Godfrey leaving Everton

[Worthy Nigelton 1,062]

5 hours ago, Barham Blitz said:

"Real Madrid manager Ancelotti - the man who signed Godfrey as Everton boss in 2020 - believes the defender’s pace is his strongest attribute. Speaking to the Liverpool Echo last year, he said: "I think the best quality that Ben Godfrey has is the speed. He is really fast and really aggressive with or without the ball. He's fast, intelligent and it's difficult to find him out of position.”

That Carlo Ancelotti - what does he know eh ?!

I think Godfrey still has potential as a centre-back but like Gary Neville is just a shade too short to be dominant in the air.  His recovery pace and aggression would make him ideal in a back three (or partnering someone like Duffy for example.)

People forget that he only had maybe two full senior seasons at centre-back, one of which was in a very dominant Championship side and the other of which was our defensive car crash of a first Premiership season under Farke where we went through about a half a dozen centre-backs alongside him due to injury, half of them converted from other positions.  It takes a fair bit of experience to become a good central defender, and I'm not sure he has had that yet given that he has had to fill in at full back a fair bit at Everton. 

Not a Dyche defender so not surprised to seem him moved on - I'd have him back like a shot but there is no hope of our being able to afford him. 

Ferguson signed Djemba Djemba etc etc. This is a lazy argument.

The teams he's played in have all struggled at PL level and conceded loads. Four PL seasons and he has one bottom of the table, one fifth bottom and one fourth bottom. He's not good enough to play at the highest level.

He gets moved out to full back because he's not good enough at centre half and his athleticism means he can do a job there and his lack of intelligence is less obvious. Problem is he isn't skillful enough to play at full back either. He's a (very good) Championship centre half, which is not to be sniffed at. But a PL player he is not, and never will be.

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Worthy Nigelton

[Duncan Edwards 2,261]

2 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Ferguson signed Djemba Djemba etc etc. This is a lazy argument.

The teams he's played in have all struggled at PL level and conceded loads. Four PL seasons and he has one bottom of the table, one fifth bottom and one fourth bottom. He's not good enough to play at the highest level.

He gets moved out to full back because he's not good enough at centre half and his athleticism means he can do a job there and his lack of intelligence is less obvious. Problem is he isn't skillful enough to play at full back either. He's a (very good) Championship centre half, which is not to be sniffed at. But a PL player he is not, and never will be.

 

Then his seasons playing in the Premier League are a fantastic achievement, considering he isn’t good enough to play there.

I reckon he’d be a top Premier League player at defensive midfield. 

[7HAR1980 106]

4 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Ferguson signed Djemba Djemba etc etc. This is a lazy argument.

The teams he's played in have all struggled at PL level and conceded loads. Four PL seasons and he has one bottom of the table, one fifth bottom and one fourth bottom. He's not good enough to play at the highest level.

He gets moved out to full back because he's not good enough at centre half and his athleticism means he can do a job there and his lack of intelligence is less obvious. Problem is he isn't skillful enough to play at full back either. He's a (very good) Championship centre half, which is not to be sniffed at. But a PL player he is not, and never will be.

 

This is the epitome of a lazy argument!

Blaming Godfrey for Evertons demise? And for our poor first Farke era premier league season?

What other stick can you beat Godfrey with?

Also, he is already a premier league player as he's playing in the premier league. If you hadn't noticed.

[Jersey Canary 143]

Godfrey has been injured a lot which hasn’t helped and also a lot of injuries at Everton which prevented him playing in the right position. 
 

He’ll be on too much money to come back here. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,464]

On 01/06/2023 at 16:28, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Good athlete ...bad defender positionally

Still wonder whether he would/could be a better holding midfielder

Surely DM is the place where positioning is most important? I'd say it's probably 75% of the job description. If Godfrey's biggest weakness as a defender is his positional sense (and I think I'd agree with that), I don't think I'd hold out much hope for him as a DM.

[Barham Blitz 654]

10 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Ferguson signed Djemba Djemba etc etc. This is a lazy argument.

The teams he's played in have all struggled at PL level and conceded loads. Four PL seasons and he has one bottom of the table, one fifth bottom and one fourth bottom. He's not good enough to play at the highest level.

He gets moved out to full back because he's not good enough at centre half and his athleticism means he can do a job there and his lack of intelligence is less obvious. Problem is he isn't skillful enough to play at full back either. He's a (very good) Championship centre half, which is not to be sniffed at. But a PL player he is not, and never will be.

 

Well, opinions and all that. I tend to favour Ancelotti's over yours because it is more in line with my own.  I only used the quote because it specifically addressed several of the points you raised.  Plus - and I really don't intend this to be personal - he does tend to have a decent track record of knowing what he is talking about.

Godfrey is a Premier League player because demonstrably that's where he has been playing ?!  Whilst he may not be the archetypal Dyche centre back he has elements to his game which are excellent in that role even in the premiership and he will do well in the right tactical setup. 

