). The exact opposite maybe...Her housing policy opened up opportunity for many to get a foot on the housing ladder. That must be applauded even though it was a form of political gerrymandering. Yet, it ultimately failed because of no follow on investment. The selling off of national resources was a way of not investing but putting the profit motive first.

I suppose it has to be Blair because of his social programmes (Surestart was a positive thing, reinforced by Brown, especially in disadvantaged areas). If you look at many economic indices Blair's era was broadly successful. 

Yet, he was a successor to Thatcher and I never voted for him either, and like many, was appalled by his foreign policies later on. His opening up of immigration channels I believe was a mis-step post Serbia / Bosnia and fall of the Berlin wall. That's for a different topic but it represents a negative.

In recent years Major has gone up in my estimation because of his views on Johnson and on Brexit. Brown continues to talk much sense on the few occasions one hears from him. But he wasn't without fault. His expansion of the benefits system by the time he'd left as Chancellor was a chaotic mess. Far too many rules and complexity - trying to fill every hole in the safety net.

I don't really know. 'Favourite' seems an odd term for an MP. It often ends with failure. Very few have really set about building a national infrastructure or even a  'narrative' (a word overused today) that genuinely brought a whole country together. I don't see one emerging in the future either. I think we're doomed quite honestly. I think that because we need a solid 10 year plan, at the least. I will be voting for whoever can oust my Tory MP but if it's Starmer to emerge as the next PM I remain quite sceptical. A good few years of solid and serious administration might persuade me in years to come that things might be different.

 

Edited March 14 by sonyc