Former EDP Fans Eye Now Has His Say.

[nutty nigel 7,555]

13 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

This will be please Nutty.

This is such a selfless act that his followers should support. While they're meekly renewing their great leader is a shining example of how to behave. Their bleat bleat bleat with no action must be a real disappointment to him. Perhaps he'll now spend his Saturday afternoons announcing departures at Norwich Thorpe railway station...

Edited April 25, 2023 by nutty nigel
🚂🔊 toot toot...

[chicken 2,640]

25 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

We were relegated after three seasons in the PL in 2011/12.  I acknowledge that it was 11 seasons ago, not 12, but the point stands.  Since then we have never stayed up.  I don't expect PL survival, but I do expect us to look as though we're trying. 

After the club's pledge to rebuild and enlarge the City Stand failed to materialise, they thought they could get bums on seats no matter what.  That may be about to change . . . 

 

 

Are we going to keep raising new points or just accept that it wasn't no change in 25yrs before we move on - that was your primary argument. Everything else since has been goalpost moving really.

[essex canary 501]

There is always change in 25 years. The real question is how proactive as opposed to reactive has the change been?

[Mello Yello 2,298]

"You don't wanna be supporter like him.....you wanna be a supporter like me!"

                             

[Greavsy 2,418]

22 hours ago, essex canary said:

Don't put too much emphasis on 'think'

You don't usually!  😉

[ridgeman 132]

14 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Whose desk will this land on oh yes Mrs Webber. Nuff said.

[benchwarmer 625]

2 hours ago, chicken said:

Are we going to keep raising new points or just accept that it wasn't no change in 25yrs before we move on - that was your primary argument. Everything else since has been goalpost moving really.

Since you have studiously avoided addressing any of the points I have already raised, I agree with you that it's rather a waste of time.

[nutty nigel 7,555]

5 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

What's felt like it's not changed in the past 20 years is that the club constantly fails to grasp the opportunities handed to it. Sometimes it's a lack of desire, others a lack of resources. Unfortunately all the fingers for both point at the owners.

This is is a very good point and shouldn't be dismissed lightly. We've been handed all these opportunities while other clubs have missed out. I think we should call it 'the food bank model'. I don't know how Delia and Michael have managed to continually be at the front of the queue while other more worthy paupers haven't had a sniff. We need to try and keep this model in tact for any new owners to build on. It would be such a shame if we suddenly had a little more money only to find the food bank shut.

 

 

[TheBaldOne66 693]

16 hours ago, chicken said:

I am sort of glad he has given up his season ticket to be honest. I agree with @king canary - if you had stumbled across his twitter over the last five years, you'd note that his view was largely all negative. If he was also very vocal back in 2009, then we're back to a broken clock always being stuck...

Obviously people are welcome to their opinion, don't make the mistake that just because he wrote a column once that he actually has any real insight or is better informed etc than anyone else.

In fact, Purple has already highlighted that with the missing of the point that we have the roles he says we don't, already in the club, but he either doesn't understand the nuance in the changes, or he does and is trying to push for clamour to support him. IMHO he's more than a few times clearly tried to grab attention on twitter with outlandish stuff. This is as good as saying "why don't we appoint a manager, we haven't had a manager since Webber arrived" - ignoring that in this model, you have a head coach.

I get a lot of folks are feeling a bit "hurt" at the moment, but some stuff really is just too much. 

This constant "usual suspects" followed by claims of "joining the line of them" etc is just pathetic, tin pot and embarrassing. People don't have to agree with you. If they don't, it doesn't make them a lower species than you. It doesn't make them wrong either. Nor does it make you right.

There are so many wild accusations being thrown around at the moment, and confusion. I say that because people are still calling for Delia to leave when it is highly probably that at the very least, her shareholding has vastly diminished. Again, people don't appear to call for the joint majority shareholders, just her. It is very much likely to be an out of date demand.

On that note, I picked up in the latest pinkun article on the subject of the summer that Wagner said he spoke to the "owner" - something I see very few people have commented upon. It could be a slip of the tongue OR... 



This comment is relevant here too. There are lots of nuts conspiracy theories. Ward and Webber have Delia and Michael dancing like marionettes on their strings. Again, see the point above when it is likely that it is not those that are now needed to dance to the tune. Not only that, Webber is on a rolling contract is he not? Hardly smacks of manipulation when he could have been handed a bumper five year contract with a clause to leave should an established top flight club come in for him etc. That sort of goes hand in hand with the claim that he only has a job because Ward won't sack him, or suggestions to a similar end - again, no one knows this and it is highly improbable due to the conflict of interest this would create, that she is able to have a say in that regard. 

So lets get back to the point at hand. It's looking highly likely that we have failed to bounce back up at the first time of asking, a feat we had managed last time we were relegated. Without doubt everyone who is a fan is gutted. Absolutely no doubt everyone will have their theories on how we could have done better, signed this player instead of that, did this instead of that, sacked so on earlier, appointed someone else.

