Reasons for Wagner to stay?

[Canary Jedi 590]

Are there any? Serious question.

Only one I can think of is to avoid a financial payout to Wagner and his coaching staff. But that would be short sighted and more costly in long run through having an underperforming team. 

[BroadstairsR 2,203]

19 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said:

Are there any? Serious question.

Only one I can think of is to avoid a financial payout to Wagner and his coaching staff. But that would be short sighted and more costly in long run through having an underperforming team. 

After the recent run of (fair) success as far as points collecting goes, I suppose he deserved a crack at the play-offs (in which we have scant hope of winning, but will at least earn some extra money and may get some excitement from at last.)

It would allow Knapper more time to select the right replacement, for it should only be, imo, a stay of execution. I would shiver at the prospects of us starting next season with David Wagner at the helm.

Therefore, let's see how the next few results pan out? 

After Millwall I am not hopeful though, so perhaps this is false thinking and the sooner him and his lot are on their bikes the better might make more sense,

[canarycop 209]

I reckon the final nail in the coffin will be tomorrow. Sainz available but won't be in squad as punishment and banished to u21s. Changes both centre halves again and plays Kenny at left back and hangs Fisher out to dry on the right. Forshaw in the middle behind Sara and Nunez with Onel and Farsi wide and Barnes up on his own. Would we be surprised to see Rowe Sarge etc on bench. Wagner will finally lose the plot stick two pencils up his nose and go wibble wibble in a Blackadder style before trying to convince us all we can still win the league. 

Now'watch us beat the Saints by 3 and he survives another week

[Jim Smith 2,339]

There should be no more chances. Have we not learnt by now that this “if he doesn’t beat x” approach just drags things out? He’s not good enough and he never will be. There is no valid reason for not getting rid now. 

[Indy 3,315]

I’m still not convinced either way, been a big supporter in terms of his image and talk is in line with what I want, BUT if he was involved in the summer signings and the style of dross being delivered on the pitch, his lack of vision to change things to impact a game for the positive seriously makes me think his time is up!

But without a good replacement lined up and not one who has just experienced being sacked because he’s failed at another club! We need a lambert or Farke an up and coming successful manner or coach who isn’t carrying failure with him! Both Smith & Wagner have come with this and struggled!

I still think Carlos Cuesta, someone who’s involved in a high flying team and knows how to develop young players! 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

The only reason I can think of is that we are in such a sorry state that even firing a misfiring and tactically inept manager is too costly given our lack of money. Our put bluntly - he’s the best we can afford at present 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Dean Coneys boots

[The Real Buh 3,480]

The reason is always the same now

He stays because Delia thinks he’s an awfully nice fellow.

Shes the crazy cat lady of British football, taking in the strays.

[Big O 225]

The only reason I can see this is that with the squad we have and the mass turnover of players likely in the summer (out of contract etc) it would be a bad place for a new manager to land well in. It therefore is perhaps sensible to let him keep going and give the new broom the chance to weigh up the squad and direction of travel without all the pressure and public glare. I have no doubt Knapper has a view who he wants in the role. 

[hogesar 9,740]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

The only reason I can think of is that we are in such a sorry state that even firing a misfiring and tactically inept manager is too costly given our lack of money. Our put bluntly - he’s the best we can afford at present 

This is obviously, as in really obviously, not the reason whatsoever.

We have been close to administration and still sacked managers. As have every other club. No one keeps a manager because of a 1 year payout. Its a really bad conclusion to arrive to if you've paid attention to football whatsoever.

The more obvious reason is Knapper doesn't have a replacement. 

[Midlands Yellow 4,075]

He’s a good dancer. 

[BigFish 1,988]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

The more obvious reason is Knapper doesn't have a replacement. 

This is obviously key, there is no point sacking Wagner now if we are not going to have something better in place immediatly. Many on here forecast a mid-table (or worse) finish this year so on that metric Wagner is actually achieving as expected despite the hyperbole. The Champs this season is stronger than it has been for years so promotion was always unlikely.

[Coneys Knee 986]

I think there’s no sense or need to be in a hurry to sack him. This season is a write off. Yes we are still in touch with the playoffs but the reality is we’re not good enough to be one of those 4 come end of season.

