Mumba

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297]

Also the fact he seems to do well against Ipswich. They’re no doubt happy he won’t be playing for us now!

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

41 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Also the fact he seems to do well against Ipswich. They’re no doubt happy he won’t be playing for us now!

Anyone who scores against 1p5wich is in effect 'playing for us'.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,066]

11 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Not really, on the face of it selling a third choice defender who won’t play for £1m seems anything but.

I think he would play though. He was in the team of the year for the champions only one league down.last year and he's 20 years old. Madness IMO. We must be skint.

[Capt. Pants 4,277]

2 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

The fact he’s considered a third choice defender by Wagner and Webber is even worse than the sale itself.

But it’s ok, we’ve got £9 million Tzolis instead. And Placheta. And 5 years of Adam Idah. Joy of joys.

And Onel Hernandez who's done relatively fcuk all since 2018/19 and been binned out on loan twice. 

I've mixed feelings about Mumba but even moreso over the 'dross' we have left in wide positions.

[Chelm Canary 404]

This sale is a total disgrace.

[Branston Pickle 3,689]

32 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

I think he would play though. He was in the team of the year for the champions only one league down.last year and he's 20 years old. Madness IMO. We must be skint.

Well, obviously not.  He was clearly not considered likely to play for us.  

Are you clamouring for us to sign any of the other L1 ‘team of the season’ and/or do you even know who any of them are?

There’s a massive gulf between L1 and Champs, which is why we get sides yo-yoing as much between these levels as they do between Champs and PL. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

13 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

Yes, there are two ifs in my post, but they are both related to Wagner and I think they are far from unlikely. 1) If he is a dud 2) If we get off to a bad start. The end of last season suggests he may well be a dud and that we may well get off to a bad start. 

But you have totally ignored the bigger point. Our long-term future is being decided by a SD who tells us he is going to leave soon and a HC who is under pressure and who plays a very specific style and is recruiting players for that style and, even more importantly, disposing of players who don't fit that style.

If Wagner is a dud, we are going to be a total mess.

 

And you used an if again. I have no idea how this season will pan out. And neither have you. At the moment we hav to rely on and trust that DW knows what he wants and is trying to achieve that. If he is wrong then that will be the time to criticise him. Not now.

Nobody in their right mind will sell a player if he is as good as you seem to think Mumba is. But he has been training with us and been involved in friendlies. Prior to that he had some cameos in that ill fated EPL season but has been out on loan since. 

Believing if you are big enough you are old enough and vice versa, then his history with us and Sunderland who loaned him out, doesn't point to someone who is going to figure in our plans. And the club have taken the decision to cash in on him. A million pounds doesn't seem to indicate a top player to me.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

15 hours ago, Petriix said:

This is incredibly disappointing for a number of reasons but the biggest issue is that it's yet another step in our disastrous transition away from skilful/technical towards physical ('pragmatic') football. It's Webber continuing to chase his losses two seasons after he gambled his house on red and blew the lot.

The hope that many of us retain for the medium term is entirely based on bringing through exciting young players like Mumba. Selling him removes that hope and leaves us with the stark reality of a squad bereft of ability and confidence. Where does our future lie if we're going to let players like this go?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Plymouth have a far better season than us. We seem to be rapidly becoming a basket case of a club. I've been calling for patience but we need something to be positive about. As others have said, we should be signing players like this, not selling them. 

Hard to disagree, I’ve not read all the way through this thread but finding it hard to be positive about it at all.

I think the most depressing thing for me is not necessarily the move away from technical players you mention, but the move away from selling ready made players at the peak of their value, moving further and further up our player development conveyor belt. It clearly shows just how far our model has dropped off in the past couple of seasons. We are becoming more and more desperate.

In the past 5 or 6 years we’ve got great value from players like the Murphy twins, Maddison, Godfrey, Lewis and Buendia (that one still makes me sad mind), most of whom probably aren’t worth close to as much as we got for them back then, and for others like Maddison it was obvious he had outgrown the club completely so we did what was best for all parties and what was needed for us at the time as well in terms of funding a rebuild. We ended up better for it.

I would ask if selling Mumba now is really getting the best value for him and the best for the club’s development too? What would we have said if we’d sold Maddison after his loan to Aberdeen for maybe a couple of £mil profit? 

It’s not even close to the right time for Muma IMO, and even if he didn’t kick on, what is the risk here? The fee of £1 million does so little in terms of bolstering our finances. We’re also seeing similar with Aarons and Omobamidele and we’re likely going to end up accepting fees of close to 50% of what their value has been in the past couple of seasons. Turning down £25 mil for Omobamidele in January, good one Webber! If that offer was true or not (it surely wasn’t he was bang out of form last season) it’s still going to be egg on Webber’s face if we accept a much lower one this season. 

