daniel_grieff

The agreed price is apparently quite low on Tzolis, so rumour was that Dusseldorf wanted to buy him just to sell him on again immediately. The sticking point was having the money to pay Norwich up front, which depended on promotion. So them missing out tonight might be the best thing for us, to sell him to another club at a higher fee. I watched both legs, I actually happened to be in Germany for the first game, and Tzolis really did make things happen for Fortuna in that game. Not sure he's a player we actually need, but that would of course depend on departures. But his set pieces were a constant threat. I don't think his work rate is up to being a top division player, but he definitely makes things happen.

Damn it, you got me excited for a split second, there.

Great to read some objective and insightful opinions on this thread. I'd just add that a lot of the reporting on Norwich has been along the lines of a 'club searching for an identity', and how that contributes to the "disconnect". Echoing previous posts, we had a clear identity that the Sporting Director decided to abandon upon the 2nd promotion. As others have also said, we struggled without Buendia and Skipp. We struggled even in the Championship without Buendia. But worse, to replace them with players that Farke either didn't need, or didn't know how to use, was the begging of the end for Webber-ball. Sargent on the wing, Gilmour at DM and I remember seeing Rashica at full back in one of Farke's final games. The subsequent moves, after sacking Farke, resembled a man who was first floundering, and then feckless. He put Wagner in charge almost out of necessity; he never wanted to sack Smith, it was only us fans who had grown sick of him. But we complained so much that he needed to do something to maintain good will/ticket sales, etc. To me, it all very much had the look of a man that knew he was leaving a job anyway, so he did the very minimum he could. Knowing that it would be someone else that had to pick up the pieces. Hell, he even had to leave early and Ben 'the kid' Knapper got parachuted in, because he couldnt bring himself to pull the trigger on his old friend Dave. Why did he have this change of heart in the first place, though? My feeling is that Webber is an incredibly thin-skinned man. He speaks far too much about 'ignoring noise' and inventing pet-hate names (divorcees...) for his supposed enemies to be convincing as a guy that genuinely doesn't give a **** about other people's opinions. I see it as a front for an insecure man who did what he needed to, in order to boost his appearance from an outside perspective. Face saving, all the way. Eventually, towards the end, the wheels came off and he started to get found out. All things considered, that leaves something like just above the red line on the balance sheet, I feel.

No, that's fair. I was wrong about that, so I take back what I said, completely.

And it's telling that these older heads were bought in to apparently add steel this season, but contributed to a team that rarely recovered from conceding goals.

I can see where youre coming from, but if kid-knapper wasnt brave enough to sack him at the turn of the year, when the form was abysmal, surely he wouldnt have done it after a promotion? Would have been 'bad optics' for the club, from the outside perspective, at least.

citation needed

Is the away form for the entire season still cherry picking?

I was thinking about that. But on the other hand, maybe it just means we can't just hyper-inflated prices for them, and they'll go anyway.

Well, if leeds sell Kamara and Summerville in the summer, then we can truly compare Farke's PL Leeds to PL Norwich. Otherwise, it points the finger at a gob****e Sporting Director who thought signing a ball winning midfielder was a mountain too high. Let's see if they send him into a knife fight with a spoon, or whatever that trite analogy he used was.

I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for another man's failure, but I don't see any managerial comparison as relevant, when talking about PL record. The PL has been getting progressively further apart from the Championship since it began, and that trend has only accelerated in recent years. Managers like Lambert, Hughton and (albeit for a different club) Wagner might not be capable of setting up teams that can avoid relegation in today's PL. The spending power of even a middling PL club is frightening and even if you reach into your pockets, the recruitment needs to be spot on. I'd be extremely surprised if it wasn't last year's promoted teams that end up getting relegated this year. I'm only posting this to say that while looking at the PL stats makes it look like Farke was our "worst PL manager", I don't see what any human alive could have done differently with those 2 PL squads he had. We'll never know, but I wonder what those other names from the list would have done about Billy Gilmour, Milot Rashica, Duda, etc.

Sainz arrived with something of a reputation for being that kind of player. I think it was on the pinkun that they got an expert on Turkish football to talk about him. I do agree with you, there does need to be more trust in decisions and processes, but it's hard to buy into it when we've seen just how bad things have been this season. It wasn't that long ago that we had relegation form and one of the worst results in the club's history, it might take a bit longer to get everybody on board.

Well, I think it has something to do with the approach that Webber took, roundabout (but not exactly at) the time he decided to sack Farke: The abandoning of the 'model' that got the club promoted twice, appointment of a coach that didnt seem to fit the remit. Sticking with the coach even though the fans had turned against him ages ago and results were bad. "divorcees in the snakepit" / ain't no mountain high enough, etc. Appointing his mate as the new manager, who then presides over a run that's just as bad as anything his predecessor served up The club parachute in a replacement for Webber earlier than expected, because the stadium atmosphere has turned toxic and Webber won't sack his old mate. Successor refuses to take any action over erratic head coach, "needs time". "20%" Dissenters get told to stay at home Season ticket prices increase To be honest, there's probably even more than that, and certainly more detail than I could write. I'm a bit surprised you haven't noticed this yourself, but you said you were asking genuinely, so I've taken the time to outline why I think people feel this way.

Connor deserves a lot of respect for how he's tried to cover this season objectively and with as much balance as possible. To be honest, the club would be better off paying attention to what he (and other journalists) say, because they seem to be much too confident in their own collective judgement. These are people whose lives basically revolve around the club, they watch every minute of every game. The way Webber reacted to the apparent criticism just goes to show what a fragile ego that man has.

I think this is an important point. To be honest, I think it was the only reason that Smith got sacked. Not because Webber could recognize that the football was never going to get better, but because he accepted that the mood in the stands was never going to get better. I think this situation is heading in the same direction. You wont be able to sell tickets, or sell the club to prospective signings. The thing is, though, what do you expect people to do? If they think he's useless, should they just sit on it, for the greater good? That's a level of self-awareness that most football fans (or people in general) just dont have. We're always going to react emotionally, after all, the choice to support a club isnt exactly a logical one.