Deja vu Dean Smith

[Google Bot 3,329]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

People can slag off Smith as much as they like, but fans getting their way has been a costly waste of time and effort.

If fans got their way, would he have been appointed in the first place? 

EDP ran a poll where 8,000 people voted and he got 10%.  The board electing to rip up the plan and go with such a stark contrast from Farke to Smith was the costly part.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Google Bot

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

We have to go with what is available to us. He didn't get a full season.

And the club clearly wanted him to have a full season if it was up to them. And he should have had it. We are worse off because it didn't happen.

Edited May 16, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Canario 208]

Also need to consider his results against the top 6. If by some miracle he got us into the playoff spots, would we have beaten those sides? 

Im sure someone has the stats but i doubt our results against top 6 in regular season were positive.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

1 minute ago, Google Bot said:

EDP ran a poll where 8,000 people voted and he got 10%.  The board not electing to rip up the plan and go with such a stark contrast from Farke to Smith was the costly part.

This speaks to this weird idea of fans stipulating a style of play for the club. Do people honestly think we're big enough and attractive enough to recruit to such precision that that's a reasonable expectation if we're also going to want to get results to get promoted and stay up?

[Google Bot 3,329]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

This speaks to this weird idea of fans stipulating a style of play for the club.

Wasn't the fans at all, it's the style that Webber (Along with Farke) brought to this club which caused a restructure to the head coach/sporting director model, in order to sustain an ongoing plan of development.

It was they that decided to u-turn on the principles sold to us and appointed a manager that very few wanted, and who himself didn't want to embrace the fans, was in stark contrast to Farke, whom the players had been in to a previous plan. 

How any of that is fan driven I really don't know(?).

We've had two really **** seasons, so us getting our "own way" is complete **** mate - we just wanted a team to get behind, that's all.  Not all of us carry an agenda or such like.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

9 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Wasn't the fans at all, it's the style that Webber (Along with Farke) brought to this club which caused a restructure to the head coach/sporting director model, in order to sustain an ongoing plan of development.

It was they that decided to u-turn on the principles sold to us and appointed a manager that very few wanted, and who himself didn't want to embrace the fans, was in stark contrast to Farke, whom the players had been in to a previous plan. 

How any of that is fan driven I really don't know(?).

We've had two really **** seasons, so us getting our "own way" is complete **** mate - we just wanted a team to get behind, that's all.  Not all of us carry an agenda or such like.

Sure, but that doesn't preclude a change of direction when the overall direction you've pursued for some time (five years is a very good run in a consistent approach) has clearly plateaued at an awkward point of football so beautifully crafted for the Championship that we're totally hopeless and inflexible in the Premier League.

Edited May 16, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[king canary 7,680]

25 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Not reasonable to count the Premier League record. He inherited a massively failing team in the Premier league, besides which his record with us in the Premier league was better than Farke's.

Sorry, I meant his entire Championship time here.

That is the 1.46 PPG figure. I agree including Premier League would be ridiculous.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Sorry, I meant his entire Championship time here.

That is the 1.46 PPG figure. I agree including Premier League would be ridiculous.

1.5 points per game was the threshold for the playoffs this season. We finished the season on 1.35 points per game over the whole season.

[hogesar 9,766]

33 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

And the club clearly wanted him to have a full season if it was up to them. And he should have had it. We are worse off because it didn't happen.

I mean the club probably wants to never have to sack a manager because it costs money and means somethings gone wrong, so that's not really relevant.

I'd have given Smith more time had the fans not turned but they had. And it wasn't just a minority. I don't think we are worse off at all, with the current trajectory and mood around the place, we were more than likely to seriously struggle.

[king canary 7,680]

6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

1.5 points per game was the threshold for the playoffs this season. We finished the season on 1.35 points per game over the whole season.

So you agree based on his PPG we wouldn't have made the playoffs.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

Just now, hogesar said:

I mean the club probably wants to never have to sack a manager because it costs money and means somethings gone wrong, so that's not really relevant.

