Wagner has gone nuclear

[ROBFLECK 132]

2 minutes ago, Ian said:

But the reality of the situation is that both Hernandez and Sarge were blowing and needed to be substituted (according to Wagner after the game any way). This was illustrated pretty clearly by our increased control of the match with the substitutions that were made.

This is my main problem with the booing - it's usually based on half a story, or a perceived notion of what the story is. I get that this is really a cumulative cause/effect based on the season, but I really don't think people consider the injuries Wagner has had to deal with, or the lack of depth in our squad.

The football we played early doors last night was very attractive and entertaining IMO. If this was peoples' main concern with Wagner, I don't think it's reasonable to boo considering that we are making progress, and have now hit the top six.

My opinion too , people in the crowd booing will not have completely known what was behind the decision to substitute and I don't think the lads that came on did a bad job. I didn't agree with the booing , but that's my point of view , yet I'm struggling to understand the boo-boys...I just think they didn't understand why Sarge and Onel were taken off ,(yet they couldn't have known anyway) ....imho that doesn't make it right to boo your own team! 

[Newtopia 517]

Booing is the opposite of supporting.  Therefore if you boo you aren’t a supporter.  Could be a fan, but definitely not supportive.  Tbh Webber and Wagner said similar rungs and they weren’t wrong,

[Google Bot 3,278]

2 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Maybe if you demanded she hurry up you wouldn't have been sat there like a melon for an hour?

Like an 8 year old yelling "I Want chips now!" at his mum who's mid-family roast? 

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

3 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Maybe if you demanded she hurry up you wouldn't have been sat their like a melon for an hour?

I think the point is that he’s been sat there without his melon for an hour….

The point is, everyone is entitled to ‘support’ however they wish - at home/work listening in or watching, or going to the game.  And they can pretty much do what they want.

But, and here’s the rub, it is a pretty strange idea that you would choose to go, and show your ‘support’ by criticising/chanting/booing against the players, pretty much undermining the idea of ‘supporting’ them.

[Capt. Pants 4,246]

The crowd were booing Wagner, not the team or the oncoming subs.

Wagner is right to complain about booing the team but the boos and 'you don't know what doing' was clearly aimed at him.

[Captain Holt 522]

So many precious little darlings on this thread. Of course I'm a supporter if I boo a sub, boo the manager, boo Delia or boo the programme man. In fact, I'm a fan that is passionate enough to care enough to do so. Grow up - saying you're not allowed to boo....

You self-righteous twaats.

[Nexus_Canary 1,019]

1 minute ago, Google Bot said:

Like an 8 year old yelling "I Want chips now!" at his mum who's mid-family roast?

 

No like an adult saying, hi I'm in a rush is there any chance you could talk to the kitchen and get my food out a bit faster, if not then I am going to have to leave. Thanks for understanding.

Being assertive does not mean being rude.

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,019]

Just now, Captain Holt said:

So many precious little darlings on this thread. Of course I'm a supporter if I boo a sub, boo the manager, boo Delia or boo the programme man. In fact, I'm a fan that is passionate enough to care enough to do so. Grow up - saying you're not allowed to boo....

You self-righteous twaats.

Agreed one hundred percent 

[Captain Holt 522]

Maybe to make it abundantly clear to Dodgy Dave at the weekend, those booing should sing 'we want Wagner out' instead. Would never, ever boo an individual player who plays for this club, and neither would 90% of those who booed last night. Booing a performance or manager is fair game. 

[S_81 802]

11 minutes ago, ROBFLECK said:

My opinion too , people in the crowd booing will not have completely known what was behind the decision to substitute and I don't think the lads that came on did a bad job. I didn't agree with the booing , but that's my point of view , yet I'm struggling to understand the boo-boys...I just think they didn't understand why Sarge and Onel were taken off ,(yet they couldn't have known anyway) ....imho that doesn't make it right to boo your own team! 

Yes. And had we not used subs to try and hold a lead 20mins out at QPR on Sat, unsuccessfully - then there would have been no booing last night. It’s cumulative re Wagner’s subs. And once again - I’m not saying it’s right to boo. 

[Nexus_Canary 1,019]

3 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I think the point is that he’s been sat there without his melon for an hour….

The point is, everyone is entitled to ‘support’ however they wish - at home/work listening in or watching, or going to the game.  And they can pretty much do what they want.

But, and here’s the rub, it is a pretty strange idea that you would choose to go, and show your ‘support’ by criticising/chanting/booing against the players, pretty much undermining the idea of ‘supporting’ them.

I go to the game to be entertained and watch live football. I would argue that I personally am not there to show my support.

