Worse keepers than Long?...

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821]

4 minutes ago, Ian said:

Fair to say Krul and Gunn to Gunn and Long is a bigger downgrade than we might have realised.

Genuinely believe we wouldn't be shipping the ****e we are shipping right now if someone with Krul's personality was between the sticks.

Agree with this, and I'll hold my hands up and admit that I was one of those saying that we should free ourselves of Krul's £2m-a-year wages and sign a cheaper number two. But I guess it's tough to legislate for Gunn being out for a couple of months with an injury. 

As for Long, I don't think he's made any real howlers, but I can't remember any stunning saves either. The biggest criticism would be his shot stopping, as a lot of his goals leave you thinking that he maybe could've done better. I don't think we'd have conceded as many recently with Gunn or the Krul of three years ago in goal.

[Ian 1,130]

5 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Not at all - just in a melee of people finding their new scapegoat, someone trying to suggest mitigation sounds like an apologist.  Imo he hasn’t done that much wrong, and no keeper is perfect. I don’t overly blame him for the third, but I seem alone in that.  I can live with it.

And you don’t need to be condescending.

I don't think it's scapegoating, but there was a good chance we won that game tonight if we could hold out until at least half time.

We have seen numerous times this season the debilitating effect conceding a goal has on our mentally weak squad, so it was disappointing to see us gift this one up so easily.

That said, our defence were so unbelievably bad at stopping shots and crosses coming into the box it really wasn't a surprise we shipped 3 goals again tonight. I wouldn't blame Long, but he did have the opportunity to win us the game tonight.

[Ken Hairy 3,773]

The annoying thing is all whilst we're playing Long, Krul is sat in Luton getting splinters in his ****. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

Get Ben Wilson in from Coventry, 20 plus clean sheets last season but on the bench now. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

55 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Listen to them all you want - I prefer to trust my own judgement and not a kneejerk reaction. The guy I sit next to at FCR is an ex keeper and he reckons Long has done little wrong. I’ll trust him over you lot any day. 

Are you also Long’s agent? 

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Are you also Long’s agent? 

Coo, you’re funny…

I’ve not once said he’s “great” I just don’t think he’s that bad.  I have rewatched their goals, the third for me was as more down to poor defending as him, they had the reaction time of the geriatrics they are.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Branston Pickle

[Jim Smith 2,322]

He’s pretty awful. To be fair, up until tonight although I’d been unconvinced yes not made any real errors. But there is just something about him that screams “trying too hard.” We desperately need Angus back 

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

Coo, you’re funny…

Let’s have a laugh and stop being precious, are you his agent in all seriousness? 

[Wirecanary 26]

Get serious hardly a scapegoat …he hasn’t played well or looked solid in a multiple of games .. to be fair a lot of other players been equally as poor but as we all know goalies mistakes highlighted so much more as they normally equal goals conceded… 

[Mason 47 1,382]

I've certainly not been seeing the awful, awful keeper many seem to, but Long was a key weakness tonight. The first goal though powerful should be kept out by a decent Championship keeper. Second goal is a bonus if he saves, but the third he must, must, must push the ball wide. He had a very similar save against QPR in which the ball spins off him directly in front, but we scrambled that one away.

I wouldn't be having Reyes in, but with Long in goal we simply can't give the opposition 10+ opportunities to line one up from 20 yards. One of many negative traits of our current manner of playing.

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

6 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I've certainly not been seeing the awful, awful keeper many seem to, but Long was a key weakness tonight. The first goal though powerful should be kept out by a decent Championship keeper. Second goal is a bonus if he saves, but the third he must, must, must push the ball wide. He had a very similar save against QPR in which the ball spins off him directly in front, but we scrambled that one away.

I wouldn't be having Reyes in, but with Long in goal we simply can't give the opposition 10+ opportunities to line one up from 20 yards. One of many negative traits of our current manner of playing.

That is far more inline with my thinking - though I’m less harsh on the third, I think it’s a fair save and he did try to push it wide, just nowhere near hard enough. For me, the defence wasn’t sharp enough to help cover. 

[Mason 47 1,382]

2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

That is far more inline with my thinking - though I’m less harsh on the third, I think it’s a fair save and he did try to push it wide, just nowhere near hard enough. For me, the defence wasn’t sharp enough to help cover. 

With this I just feel there was such a long time between Hoedts first touch, and the shot-which is hardly a ****pinger- so Long should be better set than he ends up being. He has to dash left as he's well off centre and instead of really pushing it aside he has to sort-of claw the ball away almost from behind himself.

This is aside from the fact Hoedt has about 3 working days to take the ball down and line the shot up, and what ends up being a great piece of skill by Asprilla. I don't think we'd have won the game with Gunn in, either, as conceding a few per game is likely if you give up 20+ shots on goal from 20 yards consistently.

[hogesar 9,676]

He doesn't really excel at anything. He arguably should have done better for the first and third but then had some good moments dealing with deflections.

But he's not a great shot-stopper at this level.

He is the worst I've seen at any attempt to controlling his area and taking charge - he comes for very, very little. It's probably Gunn's biggest weakness and Long is worse.

