Wagner has gone nuclear

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,322]

Just you wait until we drop out of the top 6 tonight, then the fragile bunch will really be out! 

" All those saying we're in the top 6 and that's why he's doing a good job.... WELL WE'RE NOT IN THE TOP 6 ANYMORE ARE WE ". 

[Well b back 3,208]

4 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Because he should not be making the same mistake as Delia and attacking the fans, any fans (the volume of the chant "You Don't Know What Your Are Doing" was not a minority.). Listening to Canary Call on the way home Dean Ashton was of the opinion that what Wagner said was a dangerous thing to do and I agree with him.........

It’s a catch 22 is it not ? If it doesn’t stop, I think we happily kiss goodbye to the playoffs. If Wagner is telling the truth ( why would he lie ) the players are talking about it, and not happy about it. So at the end of the cycle, we don’t make playoffs, players are p***** off, star players leave, club gets blamed for said players leaving.

 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

9 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

He hasn’t turned on supoorters - he was very clear about that. He’s just fed up with the whining a-holes - as no doubt plenty are. I think everyone has a threshold and he reached his.

Ah bless the hugely paid manager.. how is he going to cope... meanwhile in the rest if the world...

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

3 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Just you wait until we drop out of the top 6 tonight, then the fragile bunch will really be out! 

" All those saying we're in the top 6 and that's why he's doing a good job.... WELL WE'RE NOT IN THE TOP 6 ANYMORE ARE WE ". 

Top 26 is the target yes?

[Capt. Pants 4,238]

The fans were entitled to boo as is Wagner to complain.

However the overriding point here for me is the lack of support he has from a large section of the fanbase.

It was a spontaneous reaction from far more than 20%. Bearing in mind the run we have been on, I was astounded by the level of 'hate' towards him. It was a wow moment and just confirms the lack of support he has.

I just can't see how we can move forward with him.

[Satriales 655]

Just now, Capt. Pants said:

The fans were entitled to boo as is Wagner to complain.

However the overriding point here for me is the lack of support he has from a large section of the fanbase.

It was a spontaneous reaction from far more than 20%. Bearing in mind the run we have been on, I was astounded by the level of 'hate' towards him. It was a wow moment and just confirms the lack of support he has.

I just can't see how we can move forward with him.

The fact that they were booing whilst we were winning 2-1 is what surprised me the most. Yes Watford equalised but it was an absolute worldie, the subs did make an impact and we won 4-2.

[S_81 799]

56 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

For goodness sake. We have problems with people being removed from the forum because of abusive behaviour and even a thread being closed because of behaviour like this. 

You may not agree with @S_81but can't you be a bit less rude and a bit more constructive? He has a different opinion to you and he may be right. 

Thank you. There’s some needless rudeness on here. I used to be guilty of it myself but have hopefully improved in terms of either being rude myself or biting back. Others are just condescending and outright rude. As you say, my opinion is different, but that doesn’t warrant rudeness. 
And at no point have I said the fans were right to boo. But I can understand why they are booing. The tactics are obscure at times and it’s a cumulative issue where people assume (rightly or wrongly) it will play out the same way. Last night’s boos would not have happened if he’d gone like for like on Saturday 20+ mins out, when we were on top. Rather than trying to hold the lead. 

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

3 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

The fans were entitled to boo as is Wagner to complain.

However the overriding point here for me is the lack of support he has from a large section of the fanbase.

It was a spontaneous reaction from far more than 20%. Bearing in mind the run we have been on, I was astounded by the level of 'hate' towards him. It was a wow moment and just confirms the lack of support he has.

I just can't see how we can move forward with him.

The issue is that with such a hideous 'fan-base' no other manager or frankly player would want to come here either!

He deserves our full support.

Edited February 14 by Yellow Fever

[Capt. Pants 4,238]

1 minute ago, Satriales said:

The fact that they were booing whilst we were winning 2-1 is what surprised me the most. Yes Watford equalised but it was an absolute worldie, the subs did make an impact and we won 4-2.

That's not the point though. The point is a large section of the fanbase do not like him regardless.

[S_81 799]

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

Isn’t every manager carried by a handful of talented players? Take Buendia away from Farke and we were relegation material. If Lambert lost Holt and Hoolahan for half a season we don’t win back to back promotions. If Worthy has Ashton for a full season rather than half then we would have stayed up comfortably.

Yes I agree. Especially at this level. The fact we’ve lost the amount we have yet still 6th shows how average this league is from 4th downwards - and what a difference a handful of players can make. Particularly our attacking players. Which is why the fans get so agitated if Wagner doesn’t maximise that strength. 

[Mr.Carrow 376]

3 hours ago, Virtual reality said:

Seems a section of the fan base have turned into idiots. We’ve a real chance of getting into the play offs 

Not only that, but an excellent chance of screwing up our fierce rivals renaissance and keeping the upper hand over them. Seems this doesn't matter to the morons. 