If something happens I will vocalise my frustration.

I remember the Smith era actually wanting us to lose so we might actually fire him. You could say that's not supporting my team but I saw a problem in my teams development and chances and knew it needed to be removed. I didn't want to watch my team win in the short term to lose in the long term.

My support has been shown over the thousands of pounds I've shoveled into the club over the last 30 years.

As pointed out, the levels of self righteous bull sh1t being peddled in this thread is embarrassing.

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

I think a section of our so called supporters think they are still at the Christmas pantomime.

Boo, hiss.

It really is childish.

[Nexus_Canary 1,019]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I think a section of our so called supporters think they are still at the Christmas pantomime.

Boo, hiss.

It really is childish.

Oh no it isn't.......

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

Oh Yes it is...

[Google Bot 3,278]

3 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

No like an adult saying, hi I'm in a rush is there any chance you could talk to the kitchen and get my food out a bit faster,

That's not a demand, that's being reasonable and showing a level of respect as per the point I was making.

This scenario has gone from booing the waitress, to demanding action, and finally we're at a reasonable position of empathy now.  Why that logic can't be applied to our head coach who's doing his best with the resources and fitness available I don't know,.

He's bringing food to the table and bettering rival outlets and just because you've paid means you'll execute your right to boo.  **** me, well done you!

[hogesar 9,676]

The problem is, whilst I respect Wagner actually calling them out, it's like arguing with stupid. You can't win.

The fans booing didn't have any of the facts to make a good judgement in the moment but still boo'd. I can guarantee there's a direct correlation between intelligence and those who boo'd. 

Had we made the subs and lost then you'd have understood the booing at THE END OF THE GAME - they'd have actually had something to base it on.

Edited February 14 by hogesar

[Nexus_Canary 1,019]

4 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

That's not a demand, that's being reasonable and showing a level of respect as per the point I was making.

This scenario has gone from booing the waitress, to demanding action, and finally we're at a reasonable position of empathy now.  Why that logic can't be applied to our head coach who's doing his best with the resources and fitness available I don't know,.

He's bringing food to the table and bettering rival outlets and just because you've paid means you'll execute your right to boo.  **** me, well done you!

So your saying I should write a strongly worded email that will be ignored?

 

However booing has got a reaction a massive one.

Good I shall continue 

[Nexus_Canary 1,019]

11 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Oh Yes it is...

Oooooooooo no it isn't ....

[The Bristol Nest 516]

The away fans love it when we boo our own team. It saves them the bother.

[Mello Yello 2,296]

I certainly didn't boo when Asprilla scored that worldie for Watford....I actually shouted 'Magnificent!'....because it bloody well was!.....

I also had a wide smile at half-time when the kids take a penalty against Cap'n Canary in goal. Unfortunately the last little chap missed and was tearfully inconsolable. 😞  But they then let him take another and he scored....Now that was nice.....Mmh yeah...

Anyway I witnessed the booing coming mainly from the lower Barclay and including from some other areas within Carra and it didn't sound like a minority?...Even the large plethora of empty plastic pews were groaning....We won, grabbed 3 points, so now then it's the Taffy Boyz who come on Saturday and hopefully 3 more points for us, booing or not....It's football....booing is part of it....Good, bad or indifferent....

[Haus 259]

7 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

I certainly didn't boo when Asprilla scored that worldie for Watford....I actually shouted 'Magnificent!'....because it bloody well was!.....

I also had a wide smile at half-time when the kids take a penalty against Cap'n Canary in goal. Unfortunately the last little chap missed and was tearfully inconsolable. 😞  But they then let him take another and he scored....Now that was nice.....Mmh yeah...

Anyway I witnessed the booing coming mainly from the lower Barclay and including from some other areas within Carra and it didn't sound like a minority?...Even the large plethora of empty plastic pews were groaning....We won, grabbed 3 points, so now then it's the Taffy Boyz who come on Saturday and hopefully 3 more points for us, booing or not....It's football....booing is part of it....Good, bad or indifferent....

Cheering the opposition.......

[Capt. Pants 4,246]

53 minutes ago, Badger said:

The point is that they didn't like Smith, Farke (except for when we won), Neil, Adams, Houghton either! The last manager who had sustained popularity was Lambert.

One hypothesis might be that a number of the more negative "anti-fans" left during this period - one did spectacularly on the pitch itself during the Colchester game + a fans group tried to deprive the club of transfer fans, so presumably some of them left. Success meant that some of these have crept back and said success won't come again until the "anti-fans" leave again.

I can't see how driving every manager out is a solution.