He has been playing at full back because Everton have a large number of available centre backs and no available full backs.  I have actually partially agreed with your issue with Godfrey's positioning (although I have put that down to inexperience rather than anything innate as you seem to be implying) but as others have also suggested would disagree with your opinion about his ability on the ball - certainly for a centre back. He may not stand out in technical terms as a full back (probably because he isn't a full back,) but he is good enough to be picked to play there.

I suspect that he will remain a Premiership player if he stays in this country because other people who potentially know a bit about football may agree.  If he signs for a championship team you may have a point.  Let's see how that pans out - I may even be tempted into a small PUPs wager with you on the subject if you are utterly convinced ...

Edited June 3, 2023 by Barham Blitz

[wcorkcanary 4,337]

He ' throws good shapes ' as they say in footy circles  and has a bit of pace about him.

But , the image that springs to mind when I think of BG is him on the half turn backwards, with a panicked  look on his face as he realised he's  been caught out of position... again. Without his recovery pace i doubt we'd have been able to sell him for what we did, it papers over some of the cracks in his game. Seems a decent lad though  and he's a trier. 

 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,797]

35 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Surely DM is the place where positioning is most important? I'd say it's probably 75% of the job description. If Godfrey's biggest weakness as a defender is his positional sense (and I think I'd agree with that), I don't think I'd hold out much hope for him as a DM.

 

I believe his athleticism would allow him to cover the ground to screen in front of the back 4 with more competent defenders behind him to actually prevent goals.

Would also allow him to ocassionally break forward which I think he has in his armoury to do

My mind goes back to last season where we beat Everton 2-1 at Carrow Rd where Adam Idah (yes Idah!) absolutely bullied him in the first half forcing Benitez to bring Mina on a H/T and push Godfrey out wide to full back.

Its no coincidence that 3 (or 4?...I lose count) different Everton managers havent fully trusted him to play regularly at CB in a back 4, instead either benching him, playing him at full back or playing him in a back 3

[NeymarSmith 132]

To all the people questioning his ability, if we signed him tomo for 9m plus a 2/3 promotion bonus to everton, had him on 35 to DBL upon promition, and we still had some money left over from max sale and a possible other sale, would you be happy, or would you be ticked off about it?

[Worthy Nigelton 1,062]

2 hours ago, Barham Blitz said:

Well, opinions and all that. I tend to favour Ancelotti's over yours because it is more in line with my own.  I only used the quote because it specifically addressed several of the points you raised.  Plus - and I really don't intend this to be personal - he does tend to have a decent track record of knowing what he is talking about.

Godfrey is a Premier League player because demonstrably that's where he has been playing ?!  Whilst he may not be the archetypal Dyche centre back he has elements to his game which are excellent in that role even in the premiership and he will do well in the right tactical setup. 

He has been playing at full back because Everton have a large number of available centre backs and no available full backs.  I have actually partially agreed with your issue with Godfrey's positioning (although I have put that down to inexperience rather than anything innate as you seem to be implying) but as others have also suggested would disagree with your opinion about his ability on the ball - certainly for a centre back. He may not stand out in technical terms as a full back (probably because he isn't a full back,) but he is good enough to be picked to play there.

I suspect that he will remain a Premiership player if he stays in this country because other people who potentially know a bit about football may agree.  If he signs for a championship team you may have a point.  Let's see how that pans out - I may even be tempted into a small PUPs wager with you on the subject if you are utterly convinced ...

He's barely played for a team that avoided relegation on the final day. He may well get another PL move but it will be a team that gets relegated or nearly relegated, I'll have a wager on that. Then they will also realise he's not up to it, he'll get dropped, and sold again from there.

Not good enough - if you want to struggle badly in the PL sign Ben Godfrey as a centre half.

[ec-p 98]

He wound Haaland up a treat when they played Man City though. Kudos for that! 

[paddycanary 539]

On 02/06/2023 at 11:40, wcorkcanary said:

Didn't  KM get special permission from Man U to play in AllIreland Final for the Dubs , Paddyo ? Thought I heard that on Offtheball the other evening while cooking.  

Don't remember the exact details Corky but I think he came home for the semi-final (78?) without saying anything to Man United and got a bit bashed up. For the final, Tony Hanahoe & Jimmy Keaveney travelled over to Manchester to explain to Man U boss Dave Sexton the magnitude of his importance back in Dublin. Sexton had never even heard of Gaelic Football and was apparently flabbergasted that an amateur game would attract 80,000+ supporters. Of course Kevin Moran returned to Manchester after losing the final with a load of stitches in his head all bandaged up again & that was the end of his Dublin career!