The Mumba sale at this moment in time feels like we’re a contestant on Deal or no deal accepting an offer of like £1,000 after the first round of box opening, when there’s still many good potential prizes out there! Yes we’ve banked a small amount of income, but what can we do with it really, and what have we potentially missed out on as a result? 

Best case scenario - he could establish himself here, and for a player of his age with his technical ability and overall versatility on both wings, that could easily see a dramatic rise in his value as well as adding something to the team we pretty desperately need. 

Worst case scenario - he struggles, in which case we would probably still be able to get a similar fee to what we are now in January or at the end of the season, maybe a few £100k less. I guess he could also have a career ending injury but I don’t really think that should be considered in our decision making…

To me with the risk and reward it’s a no brainer to keep him in the team. There’s little to no risk in keeping him. And I’m sure that even if the posters sticking up for the transfer now were offered this deal a week ago they’d all have opted for ‘let’s see what he can do this season’ rather than the paltry sum we are getting now.

I don’t care that we may have given him this chance and it just didn’t work out for us or him, but I do care that we now aren’t giving ourselves a chance to ever find out. For £1 million!

If we have good incomings lined up to address our lack of depth at right back and give some options on the wing as well, then I guess fair enough, but for what outlay would all of that need to be? And I’d still probably be in the camp of wishing we’d kept him around the squad or, if he doesn’t have a place, loaning him out again and looking to extend his contract for another season or two.

Maybe he just really wanted to leave, but that brings with it another set of pretty depressing thoughts too…

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,898]

On the face of it, a curious decision. A young, exciting player that many expected much from. A very successful loan spell during the previous season, leading to multiple awards. Comments from the manager that he is part of his plans for the new season. Surely exactly the kind of attacking threat we need to instill some energy in our team (he's a left sided attacker for me, not a full back)?

However. We clearly need money in, to spend money out. 4 free transfers demonstrate this as well as Anthony Richen's comments last season on player trading. By now, I think most of us expected one of Max, Rashica or Omo to be gone...but for whatever reason, it's not happening. That then holds up to a certain degree the acquisition of players we want to buy, as some money will always be needed up front. With 4 left sided attackers (Argos, the Greek boy blunder, the Polish road runner and Mumba) we seem well stocked in that area (!). So if the club gets a decent bid for one of them, well then off you trot.

From my perspective - a real shame as after an excellent season at Plymouth, I would have liked to see what the lad could have done for us. I wish him well.

OTBC

Edited July 22, 2023 by Disco Dales Jockstrap

[horsefly 4,315]

I have vague memories of him saying relatively recently that after his season at Plymouth he wanted to be on the pitch in the starting eleven on a regular basis (open to confirmation or correction on that). From what I saw of him in the friendlies there was no way he would be starting ahead of Stacey, Giannoulis, or McCallum. So perhaps it was him that pressed the case for a move from the club. Either way there have been plenty of players who have shown considerable promise but failed to realise that potential sufficiently to merit retention. How many of the FA youth cup winning squad currently ply their trade in the top 2 tiers of football? Personally, I doubt £1m would have been enough to prize him away from the club if they truly thought he was likely to turn into a nailed-on regular starter, like Aarons or Omo. Time will tell if he develops to become a top player (hopefully he does).

[Petriix 2,853]

3 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Are you clamouring for us to sign any of the other L1 ‘team of the season’ and/or do you even know who any of them are?

Yes, it's fairly obvious that a club of our stature should be signing and developing the best young players from the leagues below us. Remind me again where we signed Maddison, Godfrey and Aarons from. It's exactly what we've done so successfully over the last decade. 

[S_81 861]

4 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

I think he would play though. He was in the team of the year for the champions only one league down.last year and he's 20 years old. Madness IMO. We must be skint.

People keep saying he wouldn’t play. But that isn’t the same as he shouldn’t play. Wagner is out of his mind. 

[horsefly 4,315]

3 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Yes, it's fairly obvious that a club of our stature should be signing and developing the best young players from the leagues below us. Remind me again where we signed Maddison, Godfrey and Aarons from. It's exactly what we've done so successfully over the last decade. 

Indeed! And over the years we have signed a whole host of other promising youngsters who we later released or sold on for very little because we didn't believe they would develop to a sufficient level. I can't remember many cases where such youngsters have gone on to prove the club wrong in their judgement. I guess the club decided that £1m matched the level they considered Mumba to be likely to reach. Frankly that isn't the level to which a promotion aspiring club should be aiming, and it is perhaps instructive that no such club has come in with an offer to beat Plymouth.

