Playing v 10 men

[Yobocop 1,235]

4 hours ago, Keith Scott said:

1. The players have no backbone. Time and time again they show they can't cope in adversity. No fight or desire.

2. Woeful back four. Not a decent defender amongst them. Gibson and Hanley may be the worst centre back pairing in the league.

3. Tactically clueless manager. Has no idea how to adjust to situations. Zero in game management skills.

Last night proved why top 6 is a pipe dream.

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

Sorry wasn’t going to have a nibble but I will 

you really are the biggest p***k on this forum, and that’s with some strong contenders by the way 

this has to be a parody account that gets wheeled out when the results don’t go our way, quite sad really. 

congratulations on being wrong on every single opinion above, the players have shown fight in recent weeks to counteract b**ends like you who boo them at home games 

as for Wagner? Assume you’ve already forgotten about the Coventry and Watford games then 

crawl back under your rock until we lose again, I’m sure you will come up with some more pearls of wisdom 

[Capt. Pants 4,501]

We needed to defend for our lives for those 15 mins before halftime and then regroup. It was a pathetic capitulation, partly a mental thing and partly nobody really clear on what the hell they were doing.

Perhaps I'm being unfair but I just can't see how this group of players gets through 2 legs of a play-off semi final even if we get there. Last night was very telling.

 

[Robert N. LiM 5,087]

Just now, Capt. Pants said:

Perhaps I'm being unfair but I just can't see how this group of players gets through 2 legs of a play-off semi final even if we get there. Last night was very telling.

Certainly if we don't make the play-offs, the thought that we might have avoided a humiliating collapse at Portman road in the second leg of a play-off semi final will be a significant consolation.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,555]

5 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

 

With one of the midfielders off, that ability to switch those positions kind of goes, and I don't think we had a workable alternative,  beyond going 4 4 1 and just trying to hang on for 60 mins. But we didn't feel we could push the full backs on any more so we posed absolutely no threat. 

 

Agree Robert. We immediately went into two very rigid lines of 4 with Barnes as the 9. It was disastrous . Invited them on and stopped  doing everything that had us 1 up. 
 

The two lines of 4 had a country mile in between them allowing Boro to pass through the lines easily. And why put Sargent into the 4 on the left ! 
 

Irrespective of the dire decision of Madley , we went to pieces . 

[shefcanary 2,622]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Yeah, last night was definitely McLeans fault.

Jesus 😅😅😅

He was the captain last night. Where was his leadership of his teammates? Three incredibly soft goals followed and how much did he take on the responsibility of keeping the ball in possession? He didn't at all. He just went to that place in his head which fails to recognise his responsibility to the team and did his running around aimlessly piece. He wasn't totally to blame for everything but as captain he has to take a fair share of blame for the rest of that first half!

Edited March 7 by shefcanary

[Keith Scott 277]

1 hour ago, Yobocop said:

Sorry wasn’t going to have a nibble but I will 

you really are the biggest p***k on this forum, and that’s with some strong contenders by the way 

this has to be a parody account that gets wheeled out when the results don’t go our way, quite sad really. 

congratulations on being wrong on every single opinion above, the players have shown fight in recent weeks to counteract b**ends like you who boo them at home games 

as for Wagner? Assume you’ve already forgotten about the Coventry and Watford games then 

crawl back under your rock until we lose again, I’m sure you will come up with some more pearls of wisdom 

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

[Yobocop 1,235]

1 hour ago, Keith Scott said:

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

Sums it up really doesn’t it? 

[hogesar 10,051]

5 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Yeah, all that's fair enough. Obviously there's no perfect solution - they all are going to come with drawbacks. Maybe you're right that it's more down to the players than the coach. At the very least I hope these conversations are being had at Colney today. Surely one of the roles of the SD is to hold the coach accountable for his decisions. If Wagner can justify them, and you make a decent case on his behalf here, that's fair enough.

 

Ultimately it didn't work so understandable that people are discussing different options. I don't really disagree with your suggestion but ultimately if we aren't going to defend crosses into the box it really doesn't matter what we do!

[Fen Canary 1,091]

6 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Sure, but it's not like we manfully held out for an hour and lost to two late goals when we were knackered. We threw away the lead in 13 minutes, against a team visibly bereft of confidence at that point. Those last fifteen minutes of the first half were pathetic.

