Mumba

[S_81 872]

1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:

There's no point arguing any more - Mumba has gone. We just have to wait to see what happens.

But if he turns out to be very good, we have to remember all of the suckers-up to Wagner and Webber and the club, because as sure as hell they will be doing all they can to rewrite history and pretend they weren't in favour of this sale.

Buh gets a lot of flak on this site but at least he nails his colours to the mast - he doesn't change with the direction of the wind.

I’ll happily hold my hands up and say I was wrong and that one mil was a great piece of business. But you can guarantee that most of those Webber kiss-ar5e5 in this thread will be saying that they always said he should have been retained. 

[hogesar 9,760]

13 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

'The polar opposite of drying up'... that would surely mean the academy has been continuously improving over the past few seasons and is now in a much better position now than ever before? Come on now! I'm not even sure if you believe what you're writing sometimes!

I'm not saying we don't have any prospects, clearly we do, but I think its pretty fair to say that we peaked during Farke's second season when we had Aarons, Godfrey, Cantwell, Lewis all as academy players coming through to the first team, and we've struggled to recreate that success since. Alright we still have Gibbs, Idah, Aarons and Omobamidele in and around the first team but the levels individually and on the whole have dropped off so much. And our seemingly next brightest academy prospect gets sold for £1 million. That is a far cry from 3-4 years ago. 

You also mention that Fisher is highly rated and expected around the first team, but that's exactly what Wagner said about Mumba a month ago and now he's left!

I'll believe it when it happens, and I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong and for some of these players to come in and raise the bar of the first team, and reverse the downwards trend the club is very clearly on! But even if that does eventually happen, I don't think we need to plug our ears pretend like there hasn't been a drop off in the academy's successes over the past couple of seasons. Or even worse, pretend like its thriving more than ever before...

Well, no academy in the world produces an Aarons, Godfrey, Cantwell, and Lewis for the first team every season. And I mean no academy.

If that's your measuring stick then no wonder we are at very different viewpoints on this.

Godfrey and Cantwell had already gone out and had their loan spells before Farke even got properly involved with them. You're comparing a Mumba with a Godfrey - well Godfrey had played at Championship and then Premier League level before he was sold. Mumba has only played at League One level. We've still made a 300% profit on the player. 

 

[S_81 872]

1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

Let’s see some actual proof of this. Or shut the **** up?

What you will find if you look is that there are posters who will look for the positive in news and events. This is very different from “blindly cheering”. I’m afraid if you can’t see the difference, you’re either thick or looking for a fight.

Oh there’s plenty of evidence on this forum of the same crowd diving on posters giving a bit of criticism about decisions taken by the club’s hierarchy. They’re like moronic MPs towing a party line. Doesn’t take much reading to spot the same culprits. 

[hogesar 9,760]

2 minutes ago, S_81 said:

I’ll happily hold my hands up and say I was wrong and that one mil was a great piece of business. But you can guarantee that most of those Webber kiss-ar5e5 in this thread will be saying that they always said he should have been retained. 

Then they'd hardly be Webber kiss-ar*es would they, you absolute f*cking genius. 

[S_81 872]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Then they'd hardly be Webber kiss-ar*es would they, you absolute f*cking genius. 

The point is - that Webber will likely be gone when it’s proven to the loyalists that Mumba for 1m has been a bad bit of business 

Edited July 24, 2023 by S_81

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

1 minute ago, S_81 said:

Oh there’s plenty of evidence on this forum of the same crowd diving on posters giving a bit of criticism about decisions taken by the club’s hierarchy. They’re like moronic MPs towing a party line. Doesn’t take much reading to spot the same culprits. 

So are you going to give the evidence then? It just say there’s loads and not give it? 

Mumba might turn out great, he might not. He will never be worth so much we will kick ourselves and certainly isn’t at this moment. Players are worth what someone will pay for them. If he becomes a world beater I’ll say ‘well I didn’t expect that’ and move on without having to mourn our loss. I’m not blindly backing the clubs hierarchy, I’m pretty much just assuming that he isn’t that big of a deal. 

You can try and make conflict/us vs them all you like, you’re clearly of the weak-minded Twitter debate generation that have to sensationalise everything because they’re told that it’s either black or white and no grey. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

5 minutes ago, S_81 said:

The point is - that Webber will likely be gone when it’s proven to the loyalists that Mumba for 1m has been a bad bit of business 

You’re really using the term loyalists for a football club and an average player being sold. 

Demonstrates that sensationalism nicely 

[S_81 872]

Just now, SwearyCanary said:

So are you going to give the evidence then? It just say there’s loads and not give it? 