Equally we have a very small risk of relegation. So whilst I don’t think Wagner is our long term solution, I’d rather he stay put and we do our homework on a potential replacement in the background. Take our time and hopefully minimalist the risk of another balls up of an appointment.

There is also the fact that there are bigger problems at this club than David Wagner!

[Jim Smith 2,339]

3 minutes ago, BigFish said:

This is obviously key, there is no point sacking Wagner now if we are not going to have something better in place immediatly. Many on here forecast a mid-table (or worse) finish this year so on that metric Wagner is actually achieving as expected despite the hyperbole. The Champs this season is stronger than it has been for years so promotion was always unlikely.

It is simply not an acceptable attitude to say that expected mid table so he’s doing ok. His performance as coach can only be described as appalling in my view. 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

Just now, Coneys Knee said:

I think there’s no sense or need to be in a hurry to sack him. This season is a write off. Yes we are still in touch with the playoffs but the reality is we’re not good enough to be one of those 4 come end of season.

Equally we have a very small risk of relegation. So whilst I don’t think Wagner is our long term solution, I’d rather he stay put and we do our homework on a potential replacement in the background. Take our time and hopefully minimalist the risk of another balls up of an appointment.

There is also the fact that there are bigger problems at this club than David Wagner!

We cannot write the season off. Seasons can change very quickly. We absolutely could make the top 6 and win the playoffs with a bit more competency about the place. 

[Coneys Knee 986]

4 minutes ago, BigFish said:

This is obviously key, there is no point sacking Wagner now if we are not going to have something better in place immediatly. Many on here forecast a mid-table (or worse) finish this year so on that metric Wagner is actually achieving as expected despite the hyperbole. The Champs this season is stronger than it has been for years so promotion was always unlikely.

This is not a strong league. The fact we’re so close to the playoffs despite playing so poorly shows that surely?

[In my blood 39]

If Wagner stays, he can put up a case to Knapper that injuries and a limited squad have stiffled his plans and he needs time to change and implement his high energy style.The question is, will Knapper go along and work with Wagner to this end. The problem with that is you change the squad to a particular style and a new manager may be a different tactician. That time is then wasted.

None of us know the workings behind the scenes and the decisions being made.

I can see some posters reasoning in wanting to be optimistic about Wagner. But the performances and tactics, to me, tell a different story.  He needs to go.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,592]

9 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

We cannot write the season off. Seasons can change very quickly. We absolutely could make the top 6 and win the playoffs with a bit more competency about the place. 

Completely agree. Some have written off the whole squad, but I don't think there's any basis to conclude the squad itself isn't capable of better, while there have been a lot of managerial decisions that haven't delivered results and nobody seems to understand why they were made.

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,425]

The trouble is, in the pond we're fishing in, will the next manager fare any better.

I'm not a fan of chopping and changing the manager quite so often.

Let's see what January brings and then take it from there.. 

[Harry53 211]

2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

There should be no more chances. Have we not learnt by now that this “if he doesn’t beat x” approach just drags things out? He’s not good enough and he never will be. There is no valid reason for not getting rid now. 

I hope you are wrong about Sainz

[littleyellowbirdie 2,592]

12 minutes ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

The trouble is, in the pond we're fishing in, will the next manager fare any better.

I'm not a fan of chopping and changing the manager quite so often.

Let's see what January brings and then take it from there.. 

Ordinarily, I'd completely agree with you. I don't see us doing worse with another manager. We've had an entire season of Wagner football at championship level where we're doing the worst we've done in over half a decade. Nobody seems to believe Wagner is capable of being a long term prospect for success, nobody expects anything from this season any more, so what's the harm in changing? Is it not worth twisting in a bid to have even half a chance at the playoffs? Promotion is worth pursuing, if only for the injection of money into the club.

In recent history, it seems complete unknown managers with a point to prove seem to be best received at Norwich and also seem to do best.

Edited December 31, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Harry53 211]

20 minutes ago, Coneys Knee said:

I think there’s no sense or need to be in a hurry to sack him. This season is a write off. Yes we are still in touch with the playoffs but the reality is we’re not good enough to be one of those 4 come end of season.

