Sold talent

[Yellowhammer 86]

Matos, Morris , mumba 3 players we should have kept and give game time to ,instead of these older players , what other players should not have been sold ? I always thought Sean raggett should have been given a chance 

[ged in the onion bag 855]

3 minutes ago, Yellowhammer said:

Matos, Morris , mumba 3 players we should have kept and give game time to ,instead of these older players , what other players should not have been sold ? I always thought Sean raggett should have been given a chance 

Harry Toffolo, Andrew Omobamidele… 

[Midlands Yellow 3,987]

Husband, Hartson and Walsh. 

[Nuff Said 5,142]

Matos was never going to stay with bigger clubs sniffing around, exactly as we do with youngsters from smaller clubs (which once upon a time included Luton).

[king canary 7,607]

Ah the great Carlton Morris delusion continues. He was an injury prone 25 year old who'd never managed double figures even in League One, while we were sitting top of the championship table. 

Mumba I agree though- criminal to sell him while spending the same amount on Fassnacht and keeping Onel.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821]

Morris and Toffolo are pure hindsight, especially Morris. 

We sold Morris when he was 25, and the below is his career record at that point. For context, Idah is currently three years younger than Morris was when we sold him, and Idah's Championship record is already better than what Morris' was in League One.

 

Also, Matos chose to walk out on us rather than the other way round I believe, so no blame can be attached to the club. 

Raggett was sold in the summer of 2020 at the age of 26 and has only ever played League One football since. He's 29 now and if he were good enough for the Championship, someone would've signed him by now.

The only one I think was a poor decision was Mumba. I, and many others, felt that he was sold too soon and was also undervalued, and would surely have been a better option than a few of our other wingers this season. The fee we got for him was also less than one year's salary of Barnes and Duffy, possibly the lesser-spotted Batth too.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

i do wonder if someone like Matos would have walked out if he was in first team ?

i never saw him play but he is on the bench for a big PL team ,

so he must be good enough for our 1st 11 ,

was it a case of you are signing older players like Batth so i will not get a chance i am off ? 

was it chelsea offered more money ? in that case why didn't we as in i would rather have Matos who could earn us millions on good money than a 30 + year old ,

Same with Sara and Rowe i would rather not have a Barnes and give his salary to Rowe and Sara in extended deals 

Sara and Rowe are our best players who perform Barnes does not 

Sara and Rowe have resale values Barnes does not 

Matos must have been good enough for our team 

 

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821]

9 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

i do wonder if someone like Matos would have walked out if he was in first team ?

i never saw him play but he is on the bench for a big PL team ,

so he must be good enough for our 1st 11 ,

was it a case of you are signing older players like Batth so i will not get a chance i am off ? 

was it chelsea offered more money ? in that case why didn't we as in i would rather have Matos who could earn us millions on good money than a 30 + year old ,

Same with Sara and Rowe i would rather not have a Barnes and give his salary to Rowe and Sara in extended deals 

Sara and Rowe are our best players who perform Barnes does not 

Sara and Rowe have resale values Barnes does not 

Matos must have been good enough for our team 

I think it was clear long before he left that Matos wasn't going to sign a new deal here, so there became little point in blooding him in the first team. 

He also signed with Chelsea before we signed Batth, Duffy, Barnes et al, so that wouldn't have been a factor. We were still in full 'youth and inexperience' mode at the time.

In addition, clubs like Chelsea offer insane wages to highly-rated 17/18-year-olds, the sort of wages our first team are on, and we wouldn't have been able to compete because then all the other youth team players would want much bigger wages as well.

I don't think we could've possibly found a realistic solution. 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I think it was clear long before he left that Matos wasn't going to sign a new deal here, so there became little point in blooding him in the first team. 

He also signed with Chelsea before we signed Batth, Duffy, Barnes et al, so that wouldn't have been a factor. We were still in full 'youth and inexperience' mode at the time.

In addition, clubs like Chelsea offer insane wages to highly-rated 17/18-year-olds, the sort of wages our first team are on, and we wouldn't have been able to compete because then all the other youth team players would want much bigger wages as well.

I don't think we could've possibly found a realistic solution. 

that's fair enough ,

one thing we need to break though is if we do get a very good youth player he we need to pay him more ,

i get this wages thing but someone like Rowe and Sara  should be our highest paid because he performs ,

at the moment we waste far to much of the likes of Gibson , Barnes ,Argos , PP , Bartth , Forshaw  etc 

 

[TheBaldOne66 687]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

Matos was never going to stay with bigger clubs sniffing around, exactly as we do with youngsters from smaller clubs (which once upon a time included Luton).

Matos left because he didn’t get a chance in the first team apparently. I’m sure he’d have been better than the dross on show currently!

[king canary 7,607]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Morris and Toffolo are pure hindsight, especially Morris. 

Don't fully agree on Toffolo. He had a number of successful loan spells but Neil just wouldn't use him- he had a perfect opportunity when we sold Olsson and Brady but instead he played Whittaker out of position and signed Dijks on a short term loan.

Toffolo is actually a perfect example of why the kind of pathway from youth to first team Webber focused on needed to happen. You had a talented young player in a position of need but the manager was chasing short term goals rather than thinking of the bigger picture.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

2 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Husband, Hartson and Walsh. 

Sounds like a firm of solicitors 

[Nora's Ghost 157]

Delia sees talent as money in the bank. Always has.

My how the great Robert Chase got castigated for doing much less after so many wonderful years of success..