Mumba might turn out great, he might not. He will never be worth so much we will kick ourselves and certainly isn’t at this moment. Players are worth what someone will pay for them. If he becomes a world beater I’ll say ‘well I didn’t expect that’ and move on without having to mourn our loss. I’m not blindly backing the clubs hierarchy, I’m pretty much just assuming that he isn’t that big of a deal. 

You can try and make conflict/us vs them all you like, you’re clearly of the weak-minded Twitter debate generation that have to sensationalise everything because they’re told that it’s either black or white and no grey. 

If you don’t notice that there are a handful of posters who worship at the alter of Webber and his every decision, to the degree that they will challenge anyone criticising, then you’re not paying a lot of attention. 
 

[S_81 872]

1 minute ago, SwearyCanary said:

You’re really using the term loyalists for a football club and an average player being sold. 

Demonstrates that sensationalism nicely 

Loyalists of every decision taken by Webber 

[Nuff Said 5,178]

5 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Oh there’s plenty of evidence on this forum of the same crowd diving on posters giving a bit of criticism about decisions taken by the club’s hierarchy. They’re like moronic MPs towing a party line. Doesn’t take much reading to spot the same culprits. 

Plenty of evidence of people diving on posters criticising the club is not the same as “blindly cheering” the club, which is what you said in your post that I quoted.

So two thoughts:

1) since you haven’t posted any evidence of this blind cheering, is this tacit agreement that you were wrong?

2) do you think posters can’t disagree with criticism of the club? Agreed, it need to be done in a grown-up way, but then I haven’t seen anyone else calling other posters kiss-4rses on this thread so maybe you need to check your own posts before having a go at others?

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

2 minutes ago, S_81 said:

If you don’t notice that there are a handful of posters who worship at the alter of Webber and his every decision, to the degree that they will challenge anyone criticising, then you’re not paying a lot of attention. 
 

You’ve still not actually evidenced it though have you? 

I’m not a Webber fan. But I respect that some posters will view some of his decisions as good. I am yet to see one single poster ‘worship’ him. You just like trying to be all dramatic, which is odd to me but each to their own. I bet SW loves living rent free in your head

[S_81 872]

Just now, Nuff Said said:

Plenty of evidence of people diving on posters criticising the club is not the same as “blindly cheering” the club, which is what you said in your post that I quoted.

So two thoughts:

1) since you haven’t posted any evidence of this blind cheering, is this tacit agreement that you were wrong?

2) do you think posters can’t disagree with criticism of the club? Agreed, it need to be done in a grown-up way, but then I haven’t seen anyone else calling other posters kiss-4rses on this thread so maybe you need to check your own posts before having a go at others?

1) No

2) Yes, agreed. This forum exists to discuss all matters NCFC. I’m simply highlighting the fact that there are a collective of posters - who repeatedly challenge any criticism of decisions made. To the point that you would be forgiven for thinking they were club stooges. It’s that blatant. You’ve only got to be a viewer of this forum to see the same people doing the same thing day in day out. 
I’m not saying they’re not entitled to. I’m simply pointing it out. 
 

[Badger 2,412]

13 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Oh there’s plenty of evidence on this forum of the same crowd diving on posters giving a bit of criticism about decisions taken by the club’s hierarchy. They’re like moronic MPs towing a party line. Doesn’t take much reading to spot the same culprits. 

... as opposed to a "rebel" climate change denier perhaps -easily swayed by internet gossip from know-nothings!

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

Just now, S_81 said:

1) No

2) Yes, agreed. This forum exists to discuss all matters NCFC. I’m simply highlighting the fact that there are a collective of posters - who repeatedly challenge any criticism of decisions made. To the point that you would be forgiven for thinking they were club stooges. It’s that blatant. You’ve only got to be a viewer of this forum to see the same people doing the same thing day in day out. 
I’m not saying they’re not entitled to. I’m simply pointing it out. 
 

Name them then? 

[Branston Pickle 3,692]

10 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Then they'd hardly be Webber kiss-ar*es would they, you absolute f*cking genius. 

Common sense isn’t strong in some.

I hope Mumba has a very good career - some will say I told you so, that’s fair enough. Meanwhile, I’ll say precisely what I’m saying today: that he’d have not got a game with us this season as we don’t play a formation that suits him and there’s others ahead of him, so it made sense for him, and us.

The argument of keeping him on the offchance that we will sack our manager in a few months, and start playing with wingbacks, so we should therefore have kept him is just a strange one. 

[S_81 872]

1 minute ago, SwearyCanary said:

You’ve still not actually evidenced it though have you? 