[hogesar 9,745]

4 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

I think he would play though. He was in the team of the year for the champions only one league down.last year and he's 20 years old. Madness IMO. We must be skint.

So was Jon Otsemobor (in league one team of the year) when we signed him. League One ability doesn't always, in fact often doesn't, translate a league higher.

This is nothing to do with being skint, the money we've got for him is a drop in the ocean.

Edited July 22, 2023 by hogesar

[horsefly 4,315]

7 minutes ago, S_81 said:

People keep saying he wouldn’t play. But that isn’t the same as he shouldn’t play. Wagner is out of his mind. 

The player I saw getting bullied off the ball by Kings Lynn is not a player I would consider as someone who should play.

[S_81 861]

The club defenders are still out in force on this thread, grifting hard in hope of their hero Stu seeing them. Pathetic. 

[S_81 861]

Just now, horsefly said:

The player I saw getting bullied off the ball by Kings Lynn is not a player I would consider as someone who should play.

Yeah just discount last season and his clear attacking threat down the wing. Because you watched him for a brief while at Lynn. 

[hogesar 9,745]

2 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Yeah just discount last season and his clear attacking threat down the wing. Because you watched him for a brief while at Lynn. 

How many 90 minute matches of Plymouth did you watch? It must have been 20 at least to have such a strong view?

4 minutes ago, S_81 said:

The club defenders are still out in force on this thread, grifting hard in hope of their hero Stu seeing them. Pathetic. 

This is you in a nutshell again, unable to debate and have to resort to your typical childish level of intellect. Maybe it's just your level, I don't know.

I haven't actually seen anyone defend still, just give alternative opinions as to why we sold. For me, unlike you, of whom Plymouth are clearly a second team, I've not seen enough of Mumba. I've not watched 1800 minutes of him like you. So I have no idea if he's good enough or not.

I see the Plymouth fans are generally delighted but there's a decent amount who are concerned he's going to be a complete liability at this level defensively, and hopes they build a team around him to cope with that.

I'm not sure he's that good for us to build a whole team around or change our formation for. And it appears the rest of the division agrees with that since they weren't willing to poach him for £1.5m.

But again. Maybe the rest of the league haven't watched Plymouth as much as you?

[Indy 3,317]

I do find it funny how the two sides always split with their opinions, those who won’t have a bad word said about the current regime and those not happy with the current regime!

For my two pence worth I agree with Petriix, and those who keep saying he’s not going to get into this team! Really, most of our wingers have been loaned out and not solidified a starting place in this team, we have three wingers in Tzolis, Placheta & Hernandez who really aren’t any better than Mumba, Rowe coming back from an injury hit season. I find it strange a player with his pace, his performance last season is written off so quickly,.

put it this way, had Mumba been a Plymouth player and we were buying him for a million from them after last season’s performance those writing his sale off would be all over the signing going on just how brilliant a signing it would be!

Edited July 22, 2023 by Indy

[S_81 861]

11 minutes ago, hogesar said:

How many 90 minute matches of Plymouth did you watch? It must have been 20 at least to have such a strong view?

This is you in a nutshell again, unable to debate and have to resort to your typical childish level of intellect. Maybe it's just your level, I don't know.

I haven't actually seen anyone defend still, just give alternative opinions as to why we sold. For me, unlike you, of whom Plymouth are clearly a second team, I've not seen enough of Mumba. I've not watched 1800 minutes of him like you. So I have no idea if he's good enough or not.

I see the Plymouth fans are generally delighted but there's a decent amount who are concerned he's going to be a complete liability at this level defensively, and hopes they build a team around him to cope with that.

I'm not sure he's that good for us to build a whole team around or change our formation for. And it appears the rest of the division agrees with that since they weren't willing to poach him for £1.5m.

But again. Maybe the rest of the league haven't watched Plymouth as much as you?

Funny how you haven’t seen anyone defend the sale and yet here you are again doing your utmost to justify it. Anyone would be forgiven for thinking you’re called Mr Webber, or work for the club. 

[horsefly 4,315]

15 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Yeah just discount last season and his clear attacking threat down the wing. Because you watched him for a brief while at Lynn. 

