Sargent off to Leeds?

[jaberry2 556]

I think to summarise Leeds are linked to a number of signings currently and wouldnt be surprised to see them sign 3/4 players. I doubt Sarg will be one of those players. Leeds have started badly, but they will be a dangerous side later in the season and would be surprised to not see them in the top 4.

[Danke bitte 967]

5 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

I think to summarise Leeds are linked to a number of signings currently and wouldnt be surprised to see them sign 3/4 players. I doubt Sarg will be one of those players. Leeds have started badly, but they will be a dangerous side later in the season and would be surprised to not see them in the top 4.

Agreed, that’s if they give Farke time to implement his tried and tested methods. 

[jaberry2 556]

Just now, Danke bitte said:

Agreed, that’s if they give Farke time to implement his tried and tested methods. 

Hopefully they get restless and impatient and sack him 🙂

[Danke bitte 967]

34 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

Hopefully they get restless and impatient and sack him 🙂

I hate to be like that, but I agree :  D

[Feedthewolf 4,871]

No less a source than Fabrizio Romano reporting that Piroe to Leeds is going to be done by tomorrow. That should finally put this Sargent nonsense to bed.

 

[jaberry2 556]

5 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

No less a source than Fabrizio Romano reporting that Piroe to Leeds is going to be done by tomorrow. That should finally put this Sargent nonsense to bed.

 

Praise the lord.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

2 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

Praise the lord.

Hallelujah

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

17 hours ago, horsefly said:

Time and again we hear from new signings how they were blown away by the top level training facilities at the club. No one should underestimate the importance of Webber spending the money he has on this aspect of the club.

Webber definitely sorted out the training facilities and hopeful his replacement will be better at player recruitment.

[hogesar 9,736]

12 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Webber definitely sorted out the training facilities and hopeful his replacement will be better at player recruitment.

You're likely to be disappointed unless you know of any Sporting Directors under a similar financial constraint who've consistently made better signings over a similar period?

[shefcanary 2,446]

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by shefcanary
Duplicate of post above! Late again.

[Essjayess 307]

Quite possible Leeds did have a list with Sarge and Piroe on it, 1 or 2 others to maybe...but thought...ok the Swansea guy  is what we want, lets find a media  rag,  tell them weve a list of interested and throw them the Norwich guy as  a name...the DF connection ensuring lots of  fan waffle...then we can quietly dive in and get the Swansea guy in as our striker.

If that is how it went then as usual it worked pretty well with the waffle.

[RobJames 890]

17 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

If that is how it went then as usual it worked pretty well with the waffle.

Only as something that had the usually numpties jumping about. I very much doubt it is a policy of any pro club, though.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

4 hours ago, hogesar said:

You're likely to be disappointed unless you know of any Sporting Directors under a similar financial constraint who've consistently made better signings over a similar period?

i can not believe how i have changed but you are right 

one bad summer but other than that very solid 

also looks like 2 out of 3 managers he brought here will be good so that is pretty impressive also 

[hogesar 9,736]

21 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

i can not believe how i have changed but you are right 

one bad summer but other than that very solid 

also looks like 2 out of 3 managers he brought here will be good so that is pretty impressive also 

We know Webber can be a bit of a tw*t (most people in high level positions who are good at it generally are although some are better at hiding it).

You've said it before - so far his glaring weakness has been an inability to spend bigger money well. We had one season with £50m to spend and he got it wrong.

Hes recovered some of that and I don't think that's by accident - I think he believed that the likes of Rashica and Sargent would maintain some value. 

We'll never know if he can build a Premier league ready squad until we give him a competitive Premier league budget which seems to be increasing every year!

[A Load of Squit 5,215]

More than £10m!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66602738

Leeds United have signed striker Joel Piroe on a four-year deal for a fee of more than £10m from Swansea City.

[RobJames 890]

37 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

More than £10m!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66602738

Leeds United have signed striker Joel Piroe on a four-year deal for a fee of more than £10m from Swansea City.

So young Josh is free to pursue his career with us.

A case of..... Carry on Sargeant 😜

Edited August 24, 2023 by RobJames

[East Rider 551]

I'll be up in Uddersfield cheering him on as our No 9

[chicken 2,642]

On 24/08/2023 at 18:36, hogesar said:

We know Webber can be a bit of a tw*t (most people in high level positions who are good at it generally are although some are better at hiding it).

You've said it before - so far his glaring weakness has been an inability to spend bigger money well. We had one season with £50m to spend and he got it wrong.

Hes recovered some of that and I don't think that's by accident - I think he believed that the likes of Rashica and Sargent would maintain some value. 

We'll never know if he can build a Premier league ready squad until we give him a competitive Premier league budget which seems to be increasing every year!

Here's the thing, we have always spent big money poorly - at least, so it seems on the outcomes.

I do wonder if some of that is partly due to lower fees being far easier to turn into profit and therefore seen as good business?