But worth noting that the Goalkeeper is going to get scrutinised more when we play with zero ability to hold onto the ball for 45 minutes +

[TheBaldOne66 690]

5 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Makes some easy saves look spectacular but he hasn't come close to saving anything beyond what you would expect an average Championship GK to save. He is good enough to be a regular in L1 or a lower Championship team's backup GK but given how many good GK's there are out there and our recent level of being a top Championship/bottom PL team it's more a failure of scouting and recruitment that we've ended up with him as a backup. He should be Millwall or Huddersfield's no.2, not ours. Championship backup GK's are never anything special but we could have and should have done better. 

In case you haven’t looked at the table lately, we ARE a lower Championship team ffs! 

[Osborne17 11]

From the stands tonight (it's not shown / noticeable in the highlights on YouTube) I noticed just how aggressively angry Kenny got with Long after the second goal. It was a right old rollocking and, dare I say, seemed to be almost... too aggressive.

I think someone on this forum has suggested that, through a player's father, they have become aware of an alleged split in the dressing room. 

Which begs the question, even if we were to get rid of Wagner, would that heal such a split. 

I was rather taken aback by Kenny's reaction if I'm honest. It's not for me to judge whether it was warranted or not, but it did nothing to get everyone's heads up after conceding two quick goals.

 

 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,286]

8 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

That’s just so far wrong- first goal he should probably get to, but can’t be blamed for the other two: the third he made a good initial save for.

And as for quoting Millwall fans, just @&!* off.

Wake up ffs

[City 2nd 191]

Theoklitos would be better than LONG! I would be better!

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,286]

A stat I heard the other day was that Long concedes for every 3rd shot on target. that’s abysmal. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,286]

He isn’t very well protected by our fragility defensively, but it’s clear as day he’s a poor shot stopper and doesn’t command his area.

Millwall fans were massively critical of him. You can’t just ignore that. Incredible incompetence from Webber and the recruitment team. The guy is finished as a GK at this level. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

He spills everything. He has no presence or authority in the box. His fumbles cost us. 

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

9 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Listen to them all you want - I prefer to trust my own judgement and not a kneejerk reaction. The guy I sit next to at FCR is an ex keeper and he reckons Long has done little wrong. I’ll trust him over you lot any day. 

As an ex-goalkeeper and goalkeeping coach myself, being a fully paid up member of the goalkeeper's union, had I conceded those three goals tonight I would be blaming myself for goals 1 and 3 and be thinking I could have reacted better to the deflection for the second had my positioning been slightly better.

 

 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,768]

3 hours ago, Osborne17 said:

From the stands tonight (it's not shown / noticeable in the highlights on YouTube) I noticed just how aggressively angry Kenny got with Long after the second goal. It was a right old rollocking and, dare I say, seemed to be almost... too aggressive.

I think someone on this forum has suggested that, through a player's father, they have become aware of an alleged split in the dressing room. 

Which begs the question, even if we were to get rid of Wagner, would that heal such a split. 

I was rather taken aback by Kenny's reaction if I'm honest. It's not for me to judge whether it was warranted or not, but it did nothing to get everyone's heads up after conceding two quick goals.

 

 

I was behind the goal for the first....McLean also had a go at him for conceding that too

[Capt. Pants 4,246]

The harsh reality is Long has cost us a point tonight, maybe 3, although clearly they deserved the win.

Watford were starting to run out of ideas and parrying that shot directly to their player was the little bit of good fortune they needed.

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

2 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Wake up ffs

Get a life and grow up a bit?

Edited November 29, 2023 by Branston Pickle

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

1 hour ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

As an ex-goalkeeper and goalkeeping coach myself, being a fully paid up member of the goalkeeper's union, had I conceded those three goals tonight I would be blaming myself for goals 1 and 3 and be thinking I could have reacted better to the deflection for the second had my positioning been slightly better.

 

 

Good for you - I’ll introduce you to the ex-pro I sit next to and you can take it up with him.

[daly 504]

2 hours ago, City 2nd said:

Theoklitos would be better than LONG! I would be better!

Following the 3–0 loss to Melbourne Victory, Theoklitos had gone 876 minutes without conceding a goal, setting a new record for the most minutes without conceding a goal in an Australian League—beating former recordholder Jeff Olver's record of 790 minutes.^[16] Theoklitos won the Goalkeeper of the Year award for the 2010/11 A-League season.

[daly 504]

Just now, daly said:

Following the 3–0 loss to Melbourne Victory, Theoklitos had gone 876 minutes without conceding a goal, setting a new record for the most minutes without conceding a goal in an Australian League—beating former recordholder Jeff Olver's record of 790 minutes.^[16] Theoklitos won the Goalkeeper of the Year award for the 2010/11 A-League season.

Perhaps Ant and Dec could make contact 

[Olano 100]

I have no problem with Long, he is a backup keeper.

 

What I have a problem with is that we have a bunch of young hungry players. Can't we have them as backup? 

[Sooty57 403]

No keeper is going to shine with that defence in front of them. We weren't exactly setting the division alight with Gunn in goal.

[BigFish 1,988]

12 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Simon Tracey

Theoklitos

....struggling after that

Gloves made of wet soap,  may aswell kept McGovern

If Gunn isnt fit at the weekend, play Reyes

Cant play this guy again

Worth agreeing with this post as I often disagree with GJL. Shows the problem of having an old lag as your back up with the intention of never playing him. Not really good enough and not getting better. Perhaps Reyes isn't good enough but playing would at least help his development. Long cost us points last night, doubt it could be worse.