[wcorkcanary 4,337]

1 hour ago, paddycanary said:

Don't remember the exact details Corky but I think he came home for the semi-final (78?) without saying anything to Man United and got a bit bashed up. For the final, Tony Hanahoe & Jimmy Keaveney travelled over to Manchester to explain to Man U boss Dave Sexton the magnitude of his importance back in Dublin. Sexton had never even heard of Gaelic Football and was apparently flabbergasted that an amateur game would attract 80,000+ supporters. Of course Kevin Moran returned to Manchester after losing the final with a load of stitches in his head all bandaged up again & that was the end of his Dublin career!

Cheers!!

[Terminally Yellow 2,477]

On 03/06/2023 at 12:50, Worthy Nigelton said:

He's barely played for a team that avoided relegation on the final day. He may well get another PL move but it will be a team that gets relegated or nearly relegated, I'll have a wager on that. Then they will also realise he's not up to it, he'll get dropped, and sold again from there.

Not good enough - if you want to struggle badly in the PL sign Ben Godfrey as a centre half.

One player isn't responsible for a whole team's performance, so that's an over exaggeration, but I do think he's probably one of those players who is too good for Champ but not good enough for the Prem. 

Still, there's always that move to DM in his future, isn't there? 🤣

[Google Bot 3,298]

On 03/06/2023 at 09:32, Robert N. LiM said:

Surely DM is the place where positioning is most important? I'd say it's probably 75% of the job description. If Godfrey's biggest weakness as a defender is his positional sense (and I think I'd agree with that), I don't think I'd hold out much hope for him as a DM.

You could put Pukki at CB and say he's got crap positional sense though, When people say that Godfrey is more suited to that role it's because of the type of player he is.

For me personally, I see him best when mobile and reacting to what's in front of him, playing at CB is inherently a less reactive position, and more about staying in formation, holding a line and knowing when to break off and when to cover.  Not to mention the requirement to get your head on balls.

[spencer 1970 207]

On 01/06/2023 at 17:34, Ken Hairy said:

Wonder if the idea of him at CDM has ever been voiced before.....😏

I wonder what the odds of all 3 coming back down, and all 3 relegated side going back up would be. i dont think either has happened but its looking more likely as time moves on.

Lets face it So'ton finished bottom and they are better that all promoted sides, possibly on a par with Burnley, but better than the other 2.

[Yobocop 1,105]

This will upset a few of the armchair football coaches but I’ll say it anyway 

Ben Godfrey will not and cannot play as a defensive midfielder any higher than league one 

give it up 

[Galactico 16]

Not too long ago Godfrey was on the fringe of the England squad and, played in the right position, he's a top half Premier League player. There's not the slightest chance of him dropping into the Championship.

[Mella Yella 40]

Ben Godfrey like so many others, played his best football under Farke.

[Google Bot 3,298]

9 hours ago, Galactico said:

There's not the slightest chance of him dropping into the Championship.

Depends, I could see him joining Leeds as part of a rebuild.  Particularly if they did take on Farke.

[king canary 7,654]

Godfrey is the kind of players managers will fall in love with as he has a lot of the raw tools that you just can't teach and they'll gamble on being able to coach the other stuff up with him.

No surprise his best football came under an elite coach with a track record of coaching up defenders. Farke and Lampard aren't exactly known for this part of the game. 

[sgncfc 1,253]

On 13/06/2023 at 07:30, Galactico said:

Not too long ago Godfrey was on the fringe of the England squad and, played in the right position, he's a top half Premier League player. There's not the slightest chance of him dropping into the Championship.

He was dropped by England like a hot potato. I'm interested though, what do you think his "right position" is, because it certainly isn't CB?

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,846]

2 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

He was dropped by England like a hot potato. I'm interested though, what do you think his "right position" is, because it certainly isn't CB?

I've always said since his time here that his best position would be wide in a back three. He has the pace to deal with threats out wide, and the safety net behind him to cover for his defensive lapses. He also has more freedom to come forward with the ball, which he has the ability and tendency to do.

[sgncfc 1,253]

3 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I've always said since his time here that his best position would be wide in a back three. He has the pace to deal with threats out wide, and the safety net behind him to cover for his defensive lapses. He also has more freedom to come forward with the ball, which he has the ability and tendency to do.

Almost no one plays with a back 3 all the time, so that makes him a fringe squad member at best. Can't see him getting into a top half squad after his underwhelming form at Everton.

[Barham Blitz 654]

3 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I've always said since his time here that his best position would be wide in a back three. He has the pace to deal with threats out wide, and the safety net behind him to cover for his defensive lapses. He also has more freedom to come forward with the ball, which he has the ability and tendency to do.

I'd agree with that.  I'd also point out that at least as important as the formation at the back is where the defensive line is held.  A deep defensive line (as incidentally Dyche tends to play) and Godfrey is less effective.  A high defensive line and his pace - ideally alongside a more aerially dominant centre back - becomes invaluable.