If you take the time since promotion under Lambert to now, for example. We often think of Lambert and consider the amount of success, though what comes with that were a good deal of players who perhaps weren't despite what we achieved with them. However, because of the low cost very few folks cared about the rest.

Then you look at Hughton - Hooper at £5m and Wolfswinkel at £7.5m on the face of it, were complete wastes of money. Sure, there is an argument to suggest Wolfy was brought into the wrong set up and didn't match what our requirements were. So perhaps even more of a poor signing if you consider it like that. Hooper though, was pretty poor. Underlined by both Grabban (£3m) and Jerome (£1.5m) being better players for less money.

Then there is the likes of Naismith who not only cost a big fee but the club also stepped away and gave him a contract without a relegation clause in terms of wages. I believe the same was said of Klose and Pinto. The latter costing far less in fees.

I still think that bar Brady, Alex Neil was the worst manager we have had for signings. I don't feel many, if any, drastically improved our squad. Not only that, he sold Johnson and replaced him with... Mulumbu... 

Come to think of it, if looking at outlay alone... Naismith £8m, Klose - £7.5m, Pinto - £3-4m, Brady - £7m, Matt Jarvis - £2.5m, Dorrans - £3m, Godfrey - £2.5m, loans of Wisdom, Mbokani and Bamford. Proportionally, that was also a big spend considering the biggest sale was Johnson at £7m. 

I think that is a hell of a lot worse if you ask me. Wisdom, Bamford, Jarvis, Dorrans, Mulumbu, Kean - none added anything to the team. Godfrey didn't that season but was one for the future so we can ignore that to a degree. Not that Alex Neil wanted to use him ever. Naismith looked good for a game or two, Klose looked good for a game then got injured. Pinto - debatable, though fans seem to like him.

[Nuff Said 5,175]

23 minutes ago, chicken said:

Here's the thing, we have always spent big money poorly - at least, so it seems on the outcomes.

I do wonder if some of that is partly due to lower fees being far easier to turn into profit and therefore seen as good business?

If you take the time since promotion under Lambert to now, for example. We often think of Lambert and consider the amount of success, though what comes with that were a good deal of players who perhaps weren't despite what we achieved with them. However, because of the low cost very few folks cared about the rest.

Then you look at Hughton - Hooper at £5m and Wolfswinkel at £7.5m on the face of it, were complete wastes of money. Sure, there is an argument to suggest Wolfy was brought into the wrong set up and didn't match what our requirements were. So perhaps even more of a poor signing if you consider it like that. Hooper though, was pretty poor. Underlined by both Grabban (£3m) and Jerome (£1.5m) being better players for less money.

Then there is the likes of Naismith who not only cost a big fee but the club also stepped away and gave him a contract without a relegation clause in terms of wages. I believe the same was said of Klose and Pinto. The latter costing far less in fees.

I still think that bar Brady, Alex Neil was the worst manager we have had for signings. I don't feel many, if any, drastically improved our squad. Not only that, he sold Johnson and replaced him with... Mulumbu... 

Come to think of it, if looking at outlay alone... Naismith £8m, Klose - £7.5m, Pinto - £3-4m, Brady - £7m, Matt Jarvis - £2.5m, Dorrans - £3m, Godfrey - £2.5m, loans of Wisdom, Mbokani and Bamford. Proportionally, that was also a big spend considering the biggest sale was Johnson at £7m. 

I think that is a hell of a lot worse if you ask me. Wisdom, Bamford, Jarvis, Dorrans, Mulumbu, Kean - none added anything to the team. Godfrey didn't that season but was one for the future so we can ignore that to a degree. Not that Alex Neil wanted to use him ever. Naismith looked good for a game or two, Klose looked good for a game then got injured. Pinto - debatable, though fans seem to like him.

Bit harsh on Pinto and definitely on Klose IMHO.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,183]

28 minutes ago, chicken said:

Come to think of it, if looking at outlay alone... Naismith £8m, Klose - £7.5m, Pinto - £3-4m, Brady - £7m, Matt Jarvis - £2.5m, Dorrans - £3m, Godfrey - £2.5m, loans of Wisdom, Mbokani and Bamford. Proportionally, that was also a big spend considering the biggest sale was Johnson at £7m. 

Well ............................ er............................... no

I'll whisper it - WE SOLD GODFREY FOR £25 MILLION! 

I'm editing this - (leaving my original post in).

I think I misunderstood your point. You weren't talking about what we sold them for later, but what happened during the time Neill was here. Apologies. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Thirsty Lizard

[chicken 2,642]

14 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Bit harsh on Pinto and definitely on Klose IMHO.

Not really. Pinto was never a premier league fullback, I like the chap and his work rate, but he was surpassed by a very young Aarons. Not sure I would put him up there in our top five right backs in my life time. Championship wise he was ok. But we signed him for the premier league - pretty sure we could have done better considering the money spent.