 

You mean 1-0, but yes, largely agree. I still think that the 4-4-1 with Gibbs in Sainz's position, Sarge on his own up front and Barnes taken off would have given us the best possible mobility to counter being a man down. Putting Sargent on the left seemed madness to me. But against that, I can see how you'd hope the players on the pitch should be able to get to half time and then you sort it from there. As I said above, I think both Wagner and the senior players have some serious questions to answer.

I can see the logic of leaving Barnes up there on his own, as he’s a good option at holding the ball up and bringing the midfielders into play when you do get the odd chance at going forward and relieving some pressure. Ultimately what did us was conceding the two quick goals after the sending off. That little 10 minute burst where we lost our heads left us too much to do in the second half to try and salvage anything 

[Robert N. LiM 5,087]

Just now, hogesar said:

ultimately if we aren't going to defend crosses into the box it really doesn't matter what we do!

 

1 minute ago, Fen Canary said:

Ultimately what did us was conceding the two quick goals after the sending off. That little 10 minute burst where we lost our heads left us too much to do in the second half to try and salvage anything 

Yeah as the dust settles I think I'm coming round to the idea that the blame lies more with the players than DW.

Also struck by this tweet saying it's 15 games since we've so much as scored in a game when down to ten men, going back to 2019. Which suggests (a) it's very tough to play with ten and (b) we are particularly rubbish at it.

[Fen Canary 1,091]

1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said:

 

Yeah as the dust settles I think I'm coming round to the idea that the blame lies more with the players than DW.

Also struck by this tweet saying it's 15 games since we've so much as scored in a game when down to ten men, going back to 2019. Which suggests (a) it's very tough to play with ten and (b) we are particularly rubbish at it.

How does that stat compare with other teams though. I’d argue it’s probably not that uncommon, especially as red cards often tend to happen later in the game. 

[mannings bandy legs 408]

9 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

That was probably one of the worst displays I've seen from 10 men, a blueprint for how not to do it.

I'm more disappointed at the lack of desire, nous, leadership, defending and tactical awareness than I am about the sending off itself.

Sorry if we're reopening old wounds here but I'm also convinced Wagner didn't help the situation at all.

Adversity unfortunately has shown our capability up bigtime.

The fact we have no proper,clenched fist,vocal captains, on the pitch does'nt help. Never seen such a weak-willed bunch at this club. First bit of adversity and they simply fold,looking sorry for themselves. Can you imagine this lot in a playoff semi-final v Leeds and going down a man?

[ZLF 304]

The accusation of last seasons dire run post blackburn was the loss of experienced players with kenny, Gibson & hanley our injured.

 

Those players we absent as the towel was thrown in with no on pitch leadership or coordination from the very three who were on the pitch together with barnes.  The experience should have been there but the nous was missing.  Boro were miles off the pace and so out of form yet we made them look like an attacking Leicester or Ipswich side despite dominating the first 30 & being the team that should have been on a confidence high due to the current run.

It's done and they need to show who they are all over again but even down to 10 its a missed opportunity and highlights an underlying fragility.

 

 

[hogesar 10,051]

6 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Well he is the captain. I think it is a collevtive thing and starts with the manager. Team needed leadership off the pitch - an immediate substitution to reshape the team to add more in midfield. We were 1-0 up and could have taken Barnes off and brought in some mobility into midfield. 

As it was the ten men just capitulated. No reaction, just nothing from anyone. Talk about rising to the occasion in the face of adversity, there was nothing - and it psychologically gifted Middsbro the match. 

Hanley was captain.

[yellowrider120 830]

36 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Hanley was captain.

In name only I'd suggest!

[......and Smith must score. 1,436]

1 hour ago, mannings bandy legs said:

The fact we have no proper,clenched fist,vocal captains, on the pitch does'nt help. Never seen such a weak-willed bunch at this club. First bit of adversity and they simply fold,looking sorry for themselves. Can you imagine this lot in a playoff semi-final v Leeds and going down a man?

This.

It was shocking how we got the jitters and collapsed the instant Sainz left the pitch. There were plenty of ‘ mentally weak ‘ comments about Ipswich flying around on here during their recent rocky patch. I suggest that last night we made them look rock solid.

Edited March 7 by ......and Smith must score.

[lake district canary 4,641]

57 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Hanley was captain.

Doesn't matter who was captain, collectively there was no response - manager, captain, players. Very poor. 