As TIL says, all "if, buts and maybes". Hindsight is wonderful.

Is it time for change? Well, yes. Because change is 'a happenin', what it'll look like is uncertain right now. Do I disagree with people who are unhappy, no. Does that mean I agree with them, no. I am unhappy too. I just have never agreed with having to fabricate things to add weight to how I am feeling, or to give me a target for that feeling. Most things in life are complicated, simple pointing of fingers is easy to do and rarely correct.

 

 

 

 

 

But is change happening? Nobody knows for definite do they? Just because Attanasio has ten per cent doesn’t mean it’s a given he’s going to takeover does it?

As for my comment about the usual suspects, I stand by that. So many people on here are oblivious to the mess the club is now in because they think the club is so well run, well it’s not now is it?

if it was well run we wouldn’t have had the awful last two seasons because those in power would have seen it for themselves, and, if as claimed, was well run, something would have been done to address the slide. 
 

There have been so many chances for the club to move to the next level, but too many people, owners included, love the little old Norwich tag, which was coined by our illustrious female part of the ownership herself. 
 

I’ve never advocated a boom and bust way of running the club by the way, all I ever wanted was for the club to have attempted to move to the next level, and for me the best chance of that was when lambert was manager but again he wasn’t backed correctly and walked away. 
 

The current board seem clueless as to how to address the current malaise at the club, probably because they see 20k of season ticket holders and assume everybody is happy, which they may well be. 
 

I gave up my season ticket after many years because I was no longer happy with what I saw the first season Farke was here, some may say I was foolish but I don’t think I was because I wasn’t happy or enjoying the football, and in truth I haven’t missed it even in the 2 championship winning seasons. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by TheBaldOne66

[chicken 2,640]

44 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Since you have studiously avoided addressing any of the points I have already raised, I agree with you that it's rather a waste of time.

I haven't. I have pointed out how there was a massive shift in change in the last 25yrs which you've since then said more things that aren't accurate and actually prove the opposite to your original point.

25yrs takes us back to 1998. If you compare and contrast the first 12.5yrs to the second 12.5yrs there is absolutely no conclusion to be had other than the shake up of relegation to the third tier changed us massively. We are a very different beast now.

We are far more proactive in the youth market, we are developing youngsters through to first team football in numbers not seen since, well, Keith O'Neil, Coote, Marshall, Kenton, Forbes etc.

We've also been far more proactive abroad with signings. We'd never really heavily sought players from abroad.

Like I said  undeniable. If you want to rebrand change then you have to admit your first post was wrong, and re-submit what sort of change hasn't occured rather than just a general sort of change.

[hogesar 9,709]

59 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

 

I gave up my season ticket after many years because I was no longer happy with what I saw the first season Farke was here, some may say I was foolish but I don’t think I was because I wasn’t happy or enjoying the football, and in truth I haven’t missed it even in the 2 championship winning seasons. 

No wonder you're so grumpy. You tapped out at the wrong time. We all had an absolute blast watching Farke's sides tear apart the entire division whilst you wallowed in self pity 🙂

 

[East Rider 551]

12 minutes ago, hogesar said:

No wonder you're so grumpy. You tapped out at the wrong time. We all had an absolute blast watching Farke's sides tear apart the entire division whilst you wallowed in self pity 🙂

 

Correct. The bald one certainly snuck out at the wrong moment.

However, that we have not built on our superb chances when momentum and support was there in abundance, to establish or at least remain in the PL for anything other than a fleeting and unforgettable moment each time is simply criminal.   I find it difficult to look too far past that.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by East Rider

[Mason 47 1,389]

Haven't read the thread but having seen the most recent Twitter post (RB giving up season ticket) I find myself wondering how our fanbase has become so feckless.

 

[hogesar 9,709]

4 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Haven't read the thread but having seen the most recent Twitter post (RB giving up season ticket) I find myself wondering how our fanbase has become so feckless.

 

[chicken 2,640]

1 hour ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

But is change happening? Nobody knows for definite do they? Just because Attanasio has ten per cent doesn’t mean it’s a given he’s going to takeover does it?

It's pretty certain at this point. The defernites don't make sense otherwise. As in, creating shares to be bought that have been bought the instance they were made available doesn't make much sense otherwise. Even if you think that Delia and Michael were to buy up the majority of them, it wouldn't make sense. Why make more shares than you'd need to, to then buy the majority of them, sinking your own money into the club, at the same time making what shares you do have, worth less?

It's going to be more than 10%. The reliable sources are suggesting it will be close to 30% if not over it. The likes of Purple, who are far more informed, have suggested that it may not just be Attanasio, but that partners of his may also have invested so as a group, they could take up a shared majority ownership. There are a number of permutations, but essentially, yes, change has most likely occurred.