[Thumbbass 319]

10 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Once again, it made perfect sense as 1 was f***** and the other feared he had an injury, both asked to be subbed as they couldn’t carry on. 

I wasn't sat on the bench. In fact, I think they probably need a few more seats, I must see if they will accomodate me.

It's not to say it wasn't the right decision based upon the player's condition.

Actually, in the lead up to those changes Sainz and Barnes were the two looking most tired, and Sara was having a bit of a stinker. Had any or all three have been hooked it would have been understandable. But from the perspective of someone who was at the game without commentary or replays, and given DW's propensity for puzzling changes, with very little credit in the bank, as things were happening it seemed bizarre. And from that perspective, the reaction was in some ways understandable, even if I don't agree with it.

[Capt. Pants 4,238]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

The issue is that with such a hideous 'fan-base' no other manager or frankly player would want to come here either!

He deserves our full support.

Certainly deserves better support than he got, but then a lot of managers would say that, I bet Moyes does.

Anyway, there's a large section of the fanbase don't like him. I was amazed at the reaction at that particular time. 

[Jim Smith 2,322]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Simply nonsense Jim: there is no way that 5,000 people join in the booing.

Do you go to games or are you one of these fans that don't go on principle?

Not everyone disillusioned will boo. Many more are disillusioned than that. 

[Badger 2,405]

3 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

That's not the point though. The point is a large section of the fanbase do not like him regardless.

The point is that they didn't like Smith, Farke (except for when we won), Neil, Adams, Houghton either! The last manager who had sustained popularity was Lambert.

One hypothesis might be that a number of the more negative "anti-fans" left during this period - one did spectacularly on the pitch itself during the Colchester game + a fans group tried to deprive the club of transfer fans, so presumably some of them left. Success meant that some of these have crept back and said success won't come again until the "anti-fans" leave again.

I can't see how driving every manager out is a solution.

[hogesar 9,676]

Our fans are digging a whole the club is going to have really fight hard to come out of. It was apparently all Webber's fault for the discontent and disconnect. When he left, he was apparently still controlling Knapper, which gave the usual suspects an excuse to still be negative at matches.

Since then, Delia's comments provided yet another excuse they needed. But that started to drain. So now, booing subs when 2-1 up and watching us win 4-2, those Neanderthals with the IQ and football knowledge of a common squirrel are looking as dense as they always have been, it's just now they have little to hide behind.

I said those sort of people weren't real fans at the time. That is now the case more than ever. How could any football fan who wants their team to do well in a game possibly think booing whilst we're winning, booing at subs and at passing the ball backwards believe that would help?

[hogesar 9,676]

24 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Could be half-time entertainment? Boo, hiss. Seems about their level.

They're so thick they'd start booing themselves.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

11 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

And the fans need to understand it's not their decision, so shut the f*k up and get behind the team (or go home).

Idiot.

I paid my money this gives me the right to act in any way I see fit within obvious legal boundaries.

If I want to turn up with the Saturday paper and read it during the game pausing only to heckle and boo then I paid my money so I will execute my right to do what I choose.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

 

I said those sort of people weren't real fans at the time. That is now the case more than ever. How could any football fan who wants their team to do well in a game possibly think booing whilst we're winning, booing at subs and at passing the ball backwards believe that would help?

You completely miss the point.

It's got nothing to do with backing the team and everything to do with a fans total right to voice displeasure at what they are doing.

At the end of the day the primary consumer and function of football is us the people.

This has been muddied over the last 50 years so the fans are forgotten.

We are at a tough economic point and if people spend hard earnt money on watching the football then its thier choice to show displeasure.

 

 

[hogesar 9,676]

5 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Idiot.

I paid my money this gives me the right to act in any way I see fit within obvious legal boundaries.

If I want to turn up with the Saturday paper and read it during the game pausing only to heckle and boo then I paid my money so I will execute my right to do what I choose.

It does but it certainly permits other NCFC fans to question if you're actually a supporter. Just paying money doesn't make you a NCFC fan, even in this commercially driven world.

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

I don't think it is 5,000 Jim. The 20% figure for "boo boys" was always an exaggeration. Many times this season, since the minority shareholders ill-considered statement, a small section of fans in the Snakepit have tried to rally the troops with attempts at "20% you're having a laugh" but with very little response - a couple of hundred if that.

The truth is that the last few seasons have tested the patience of 100% of fans, we have had to endure some dispiriting stuff, but the small hardcore of "boo boys," who boo everything that goes wrong is a far smaller community.

If this group of non fans were to stay away, it would, in my opinion, be the best thing that could happen for the club.

 

6 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Not everyone disillusioned will boo. Many more are disillusioned than that. 