I'd have given Smith more time had the fans not turned but they had. And it wasn't just a minority. I don't think we are worse off at all, with the current trajectory and mood around the place, we were more than likely to seriously struggle.

The mood was absolutely the problem, and ultimately only the fans have control over that. And the fan mood was ultimately created by a persistent push by a minority who simply wanted the manager gone at all costs.

I think it's fair enough that the club shouldn't blame the fans. They are paying customers after all. But personally, as a paying customer myself, albeit from afar, I feel fully entitled to blame the fans that were so set on getting rid of Smith for actually preventing anyone actually seeing how this season might have played out without the needless disruption.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

So you agree based on his PPG we wouldn't have made the playoffs.

No, seeing as there's a large degree of uncertainty in how things may have gone given the large number of games left. 0.04 points per game is well within that degree of uncertainty.

But clearly our points per game finished up far worse under Wagner.

[Jim Smith 2,345]

I don’t understand why so many get so personal about Smith. He seems a decent bloke and he tried his best. He just wasn’t the right man for us and I don’t think he was really as motivated and sharp as one would like.

That said, the amount of money that he and Shakey look likely to bank this season for failing at three different clubs says a lot about how football rewards utter mediocrity and/or failure to an obscene degree. Some very, very, average coaches and players earn some quite shocking amounts and seem to just be able to walk straight into a new job time and time again. 

[Google Bot 3,329]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Sure, but that doesn't preclude a change of direction when the overall direction you've pursued for some time (five years is a very good run in a consistent approach) has clearly plateaued

But you talk of costs caused by fans "getting their way", we didn't universally ask for this, and we didn't ask for Smith to be appointed as a replacement.

It was the clubs decision to u-turn on their own plan, and I dare say it was in reaction to external criticisms of the club rather than our own fans voices.

It never reached the level where Farke's position was untenable with the fans, and dare I say that the win at Brentford could've been followed up with a win at home to the Saints too.  So to suggest that we're the reason for costs and wasted time is misguided (imo).

Edited May 16, 2023 by Google Bot

[wcorkcanary 4,347]

3 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I don’t understand why so many get so personal about Smith. He seems a decent bloke and he tried his best. He just wasn’t the right man for us and I don’t think he was really as motivated and sharp as one would like.

That said, the amount of money that he and Shakey look likely to bank this season for failing at three different clubs says a lot about how football rewards utter mediocrity and/or failure to an obscene degree. Some very, very, average coaches and players earn some quite shocking amounts and seem to just be able to walk straight into a new job time and time again. 

As ever , it's not what you  know, it's who you know. 

@essex canary  take  note. You may have more success if you joined the back scratching club.  At the moment you're  an outsider pi55ing in, trouble is im not sure you'd be welcome on the inside as you don't seem to be able to hold your pi55 at all...let alone long enough to pi55  outwards. 

[nutty nigel 7,647]

I

14 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I don’t understand why so many get so personal about Smith. He seems a decent bloke and he tried his best. He just wasn’t the right man for us and I don’t think he was really as motivated and sharp as one would like.

That said, the amount of money that he and Shakey look likely to bank this season for failing at three different clubs says a lot about how football rewards utter mediocrity and/or failure to an obscene degree. Some very, very, average coaches and players earn some quite shocking amounts and seem to just be able to walk straight into a new job time and time again. 

It's even harder to understand why so many get personal about Delia (and Michael but a lot less).

[Mello Yello 2,303]

Whoosh.....In like Flint.....Must have Jim on speed scan dial....

[Ulfotto 644]

Still don’t understand the hate for Smith and the glee associated with him not doing well elsewhere.

I mean he’s so bland that he is to love and hard to hate. I am certain that it might be a while before a manager is booed when they lose a close game but if they had won would have put them second in the championship.

I still believe lots of fans are still living in 2018/2019

[nutty nigel 7,647]

Looks like I'm on speed stalk. At least it's only on line which is a little less weird. Still weird though...

[It's Character Forming 1,167]

9 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

Still don’t understand the hate for Smith and the glee associated with him not doing well elsewhere.