I’m not a Webber fan. But I respect that some posters will view some of his decisions as good. I am yet to see one single poster ‘worship’ him. You just like trying to be all dramatic, which is odd to me but each to their own. I bet SW loves living rent free in your head

I don’t need to evidence it, it’s a matter of public record on this forum.  The same people, day in day out, challenging anyone challenging a club decision. Not masses of people. But a handful for sure. And so obviously so - that, as I’ve just said, you wonder whether they’re club stooges 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

1 minute ago, S_81 said:

I don’t need to evidence it, it’s a matter of public record on this forum.  The same people, day in day out, challenging anyone challenging a club decision. Not masses of people. But a handful for sure. And so obviously so - that, as I’ve just said, you wonder whether they’re club stooges 

Name them then. 

But while I’m at it, you’re so anti NCFC decisions that I imagine you’re a binner stooge. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by SwearyCanary

[S_81 872]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Common sense isn’t strong in some.

I hope Mumba has a very good career - some will say I told you so, that’s fair enough. Meanwhile, I’ll say precisely what I’m saying today: that he’d have not got a game with us this season as we don’t play a formation that suits him and there’s others ahead of him, so it made sense for him, and us.

The argument of keeping him on the offchance that we will sack our manager in a few months, and start playing with wingbacks, so we should therefore have kept him is just a strange one. 

Trent can’t play midfield, no? John Stones? Mumba is far better an attacking presence than a defensive one. Our left sided options are weak. Even more so with the unknown Sainz injured until later this year. Mumba should have been in the thinking for left wing - especially with Barnes and Sarge arguably being better in the air than on the deck. 

[S_81 872]

1 minute ago, SwearyCanary said:

Name them then. 

But while I’m at it, you’re so anti NCFC decisions that I imagine you’re a binner stooge. 

Yawn yawn, the old binner line. Anyone criticising the club must be a binner. Predictable

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Well, no academy in the world produces an Aarons, Godfrey, Cantwell, and Lewis for the first team every season. And I mean no academy.

If that's your measuring stick then no wonder we are at very different viewpoints on this.

Godfrey and Cantwell had already gone out and had their loan spells before Farke even got properly involved with them. You're comparing a Mumba with a Godfrey - well Godfrey had played at Championship and then Premier League level before he was sold. Mumba has only played at League One level. We've still made a 300% profit on the player. 

 

Sorry - where did I say 'every season'? Far from. The fact is we've only had Omobamidele come through with the same kind of hype across the past 4-5 years. And even with him his form was really patchy last season and we now can't seem to shift him on. 

All I've been trying to say is that there has been a drop off. You said it is the 'polar opposite' of drying up, but are now saying that we can't expect to recreate those successes? Which is it?!

And on the Godfrey / Mumba comparison, why would I not compare the academy prospects? That's the whole point to show the drop off! Are there other players in the academy who would make a fairer comparison with Godfrey and Cantwell? There may well prove to be, but we haven't seen them just yet! And the one who appeared next in line to do it has now left. 

Also before Godfrey / Cantwell went on to do that in the champs and PL, with Norwich by the way, Godfrey was on loan at Shrewsbury town and Cantwell at Fortuna Sittard but we stuck with them! Both at clubs at a pretty similar level to Plymouth, if not lower. But now our best prospects aren't even seen as good enough for a proper go in the team, or to generate more than £1 mil.

Its just a drop off isn't it? It's okay, you probably won't go to hell if you acknowledged it too...

[S_81 872]

2 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Sorry - where did I say 'every season'? Far from. The fact is we've only had Omobamidele come through with the same kind of hype across the past 4-5 years. And even with him his form was really patchy last season and we now can't seem to shift him on. 

All I've been trying to say is that there has been a drop off. You said it is the 'polar opposite' of drying up, but are now saying that we can't expect to recreate those successes? Which is it?!

And on the Godfrey / Mumba comparison, why would I not compare the academy prospects? That's the whole point to show the drop off! Are there other players in the academy who would make a fairer comparison with Godfrey and Cantwell? There may well prove to be, but we haven't seen them just yet! And the one who appeared next in line to do it has now left. 

Also before Godfrey / Cantwell went on to do that in the champs and PL, with Norwich by the way, Godfrey was on loan at Shrewsbury town and Cantwell at Fortuna Sittard but we stuck with them! Both at clubs at a pretty similar level to Plymouth, if not lower. But now our best prospects aren't even seen as good enough for a proper go in the team, or to generate more than £1 mil.

Its just a drop off isn't it? It's okay, you probably won't go to hell if you acknowledged it too...

Agreed. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

1 minute ago, S_81 said:

Yawn yawn, the old binner line. Anyone criticising the club must be a binner. Predictable

Not naming them though are you? 