No it isn't a solution but then you have to question 'why' the fans don't like Wagner, because that's the real issue. It's quite remarkable that both ends of the stadium were booing him whilst in a winning position. Can't remember the last time I heard that!

A war between fans and manager isn't going to help, nor one between so called supporters.

It is what it is unfortunately until something or somebody changes.

[Mello Yello 2,296]

3 minutes ago, Haus said:

Cheering the opposition.......

No, appreciating good football and a magnificent strike....

[sonyc 5,526]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

The problem is, whilst I respect Wagner actually calling them out, it's like arguing with stupid. You can't win.

The fans booing didn't have any of the facts to make a good judgement in the moment but still boo'd. I can guarantee there's a direct correlation between intelligence and those who boo'd. 

Had we made the subs and lost then you'd have understood the booing at THE END OF THE GAME - they'd have actually had something to base it on.

Agree with all of this. I reckon he was frustrated but he was asked the question by the interviewer - and he is a decent sort, so he answered honestly. 

I've wondered on reflection whether in fact that ultimately the situation motivated the team? Wagner clearly, 100%, I might even say, has a team of players playing for him. They've shown in the last 2 months how resilient they are. That attitude has to come from not just a few players but the coach himself. It's got to be a huge plus. 

I think the team are actually playing catch up. We lost our key striker and Idah couldn't fill his boots. We lost a few games we shouldn't have and last night (and more recently) you can see much more energy in the team. More desire. They want a play off place. As fans maybe we have to do some catching up (collectively) by trusting Wagner much more? And translating that trust into a much greater active support, at CR but even online! An online community DOES have influence on behaviour and feeling. At a critical point now we have to go in 100% ourselves - it may end in failure but there are little downsides.

Wagner continues either to be lucky or more probably knows a lot more than we do. The only (slightly ridiculous) thing that may happen to create more understanding of his decisions on subs would be to relay his thoughts via our screen ("Onel has a knock"... "Sarge is iffy"...."Barnesy is holding up the play but will be rested next game") 😅. One day I'm sure we will get to know more of in-game management but for now we ought to trust. Like we did more so with Farke.

Booing is counter-productive and is the antithesis of support. Yet, it is evident that social media has had an influence given the fact that everything nowadays is so instant. A reaction is in real time. Always when you delay an hour or two then you often feel different. About anything. And that's the challenge for fans now. To see a bigger picture. And it isn't a bad one taking shape actually. The trajectory is clearly a positive one.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Saying "you don't know what you're doing" is absolutely fine and is unambiguously aimed at the manager in that context. Booing, on the other hand, may be less situation-dependent. 

I understand the need to let off frustration, but booing is something I think's best done after the game when the final whistle has gone. Or some c**t was an egregious cheat. Mid-game - it can be too ambiguous and some supporters need to realise that whilst the reason for their frustration is clear to them, it may not necessarily be apparent to the players, especially when they're working flat-out and focusing on winning.

One thing's for sure, this team can fight.

[daniel_grieff 16]

You could argue that we've got into this absurd situation of the crown booing at inappropriate moments because the manager should have been sacked months ago. The situation stinks, in so many ways.

The home form has been pretty good, but some of the fans there last night were also at QPR. And, more to the point, Watford away.

I wouldnt boo a substitution, I don't think it helps and I dont think the players need it. But I totally share the frustration that many people at the ground have. Even with good results, like last night, it still doesnt nearly balance out just how awful we've been for most of the season. And last season, too.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

And yeah, fair play to any fellow fans who applauded that Watford equaliser as that's a Championship goal of the season candidate right there. Absolutely stonking hit.

If any of our lot had whacked that I reckon CC would have started three threads on it! (Sorry, @cambridgeshire canary)

[Indy 3,301]

22 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

I certainly didn't boo when Asprilla scored that worldie for Watford....I actually shouted 'Magnificent!'....because it bloody well was!.....

I thought Gunny should have saved it personally! I would have caught that shot no bother! 😉

[daniel_grieff 16]

5 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Booing is counter-productive and is the antithesis of support. Yet, it is evident that social media has had an influence given the fact that everything nowadays is so instant. A reaction is in real time. Always when you delay an hour or two then you often feel different. About anything. And that's the challenge for fans now. To see a bigger picture. And it isn't a bad one taking shape actually. The trajectory is clearly a positive one.

You could blame society, and social media for it, but the feeling last night (especially when the subs were made) was just oh no, theyre doing it again.

At least, thats how I felt.

[Google Bot 3,278]

25 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

So your saying I should write a strongly worded email that will be ignored?

No, just suggesting that you show empathy towards a guy who's doing his best.   Up to you if you want to take it on board or not.