As for Klose, again, love the guy, great character... but did he really ever give us £7.5m on the pitch? A good player, yes, but rarely a full season in him. Wasn't particularly quick. Good on the ball. Again, I would argue that Zimmermann looked better and he'd almost given up football to be a teacher. I just don't think we ever saw the value on the pitch for what we paid for him. Not only that, he did absolutely nothing that season bar one performance and then get injured.

I still think that we utterly spaffed money up the wall that season bar Brady. I see it as worse as the latest injection of money hadn't quite gotten silly at that point. Selling Johnson made no sense. None of those players really made an impact and I stand by that. 

If you take player sales into account, what are we looking at comparatively? Webber £20m-ish? Alex Neil, £26m+ loans?

[chicken 2,642]

23 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Well ............................ er............................... no

I'll whisper it - WE SOLD GODFREY FOR £25 MILLION! 

I'm editing this - (leaving my original post in).

I think I misunderstood your point. You weren't talking about what we sold them for later, but what happened during the time Neill was here. Apologies. 

Exactly.

I think you have to separate the two. A good number of people have tried to say that Webber and head coaches that he has appointed have nothing to do with the likes of Godfrey and Maddison as those players were already at the club when they arrived so they cannot be assigned any credit for their rise etc.

For me it's absolute rubbish.

Who do we give credit to for Hoolahan? Did Roeder make him the player he was under Lambert? Or was it Lambert who saw his true value to a side and built it around the combination of him and Holt? Incidentally, Holt wasn't signed by Lambert either... 

Godfrey, Aarons, Lewis, Cantwell and Maddison were all at the club before Webber's arrival. I think it is fair to say that the principles that Webber has instilled into our self-sustaining model has meant that those players suddenly had a much better route through to first team football. Neil Adams coming in as the loan ranger no doubt helped too as part of that.

For me, it is the development of those young players when they hit an age where they can be brought into our first team or loaned out to get valuable experience that further develops them, that is vital. I think people all too-often downplay how, for example, Farke's decision to move Godfrey to CB turned him into a £25m player. Or the decision to put Aarons straight into the first team picture, then Lewis.

Alex Neil didn't start Maddison once, in fact, he didn't play at all for us until Neil had left. Godfrey was not dissimilar. I'm not sure how much Neil even believed in younger players coming through the ranks. Considering both of those cost us millions in outlay and both had played a decent number of games already, you'd have thought they may have been considered a little more highly. 

[Mr Angry 1,571]

8 hours ago, chicken said:

For me, it is the development of those young players when they hit an age where they can be brought into our first team or loaned out to get valuable experience that further develops them, that is vital. I think people all too-often downplay how, for example, Farke's decision to move Godfrey to CB turned him into a £25m player. Or the decision to put Aarons straight into the first team picture, then Lewis.

This was a very poor decision, he would have been a £50m player if he’d left him as a CDM ; - )

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

On 24/08/2023 at 18:36, hogesar said:

We know Webber can be a bit of a tw*t (most people in high level positions who are good at it generally are although some are better at hiding it).

You've said it before - so far his glaring weakness has been an inability to spend bigger money well. We had one season with £50m to spend and he got it wrong.

Hes recovered some of that and I don't think that's by accident - I think he believed that the likes of Rashica and Sargent would maintain some value. 

We'll never know if he can build a Premier league ready squad until we give him a competitive Premier league budget which seems to be increasing every year!

I think that’s unfair. He hasn’t struggled to spend big. He’s succeeded in recruiting in the champs where our budget is amongst the best. He failed when given a poor budget for the prem- the gulf is the issue. Our ‘big spend’ at that level really isn’t much and we don’t have the wages to match, 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,153]

Others have alluded to it before but it's because when we spend 'big' by our standards it's on players who are all known to similar sized clubs who have more money than us and the reason they're on the cheap side for PL signings is because they've been scouted and deemed not good enough for our competitors. 

I think we're honestly better off carrying on trying to sign cheaper gambles whenever we reach the PL and trying to be more creative. Go for flawed players with potential who suit the system and strong characters who want to play for us over much more expensive players who are only 5-10% better and probably feel like we owe them something for coming here. Our best PL season in my lifetime was our PL season with Lambert where we spent 1-3m on players from lower leagues but they were all good characters who fit the managers way of playing, I know you can't do that anymore as L1 players now cost much more but it's just an example. 

If we go up this year, try to sign the same type of players we would if we were in the Championship except use the extra financial strength to get our top, first choice targets. 

[hogesar 9,736]

53 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I think that’s unfair. He hasn’t struggled to spend big. He’s succeeded in recruiting in the champs where our budget is amongst the best. He failed when given a poor budget for the prem- the gulf is the issue. Our ‘big spend’ at that level really isn’t much and we don’t have the wages to match, 

Our budget wasn't close to the best for the first title win, and we didn't spend much in our second one either really! Not when you look at the spends of other promoted sides around the same years - Bournemouth,  Leeds, Watford etc.