Not at all. He clearly had a good season at league one level. The club will have analysed each one of those games, and will have watched him closely in training, and in the friendlies. I watched all the friendlies and insofar as they are at least in part auditions for a starting place I'm afraid he failed miserably. He looked ok going forward but an absolute liability defensively. Time will tell whether he is consistent Championship level quality. Personally I hope he is very successful as he seems a very decent and dedicated young man. 

[hogesar 9,745]

1 minute ago, S_81 said:

Funny how you haven’t seen anyone defend the sale and yet here you are again doing your utmost to justify it. Anyone would be forgiven for thinking you’re called Mr Webber, or work for the club. 

All I've done is list some facts.

1) I don't know if he's good enough because I've not watched him enough (praise to you for taking the time to watch 20 + Plymouth matches again).

2) No other club in the league felt the need to come in for Mumba for a higher fee.

The rest is all conjecture.

As for Webber, having met him a few times now, he's been pleasant every time and clearly has exceptional football knowledge. 10 minutes discussing football with him and you'd know. Again, I go by my own personal experiences rather than what angry old men on a forum say. 🙂 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,857]

35 minutes ago, hogesar said:

So was Jon Otsemobor (in league one team of the year) when we signed him. League One ability doesn't always, in fact often doesn't, translate a league higher.

This is nothing to do with being skint, the money we've got for him is a drop in the ocean.

Otsemobor was in mid-20s though, and in what turned out to be the peak of his career. 

Mumba is 21 and was also named League One Young Player of the Year.

Considering that we're struggling for decent options on the wing, I find it strange that not only are we not keeping him, but also selling for a seemingly low fee.

Totally agree with your comment that it's a drop in the ocean, which makes it even more peculiar. His wages must've been significantly lower than Placheta and Tzolis, so it clearly wasn't motivated by money. 

 

19 minutes ago, Indy said:

put it this way, had Mumba been a Plymouth player and we were buying him for a million from them after last season’s performance those writing his sale off would be all over the signing going on just how brilliant a signing it would be!

Agreed.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

[S_81 861]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

All I've done is list some facts.

1) I don't know if he's good enough because I've not watched him enough (praise to you for taking the time to watch 20 + Plymouth matches again).

2) No other club in the league felt the need to come in for Mumba for a higher fee.

The rest is all conjecture.

As for Webber, having met him a few times now, he's been pleasant every time and clearly has exceptional football knowledge. 10 minutes discussing football with him and you'd know. Again, I go by my own personal experiences rather than what angry old men on a forum say. 🙂 

Aw maybe he’ll see your post and your relentless defence of one of our recent worst pieces of business and he’ll thank you. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,857]

4 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Not at all. He clearly had a good season at league one level. The club will have analysed each one of those games, and will have watched him closely in training, and in the friendlies. I watched all the friendlies and insofar as they are at least in part auditions for a starting place I'm afraid he failed miserably. He looked ok going forward but an absolute liability defensively. Time will tell whether he is consistent Championship level quality. Personally I hope he is very successful as he seems a very decent and dedicated young man. 

That's why so many people are/were suggesting that he should play on the wing for us, rather than at full back. He has played very, very little football in his career at full back, just a few fleeting appearances for us, probably less than 100 minutes. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

7 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Funny how you haven’t seen anyone defend the sale and yet here you are again doing your utmost to justify it. Anyone would be forgiven for thinking you’re called Mr Webber, or work for the club. 

Plenty, including me, are reasoning about the sale. What it comes down to is that a decision has been made about players in his position at the club. And others have been preferred over him.

You are just ranting about someone being sold who you may never have seen playing for Norwich. He only played five times for us so how are you basing your opinion? On playing for another club.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

That's why so many people are/were suggesting that he should play on the wing for us, rather than at full back. He has played very, very little football in his career at full back, just a few fleeting appearances for us, probably less than 100 minutes. 

Just maybe, DW decided we had better players to play on the wing. We have seven of them.

[norfolkngood 1,088]

Mumba must have more potential than Placheta & Hernandez who offer very little 

[horsefly 4,315]

1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

That's why so many people are/were suggesting that he should play on the wing for us, rather than at full back. He has played very, very little football in his career at full back, just a few fleeting appearances for us, probably less than 100 minutes. 

I find it hard to believe that the club hadn't considered that possibility in making their judgement. I suspect they consider Springett and Rowe to be ahead of him as wingers. 

[hogesar 9,745]

5 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Aw maybe he’ll see your post and your relentless defence of one of our recent worst pieces of business and he’ll thank you. 

He's probably too busy laughing at your posts to thank me for anything. Calling something our "recent worst piece of business" for a player you've not even watched play 😅😅😅

Well, apart from those 20 Plymouth matches I keep mentioning....