As I said in my post above, it has been hard work for all City fans at times over the last few seasons. However, we must not confuse the understandable frustration of most fans with the perpetual anti-club campaigning but a minority of "anti-fans" who oppose everything that does the club does and implacably opposed to it.

Think of it as an isosceles triangle standing on its base: the top of the cone has a small number of anti-fans that are simply opposed to the club; below that is a larger group that are impatient and turn very quickly at the first sign of difficulty (fair weather supporters); below them is a larger group who are more patient but can become vocally frustrated etc etc.

At the base there is a group of fans that I believe to be the majority, who would not boo the players and club during the game. We might argue about how far down the triangle or pyramid the disillusionment might lie, but sure we agree that we are better of without the anti-fans and the fair weather supporters?

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

1 minute ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Ah bless the hugely paid manager.. how is he going to cope... meanwhile in the rest if the world...

Way to go to miss the point - what has his salary got to do with it? 

We’re on a decent run, it has been a bit patchy but we’ve managed to get our way into the top 6. Most supporters would probably be quite content at that, but for some reason not ours. I imagine supporters of other sides are somewhat bemused by it.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

Just now, hogesar said:

It does but it certainly permits other NCFC fans to question if you're actually a supporter. Just paying money doesn't make you a NCFC fan, even in this commercially driven world.

No it doesn't though it's pathetic.

We are all supporters , we all love the club or we wouldn't be discussing this.

Saying your a happy clapper or boo boy is actually playground stupid.

Backing the team / showing frustration it's still passion.

 

[East Rider 551]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Our fans are digging a whole the club is going to have really fight hard to come out of.

 

Unfortunately this is it in a nutshell. We, the support is causing damage which may take a while to overcome at this rate.

I sit in the centre of the upper River end and there are fans there who NEVER support the team vocally, NO MATTER how or who we are playing. Yet last night they were the first to start booing the substitution of probably our most important player WHO IS BEING MANAGED BACK FROM INJURY. You couldn't make this stuff up. Petulance, petty and pathetic.

Why would a player choose us over another team (money aside)? The players 100% react to the booing and luckily we came up with a result last night.

I firmly believe we need a change in manager and importantly coaches, at the end of the season, but our support is more likely going to be destroying this one (season) first.

 

 

[Badger 2,405]

10 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

If I want to turn up with the Saturday paper and read it during the game pausing only to heckle and boo then I paid my money so I will execute my right to do what I choose.

Just about sums it up really.

Of course you are within your legal rights to do so, but if you had any empathy you would understand why real fans might think we would be better off without you.

[Ian 1,129]

1 hour ago, Thumbbass said:

With the benefit of hindsight and the final score, the booing seems idiotic. But sat there watching the momentum of the game slip away from us then removing the two most effective players on the night certainly seemed complete lunacy. I didn't boo, but there were definitely people in the South Stand who took offence to those subs and were booing. It doesn't take many motivated voices to start to resonate around the stadium, especially once the part of the lizard brain kicks in.

TBH I was just really sad to see Onel have to traipse round the pitch to boos when actually he'd had a very good game. No way should he have been hooked for Fassnacht at that point in the game. Terrible decicision at the time, but DW got lucky.

But the reality of the situation is that both Hernandez and Sarge were blowing and needed to be substituted (according to Wagner after the game any way). This was illustrated pretty clearly by our increased control of the match with the substitutions that were made.

This is my main problem with the booing - it's usually based on half a story, or a perceived notion of what the story is. I get that this is really a cumulative cause/effect based on the season, but I really don't think people consider the injuries Wagner has had to deal with, or the lack of depth in our squad.

The football we played early doors last night was very attractive and entertaining IMO. If this was peoples' main concern with Wagner, I don't think it's reasonable to boo considering that we are making progress, and have now hit the top six.

[Google Bot 3,278]

5 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

I paid my money this gives me the right to act in any way I see fit within obvious legal boundaries.

I pay for food in a busy restaurant but wouldn't boo everytime a waitress walked out with someone else's food before mine as i've been waiting an hour.  People doing the best they can deserve respect in my opinion.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Just about sums it up really.

Of course you are within your legal rights to do so, but if you had any empathy you would understand why real fans might think we would be better off without you.

Real fans.

Such a playground comment.

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

3 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I pay for food in a busy restaurant but wouldn't boo everytime a waitress walked out with someone else's food before mine as i've been waiting an hour.  People doing the best they can deserve respect in my opinion.

Maybe if you demanded she hurry up you wouldn't have been sat there like a melon for an hour?

Edited February 14 by Nexus_Canary

[Google Bot 3,278]

4 hours ago, S_81 said:

Wagner being carried by a handful of our talented players isn’t just a fair conclusion, it’s an obvious conclusion.

Ignoring the fact that you're sat on your phone posting these observations online as the rest of the ground is in celebration of the goal, of course.