If Wagner had been given the World Cup with the players

[canarybubbles 1,939]

I know it's pointless speculation, but where do posters think we would be now if Smith had been sacked before the World Cup and Wagner had been given the jolly to Florida?

My own guess is that we still wouldn't be looking great, but we would probably have picked up the extra 3-6 points we needed to make the play-offs. Assuming we failed in those, at least there would be a little optimism about next season, not the almost blanket negativity there is now.

What do other people think?

[Canary Jedi 589]

Champions league qualification at the very least!

[RugbyCanary 94]

Good man manager, needs a decent coach with him I think. Closed season and rebuild will be key. Would you give Wagner next season? I wouldn't personally 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

13 minutes ago, RugbyCanary said:

Good man manager, needs a decent coach with him I think. Closed season and rebuild will be key. Would you give Wagner next season? I wouldn't personally 

Webber must go...and if he does then Wagner surely goes too

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

It's a good point tbh. Who knows we may have gone on a roll and comfortably finished in the play-offs, or the bubble may have burst even sooner.

If we had more consistent performances then perhaps additional time with Wagner may have paid dividends, but we look as flakey as we've ever did with Smith.

The thing for me is that we didn't strengthen in January, particularly as we lost Cantwell and Ramsey, yet suddenly we are to believe funds will be available for an 'overhaul'.

[Bert 236]

He is a waste of space I have seen nothing to say he should go and we should build afresh in the summer 

[......and Smith must score. 1,359]

27 minutes ago, Bert said:

He is a waste of space I have seen nothing to say he should go and we should build afresh in the summer 

This makes no sense Waveney.

” He is a waste of space “………..” I have seen nothing to say he should go “  ??  

Stay or go ?

Edited April 25, 2023 by ......and Smith must score.

[repman 635]

I don't think it would be much different. We'd possibly be fitter and therefore able to be a slightly more aggressive pressing side but the problems we see now would still remain. 

Early on in his tenure I was very pleased with Wagner because he had put in place a possession plan (Kenny dropping in and so on) which also meant we improved defensively. Since then though it's become clear that this possession work was the limit of what he can do, rather than the beginning of a process to instil ideas into these players.

The fact there's been no progression in our possession play the last 2 months is extremely worrying, in fact you could probably argue it's regressed with injuries, which is perhaps a sign that it wasn't the system making things work but it was reliant on key contributors. 

[It's Character Forming 1,165]

3 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

I know it's pointless speculation, but where do posters think we would be now if Smith had been sacked before the World Cup and Wagner had been given the jolly to Florida?

My own guess is that we still wouldn't be looking great, but we would probably have picked up the extra 3-6 points we needed to make the play-offs. Assuming we failed in those, at least there would be a little optimism about next season, not the almost blanket negativity there is now.

What do other people think?

No one can say for sure, but my feel is that it would have given him the crucial time with the squad to change the mindset a bit and that would be the difference between playoffs and not.

[Number9 272]

He still wouldn't have a Plan B

[norfolkngood 1,087]

i do not think the players Performances have improved enough to say Wagner would have got more points 

Zoe Webber said “It is never our wish to find new head coaches, but the reality of life at this level means that we constantly track and monitor the performance of coaches across the world as part of our approach. 

what utter rubbish Tracked managers across world football and end up with hubbies mate ! 

[crispeduk 282]

Classic marginal gains. Even a slight improvement and a couple of goals at the right time might be all it would've taken for an extra three or four points since the World Cup. Then if we were maybes to win the lottery the play-offs often turn into there's precious little time to reshape a creaking squad for the Prem, or for that matter the Championship. I doubt there was a genius strategy to let the obvious drift continue at the time but by happy chance we might now have the time for a fighting chance of sorting the squad out before another new season is wrecked by Christmas. I'm not really fussed now who we have as head coach to be honest, but to bin another after the wreckage the present one has had to pick his way through (whoever's fault that is), seems premature after the patience his predecessors were shown by the club.