Equally we have a very small risk of relegation. So whilst I don’t think Wagner is our long term solution, I’d rather he stay put and we do our homework on a potential replacement in the background. Take our time and hopefully minimalist the risk of another balls up of an appointment.

There is also the fact that there are bigger problems at this club than David Wagner!

I agree we are not good enough,  and let's be honest,  does any fan really want promotion this season with this squad?

If we fluked it can you imagine the sheer misery of trying to stay up? We need to rebuild, forget promotion and do what Ipswich are doing. Start afresh.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

2 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

The reason is always the same now

He stays because Delia thinks he’s an awfully nice fellow.

Shes the crazy cat lady of British football, taking in the strays.

                                                 Or the Bette Davis character from 'Whatever happened to Baby Jane'....

                                                                  

"Welcome once again Ben, David, lovely Stu an' Zoe, Neeyul and my dear Neppers Tom to Nana Norwich FC Smith's 'Stowmarket Supper Club'.....This evening the main agenda is....how in the next 2 years we can discredit those awful goddamn boorish baseball an' beer brewin' American's and hopefully send 'em back West across the Atlantic?".... 

[BroadstairsR 2,203]

9 minutes ago, Harry53 said:

I agree we are not good enough,  and let's be honest,  does any fan really want promotion this season with this squad?

If we fluked it can you imagine the sheer misery of trying to stay up? We need to rebuild, forget promotion and do what Ipswich are doing. Start afresh.

I do Harry.

We've had this discussion a lot.

IMO, a cynical promotion not spending too much after it is gained either in the market or on wages will put the finances straight for a few seasons, even with the likelihood of another yo-yo.

That's the system. Play it, don't run away from it.

Also, Premier League existence would surely persuade Annatasio and his prospective Australian partners to invest more.

Sod the humiliation, at least the bank manager will be happy, even if the collective worthies of MotD won't be. There might even be some to spend on the stadium one way or the other.

And you never know. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[Harry53 211]

2 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

I do Harry.

We've had this discussion a lot.

IMO, a cynical promotion not spending too much after it is gained either in the market or on wages will put the finances straight for a few seasons, even with the likelihood of another yo-yo.

That's the system. Play it, don't run away from it.

Also, Premier League existence would surely persuade Annatasio and his prospective Australian partners to invest more.

Sod the humiliation, at least the bank balance will be happy and there might even be some to spend on the stadium one way or the other.

And you never know. 

You make some good points. Football is all about money these days,  but so much fans enjoyment. So I guess with new players and management we would have to just grin and bear it. We all knew Luton were going to struggle but I tipped them to stay up due to their self belief, and they are having some good games and competing well. That's the least I would hope for if we went up,  but without a serious change in style and quality we are going no where.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,794]

As Delia would probably tell you

 

"He's a nice bloke and we are not a sacking club.. And it's all down to injuries anyways"

[Yobocop 1,105]

4 hours ago, Canary Jedi said:

Are there any? Serious question.

Only one I can think of is to avoid a financial payout to Wagner and his coaching staff. But that would be short sighted and more costly in long run through having an underperforming team. 

A late entry for devils advocate post of the year 

[hogesar 9,740]

50 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

We cannot write the season off. Seasons can change very quickly. We absolutely could make the top 6 and win the playoffs with a bit more competency about the place. 

If that's true then why is their still a thread damning Webber for a diabolical transfer window? If the window was that diabolical then surely Wagner is over-performing?

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

He clearly was able to persuade the board that the injuries we've had were a mitigating factor.

Well that excuse has been removed now he has an almost (bar giannoulis) full squad available

It now purely stands of falls on his team selections and subs

Edited December 31, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[S_81 842]

4 hours ago, Canary Jedi said:

Are there any? Serious question.

Only one I can think of is to avoid a financial payout to Wagner and his coaching staff. But that would be short sighted and more costly in long run through having an underperforming team. 

There’s no good reasons for Wagner to stay. Just excuses 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

1 hour ago, Harry53 said:

I hope you are wrong about Sainz

What about Sainz?