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

Wasn't it Cameron mcgheeghan who Huck's labeled as the most technically gifted players he worked with? He went off to obscurity although he married one of the wazzoks from made in Chelsea so netted himself a top end wag.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821]

11 minutes ago, king canary said:

Don't fully agree on Toffolo. He had a number of successful loan spells but Neil just wouldn't use him- he had a perfect opportunity when we sold Olsson and Brady but instead he played Whittaker out of position and signed Dijks on a short term loan.

Toffolo is actually a perfect example of why the kind of pathway from youth to first team Webber focused on needed to happen. You had a talented young player in a position of need but the manager was chasing short term goals rather than thinking of the bigger picture.

Fair point. I didn't see him in any of his loan spells so I can't comment on whether he was ready, but it's worth noting that he was 22 when we let him go in January 2018, he then joined another Championship side in Millwall, and they released him that summer without him playing a game. He then went to League Two before Huddersfield brought him back to the Championship two years later.

So it wasn't just us that didn't fancy him. Maybe he wasn't Championship ready, and was just a late bloomer?

[shefcanary 2,409]

13 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Wasn't it Cameron mcgheeghan who Huck's labeled as the most technically gifted players he worked with? He went off to obscurity although he married one of the wazzoks from made in Chelsea so netted himself a top end wag.

Got sent off in a league 2 game yesterday. He had it all .... 🤣

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

31 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Matos left because he didn’t get a chance in the first team apparently. I’m sure he’d have been better than the dross on show currently!

This is similar to what I’ve heard from someone in the academy set up. 

[king canary 7,607]

40 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Wasn't it Cameron mcgheeghan who Huck's labeled as the most technically gifted players he worked with? He went off to obscurity although he married one of the wazzoks from made in Chelsea so netted himself a top end wag.

He was doing well elsewhere and had a horrific leg break which seemed to set him back.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

21 minutes ago, king canary said:

He was doing well elsewhere and had a horrific leg break which seemed to set him back.

Ah that always sucks, I want to think he was abroad? 
Edit: Just checked it was Belgium, but genuinely he has done more than I thought! (Good Ol FM)

 

[Mello Yello 2,296]

Sod talent

[CDMullins 436]

3 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Harry Toffolo, Andrew Omobamidele… 

Toffolo over Lewis?

 

No chance 

[Mason 47 1,379]

My understanding of the Matos situation is that he was in line to get minutes at the tail end of last season (as per agreed development plan) but following Chelsea showing interest made it clear that he had no interest in signing new terms with us. As a result Kamara got those minutes instead.

[Nuff Said 5,142]

8 hours ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Matos left because he didn’t get a chance in the first team apparently. I’m sure he’d have been better than the dross on show currently!

Didn’t Glenn Middleton think something similar, so he left us to go to Rangers? I believe he’s currently tearing it up for Dundee United. 😐 :- |

Edited December 30, 2023 by Nuff Said

[Ulfotto 635]

Gotta to love someone who leaves Norwich for Chelsea in the search of more first team minutes. A club who literally have no track record of developing young players. 

[Ulfotto 635]

10 hours ago, Nora's Ghost said:

Delia sees talent as money in the bank. Always has.

My how the great Robert Chase got castigated for doing much less after so many wonderful years of success..

I think the difference between Delia and Chase is that Delia is honest about how the club is run. The goal is to break even. Robert Chase said Sutton wouldn’t be sold he was. He told Martin O’Neill there was money to spend there wasn’t. 

[ged in the onion bag 855]

8 hours ago, CDMullins said:

Toffolo over Lewis?

 

No chance 

Hmmm!    Just wondering, do you judge a player based on :-

a) what you hear from other fans

b) trust that the manager’s know what they are doing when making team selections?   
 

c) the pink un!

 

 

[Fen Canary 828]

12 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Husband, Hartson and Walsh. 

Bellamy, Sutton, Ashton, Eadie

[NewNestCarrow 191]

9 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

This is similar to what I’ve heard from someone in the academy set up. 

The recent article on Matos in The Athletic is interesting. 

Matos was going on trial to PL clubs in March. Does that strike you as someone who was committed to NCFC? 

Matos was a boyhood Chelsea fan. Again, that was always likely to sway his decision-making.

He was not exactly tearing it up for us last season [just 7 starts for the U23s, zero gls & two assists], and beyond U15 level he had been ignored by the England set-up.

He's made a couple of appearances for a Chelsea side decimated by injury & struggling in mid-table, so he's not exactly Frank Lampard!

[BigFish 1,987]

1 hour ago, Ulfotto said:

Gotta to love someone who leaves Norwich for Chelsea in the search of more first team minutes. A club who literally have no track record of developing young players. 

Give your head a wobble, probably a late contender for the dumbest post of 2023. If you compare Chelsea's developed players with ours recently it is no contest, and spoiler City don't win.

If you are young, ambitious and want to play at the highest level (let alone earn much more) and you are given the choice between Chelsea and Norwich the choice is Chelsea.

[Ulfotto 635]

7 hours ago, BigFish said:

Give your head a wobble, probably a late contender for the dumbest post of 2023. If you compare Chelsea's developed players with ours recently it is no contest, and spoiler City don't win.

If you are young, ambitious and want to play at the highest level (let alone earn much more) and you are given the choice between Chelsea and Norwich the choice is Chelsea.

Really? The guy is 19 he has Cole Palmer ahead of him and Chelsea have spent a billion pounds on transfers in the last two season and will continue to spend without a thought for developing players. What Matos has signed up for is being loaned out for the next 2-3 seasons before being sold at an inflated price to Crystal Palace to fulfill Chelsea financial fair play requirements and that is the best case. You can call it ambition but it is really about money.  If he is as good as obviously thinks he is he could have committed to Norwich last season instead of trialling at premier league teams and would have been a semi regular first team player this season getting the minutes this season that have gone to Springett, Placheta and Hernandez.