Edited April 25, 2023 by crispeduk
was incomplete

[It's Character Forming 1,165]

48 minutes ago, crispeduk said:

Classic marginal gains. Even a slight improvement and a couple of goals at the right time might be all it would've taken for an extra three or four points since the World Cup. Then if we were maybes to win the lottery the play-offs often turn into there's precious little time to reshape a creaking squad for the Prem, or for that matter the Championship. I doubt there was a genius strategy to let the obvious drift continue at the time but by happy chance we might now have the time for a fighting chance of sorting the squad out before another new season is wrecked by Christmas. I'm not really fussed now who we have as head coach to be honest, but to bin another after the wreckage the present one has had to pick his way through (whoever's fault that is), seems premature after the patience his predecessors were shown by the club.

Yes, people need to look back at Farke's first season which was pretty indifferent all around.  Sometimes it takes a new manager time to get things working the way he wants.

 

If we'd beaten Huddersfield and Rotherham, both games we should have won, we'd be on 66 points and in the playoff zone.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

If we're doing "what ifs", what if we'd bought a DM in the summer who wasn't a total crock....

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,449]

Smith was sacked after we lost to Luton. We thought this was a terrible result. Luton are currently 3rd so maybe it wasn’t what we thought 

Under Milk Tray Man we drew with Reading and lost to Watford . Losing to Watford was to be expected we thought as they were likely to be in the shakeup. Sarr was on fire that night . We were not overly worried. Watford are currently 13th. The defeat was worse than we thought 

We appointed Wagner on 6th Jan. after we got knocked out of the cup we beat Preston and Coventry . Two poor sides we thought . Doesn’t tell us anything . Both are currently above us with Cov is 5th. So these were very good results it seems 

The point I’m making is that this season has been a tale of the unexpected. Burnley (basket case) have run away with it . The other relegated clubs (will be top 3 at the very least) are 11th and 13th. 
 

Was Smith the problem ? Was Wagner the solution? Are the players good enough? 
 

Questions questions. 
 

Been a f funny old season G Granville. 

[TheBaldOne66 697]

Further down the League than we currently are as he seems clueless as to what to do to stop the rot

[Robert N. LiM 4,477]

I think if Wagner had been appointed ahead of the WC break he'd currently be more worried about his job than he probably is at the moment.

All in all, he's been a disappointment. But there are enough mitigating factors and other targets to ensure the focus won't be on him. 

[hogesar 9,736]

Assuming the same injuries would have happened, I doubt it would have made much difference at all in terms of optimism.

[CDMullins 446]

Considering the end of the season was worse than his start, I'd say pretty much the same.

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

According to my quick tot up Wagner has gained 26 pts in 18 games. Extrapolates to 66 pts a season mid table mediocrity.

Interestingly so far in March and April we picked up 10 pts from 10 games. That's relegation form.

Smith's pts pg was 1.38, so a marginal gain for Wagner. Obviously neither are near the dizzy heights of Farke's Championship return.

The jury is well and truly out on Wagner but he has to hit the ground running next season.

 

[AJ 1,224]

The squad is as much the issue as the management. I don't think it would have made any difference to our finishing position at all. 

[yellowrider120 782]

9 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

i do not think the players Performances have improved enough to say Wagner would have got more points 

Zoe Webber said “It is never our wish to find new head coaches, but the reality of life at this level means that we constantly track and monitor the performance of coaches across the world as part of our approach. 

what utter rubbish Tracked managers across world football and end up with hubbies mate ! 

Just PR spin to justify her husbands role and exalted salary. Remember the quote when N Adams was appointed full time? seem to recall it went something like this.................'we scoured all over Europe only to find the perfect candidate was already on our books'.

Honestly 'you couldn't make it up' (as the saying goes). Different Head Honcho same spouted rubbish as a sop to the proletariat attempting to convince them of the professionalism and objectivity of the search. Many fell for it in 2014 and many fell for it again at the start of 2023!   Wagner was always going to get the job provided he was available and wanted it. That's why my £20 at 18/1 was akin to 'shooting fish in a barrel'. My only regret was not slapping on £100 or even £1,000 as I was so convinced he would get the job!

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

13 hours ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

This makes no sense Waveney.

” He is a waste of space “………..” I have seen nothing to say he should go “  ??  

Stay or go ?

Well done for pointing out The Clash there.