My binner comment was in jest. It’s just pointing out that having a binary ‘you’re a club stooge’ or ‘you’re a binner’ stance is laughably stupid. I have as much ‘evidence’ to call you a binner as you do for all your club stooge accusations. Neither is the case, you’re just a bit angry at the world 

[Branston Pickle 3,692]

1 minute ago, S_81 said:

Trent can’t play midfield, no? John Stones? Mumba is far better an attacking presence than a defensive one. Our left sided options are weak. Even more so with the unknown Sainz injured until later this year. Mumba should have been in the thinking for left wing - especially with Barnes and Sarge arguably being better in the air than on the deck. 

I didn’t realise we had signed Stones and Trent - those went under the radar!

Why don’t you just accept Mumba has gone? I think from the 30 posts on here we all get that you don’t agree with it.  Most will have been a bit surprised, probably a bit disappointed, but also accept that there is some sense in it.

[S_81 872]

Double posted in error 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by S_81

[S_81 872]

10 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I didn’t realise we had signed Stones and Trent - those went under the radar!

Why don’t you just accept Mumba has gone? I think from the 30 posts on here we all get that you don’t agree with it.  Most will have been a bit surprised, probably a bit disappointed, but also accept that there is some sense in it.

Your principle is Mumba played wing back for Plymouth, we don’t play wing backs, therefore he needed to go. It’s the same principle seemingly as Wagner was displaying since early summer. But it seems closed minded re skill set and adaptability. Hence examples re Trent and Stones  

[Nuff Said 5,178]

24 minutes ago, S_81 said:

I don’t need to evidence it, it’s a matter of public record on this forum.  The same people, day in day out, challenging anyone challenging a club decision. Not masses of people. But a handful for sure. And so obviously so - that, as I’ve just said, you wonder whether they’re club stooges 

You seem incapable of realising there is a difference between someone posting that maybe selling Mumba may have been the right decision, and insisting the club can do no wrong.

I may have missed them, but I don’t think I have seen any posts that fall into the second category (I think the closest I’ve seen is Lakey’s insistence that Daniel Farke actually was the Messiah, but that’s very different) so it’s not unreasonable to ask you to provide some evidence for your claims. Saying there’s plenty of posts is not good enough. So we have to conclude you can’t provide the proof of your claims and are wrong. 

[Branston Pickle 3,692]

10 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Your principle is Mumba played wing back for Plymouth, we don’t play wing backs, therefore he needed to go. It’s the same principle seemingly as Wagner was displaying since early summer. But it seems closed minded re skill set and adaptability. Hence examples re Trent and Stones  

Not at all - I imagine Wagner had a close look at him both during games for Plymouth, during our training sessions and in preseason games.  It is what they are for, after all.

If we are to make decisions on players, we have to go with the judgement of the manager/his coaching staff.  Sometimes you’ll think they’ve got it wrong, that’s life. 

[Mello Yello 2,303]

I'm very disappointed Mumba has gone to Plymouth....I was hoping to see him this coming season in yellow....There's a few players I thought would have been sent on loan, sold or shown the door before Bali....

 

[S_81 872]

9 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Not at all - I imagine Wagner had a close look at him both during games for Plymouth, during our training sessions and in preseason games.  It is what they are for, after all.

If we are to make decisions on players, we have to go with the judgement of the manager/his coaching staff.  Sometimes you’ll think they’ve got it wrong, that’s life. 

Wagner was quoted early summer as saying Bali would need to fit the full back role, in essence. The comments appeared closed minded. I hope you’re right, but it felt one dimensional commentary from him and he was rightly questioned by some fans at the time on here as such 

[Newtopia 519]

Well this thread has descended into some pointless drivel.  I completely get why the management team have sold Mumba, I am disappointed, but he does not fit into the pattern of play as a fullback, he is clearly well behind Stacey.  So we are better selling him for as much as we can get, than allowing his career to stagnate.

I personally think it is a shame, but the attack on the system of development is a bit ridiculous with Rowe, Aarons, Omobalidele, Idah, Gibbs, and McCallum in the first team squad.  I am also not getting into the Idah is awful, Aarons is not developing, and Rowe hasn’t done anything discussion as those comments are just personal perspective, and they are all a lot better than I was as a footballer.

Personally there is an issue with the gulf in player quality needed to play in the premiership compared to the players our academy are developing, but that is more to do with the ratcheting up of quality in the premiership and prices of those players.  Our best players are worth 10M to 20M.  EPL starters are a lot more than that, and for squad players they pay £30M. At best our academy might pay for an EPL left back’s right foot, that doesn’t mean they are doing a bad job.