[ZLF 304]

Irrespective of who was captain (Grant) we should have had at least 4 leaders on the pitch.  Sadly we looked as leaderless as last seasons run in.

we are still in the running, but sat becomes a must win to stay in touch

[hogesar 10,051]

17 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Doesn't matter who was captain, collectively there was no response - manager, captain, players. Very poor. 

Jesus christ, YOU'RE THE ONE who used the fact you thought Mclean was captain in response to my post, it's like you make things up as you go along to suit!

  

7 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Well he is the captain. I think it is a collevtive thing and starts with the manager. Team needed leadership off the pitch - an immediate substitution to reshape the team to add more in midfield. We were 1-0 up and could have taken Barnes off and brought in some mobility into midfield. 

As it was the ten men just capitulated. No reaction, just nothing from anyone. Talk about rising to the occasion in the face of adversity, there was nothing - and it psychologically gifted Middsbro the match. 

 

[percy varco 217]

Worthy always gave the excuse that it is harder to break down 10 men when we could not do it in the past. 
 

 

[ged in the onion bag 915]

Just some observations... 

It ws obvious how deep we dropped immediately.  They were on the ropes it seemed a second was likely....  We didn't just drop deep, we went really narrow too, thats not how to defend for 60 odd minutes.    You still need to stop crosses, something we didn't even try to do, they had too much time and room - no pressure on the ball at all.    If ever there was a team asking to be beaten, that was us last night.... 

We were never going to survive for 60 minutes defending that deep and narrow, so why sit back like that.   Have a go!   

Sainz plays a position where that player is usually sacrificed following a red, so it didn't really change the dynamic that much.  It shouldn't have rather.

We have an elderly squad.... I mean 'experienced'!    Not much of that on show from Hanley, Gibson, McLean and Barnes etc...IMO.

Sargent was moved to a position which made him pretty redundant (and so he was).... should have stayed up top and moved Barnes or changed Barnes for Welch or Gibbs.  .... carried on pressing high up and asked the forward pressers to run themselves into the ground until 65-70 mins then change them but keep making it hard for Middlesboro to play.    We made it so easy.

Nunez's game doesn't suit our situation in that game... much better to put Gibbs in that central role second half.   Nunez needs forward movement, time on the ball etc... he was never going to have options and he's not a strong battling type player, shouldn't have come on, not a criticism of him though .

Wagner, didn't understand what on earth was going down on that pitch.  Rabbit in the headlights.    He was fully responsible for the manner of that defeat.    Clearly couldn't see what was happening or had no clue how to address it...    No direction or adequate instruction, clueless tactically.   Disappointing.   Promotion chase, really!  

[lake district canary 4,641]

46 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Jesus christ, YOU'RE THE ONE who used the fact you thought Mclean was captain in response to my post, it's like you make things up as you go along to suit!

You totally miss the overall point I was making about collective responsibility and manager/captain/players - and in that respect it doesn't matter who was captain. 

 

[mastoola 192]

Maybe the manger should of shouted out something like "game C" where everyone knows what they should be doing?

[Corbs1 96]

We played not dissimilar at Sunderland, early lead, then well beaten, albeit not such a swift collapse. I can’t put my finger on why we appear to lose our way (one would think Barnes, Mclean , Hanley etc would have the experience to hold on), especially after ips away- but we do appear brittle at times when we are up against it. 

[JUBWICKS75 48]

21 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

It was totally a mental thing,  and something I text my mate at the time saying we'd lose as we'd have to drop deep and we simply can't do it.

We have some technically good players in this squad, but my word it's the weakest mentally we've ever had, and it stems from having no leaders on the pitch, Hanley as captain is a joke.

It was a woeful half, it appeared that Norwich felt so aggreaved at the sending off decision that neither manager or captain to raise spirits. With the remaining squad and Boro's form there was at least a point available 

[Capt. Pants 4,501]

9 hours ago, mastoola said:

Maybe the manger should of shouted out something like "game C" where everyone knows what they should be doing?

I think he must have shouted 'capitulate' in a German accent.

[Tootingyellow 1]

I've been watching Norwich for over 30 years and my perception (maybe incorrectly) is that we've always really struggled to break down 10 men when it's in our favour (often really hard to spot the one-man advantage) and look so easy to score against when we have 10. Completely fail to control or manage the game, concede about 80% possession and are devoid of intent. You'd think we have 8 players on the pitch, not 10.