I mean he’s so bland that he is to love and hard to hate. I am certain that it might be a while before a manager is booed when they lose a close game but if they had won would have put them second in the championship.

I still believe lots of fans are still living in 2018/2019

I wouldn't say I hate Smith, but I do find his time as manager very annoying/frustrating.  I think there are a mix of reasons :

 

1.  We got rid of the guy who gave us the 18/19 season for this ?

2.  Smith tried to blame the fans for being the problem.  Just nonsense.

3.  Smith would always find some excuse or point to xG stats when they suited him to justify that things were ok when it was obvious to us fans who actually paid attention to the games that they weren't.  Many of us were expressing concerns about the way the team was playing even when the results were good, and those concerns were fully borne out by the subsequent collapse of form aka chickens coming home to roost.

4. Smith always talked a good game but it was just hot air, e.g. saying we'd come back different after the WC break, which turned out to be true only in the sense that things were worse.

5.  Look at the very ordinary teams in the playoffs.

 

Do I feel glee that he's not (so far) doing well at Leicester ?  No, more a wry sense of amusement that he can't manage to avoid the drop with a much better squad and a much smaller gap than he had to deal with here.

 

Too early to write them off, just look at some of the recent results, but it would now be surprising if they survive, which is appalling given the squad they have.

[king canary 7,680]

Well I'm glad people have shown up to crowbar their own weird hobbyhorses into a discussion they aren't relevant to.

[nutty nigel 7,647]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Well I'm glad people have shown up to crowbar their own weird hobbyhorses into a discussion they aren't relevant to.

Just replying to poster's posts Kingo.

Could you fix the emojis buddy?

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by nutty nigel
😎👍😃💛⚽💚💪💪🏿

[norfolkngood 1,092]

9 hours ago, Google Bot said:

But you talk of costs caused by fans "getting their way", we didn't universally ask for this, and we didn't ask for Smith to be appointed as a replacement.

It was the clubs decision to u-turn on their own plan, and I dare say it was in reaction to external criticisms of the club rather than our own fans voices.

It never reached the level where Farke's position was untenable with the fans, and dare I say that the win at Brentford could've been followed up with a win at home to the Saints too.  So to suggest that we're the reason for costs and wasted time is misguided (imo).

hindsight is wonderful but you are right and made me think about Farke  when we won against Brentford maybe sacking him then was wrong  the whole mood might of changed and he might of got another result against the saints 

Again Hindsight is wonderful and if we had that time again i would not have sacked Farke after that win 

[paddycanary 539]

13 hours ago, Mello Yello said:

The Foxes were absolutely dire....

Their issues need some serious vixen

[Mello Yello 2,303]

1 minute ago, paddycanary said:

Their issues need some serious vixen

Or they'll be bark in the Championship....

[Nexus_Canary 1,028]

Dean Smith found out, never work in the top flight again after this!

Should have been fired when mathematically down, lets see if the foxes have the balls to do what we should have done 

[Nexus_Canary 1,028]

23 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The mood was absolutely the problem, and ultimately only the fans have control over that. And the fan mood was ultimately created by a persistent push by a minority who simply wanted the manager gone at all costs.

I think it's fair enough that the club shouldn't blame the fans. They are paying customers after all. But personally, as a paying customer myself, albeit from afar, I feel fully entitled to blame the fans that were so set on getting rid of Smith for actually preventing anyone actually seeing how this season might have played out without the needless disruption.

I D I O T

Sit down and drink your warm milk

[Mengo 825]

22 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

I

It's even harder to understand why so many get personal about Delia (and Michael but a lot less).

Who's  Michael ?🤣🤫🚬 

[Indy 3,323]

15 minutes ago, Mengo said:

Who's  Michael ?🤣🤫🚬 

Delia’s MiniMe!

[hogesar 9,766]

31 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Dean Smith found out, never work in the top flight again after this!

Should have been fired when mathematically down, lets see if the foxes have the balls to do what we should have done 

They won't need balls to sack him, he's only got the job till end of season anyway doesn't he?