Certainly, the indicators point to that being the most probable conclusion. So hold fire, wait for more information and jump up and down as and when you have the information to do it with. Otherwise you could look a little silly yet... 

1 hour ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

As for my comment about the usual suspects, I stand by that. So many people on here are oblivious to the mess the club is now in because they think the club is so well run, well it’s not now is it?

if it was well run we wouldn’t have had the awful last two seasons because those in power would have seen it for themselves, and, if as claimed, was well run, something would have been done to address the slide. 

That argument goes both ways. Those that disagree will say that you are oblivious to things.

For example "they think the club is so well run, well it's not now is it?". This is far too general to be true. By that I mean - generally when people say the club is well run, they mean it isn't being run into the ground, it isn't being asset stripped, we don't have owners that have loaned money to the club and then held it to ransom with interest and clauses that they money owed increases exponentially.

Generally, the running of the club is separated from the sporting aspects of the club because outside of hiring and firing the head coach or sporting director, in this model, they have little imput to that side of the business. Theirs is more about ensuring the financial stability of the club and to make the most of opportunities for the non-footballing side of it to make money to be invested in the footballing side of it. With us, there is also the investment in the community aspect such as the Nest and the community sports foundation (though some on here will try and tell you 'community' means bending over and kissing the feet of minority shareholders who should be thanked personally for their generosity decades ago with financial reward now, even though that was not an agreement they entered into, but never mind that eh?).

The address the slide bit is interesting because in the last 15yrs the club has addressed the slide twice. The first took it to the third division after some poor managerial appointments who in turn had poor footballing philosophies and strategies that resulted in poor signings in general bar the odd Hoolahan.

Both times the club has addressed those issues it has improved hugely. The first time we appointed more people to the board such as Bowcett and also brought in someone more ruthless in McNally. Ultimately, McNally clashed with Lambert, Lambert left over lack of permission to sign the likes of Benteke and Vlaar, and signed them instead for Villa. We instead backed Houghton who brought in players of less quality for as much if not more money.

We persisted with that, getting another promotion on the bounce back via the play-off final, until we broke the bank after breaking the model we had of only offering contracts with relegation clauses in them if they stretched us beyond financial means on relegation. Which led to the slide with Alex Neil at the helm. Rather than persist, they acted and stopped the slide by instigation change once more.

We were most likely only heading in one direction at that point. The side Alex Neil left was largely bereft of young talent breaking through. The story appears to be that he didn't like the new direction the club wanted to take - which must have been about more youth and less chequebook.

That addressing of the slide led us to two promotions and two seasons in the premier league. We all accepted the first relegation based upon the fact we had zero money after Naismith and other players expensive contracts gobbled it up.

If we're being super honest, the summer of 2021 is still the one that most people remain bitter about. Most will say we assembled a poor side and that we could have done better. To use your turn of phrase again, many are "oblivious" to the fact that we set out with a very different plan that summer but were unable to land it. Armstrong, Ajer, Billing plus European targets. We were going for quality over quantity but failed to bring that big fish in.

Add to that the interactions with Webber publicly have been perceived to sour and you have a perfect concoction of unrest and anger.

Whether it's well placed or not depends upon your opinion.

However, for the most part, as detailed, I believe the club is well run considering the financial limitations it is set up to run to. We have an academy producing talent for the first team - which includes identifying youth targets that can be developed further with us, whether that be for a season like Gibbs, or for longer.

We have a club that is also usually profitable and is prepared to cut it's cloth accordingly, haven been badly burnt in recent times when it hasn't. 

That's also a great basis for any takeover - as many people who have wanted a change in ownership have argued for a long time. "Why would anyone not want to take over a club that could do so much more with even a modest amount of investment?"

Success on the pitch, or lack of it, is something else though. That's the sporting side, and that's to do with the head coach as well as the sporting director. But again, aspects of that are right such as the academy, the training facilities and the much improved medical facilities.

It's tweaks. It may be that Webber has run his course and someone else needs to come in and pick up the baton and take it further. Much like a Jamaican relay team with Usain Bolt, perhaps Webber has run hard and has us in the top four, but you need Bolt to take the batten and push us into the medals(success)? 



 

[essex canary 501]

@chicken

Thank you for another great diatribe especially on the subject of Community.

I like, meaning don't like, the way you divorce our football business from non-football business. That is a nonsense. Surely the main Mental Health focus of any Football Club is to provide entertaining accessible footballing entertainment for its fans? Which rather raises the question as to why we are justified in charging the highest admission prices in the EFL when neither the quality of Football on view justifies it nor the socio-economic profile of our county.  Why equally - when it was crystal clear that many predominantly elderly season ticket holders are not attending midweek games - was there no club initiative to recycle in favour of younger people?

All football clubs rightly make contributions such as the CSF. Equally though if our ED wanted to be a Director of Social Services I am sure she would find the work harder and the pay a good deal less.

Equally Michael Foulger is a minority shareholder so let's hope he eventually shows the same sense of community towards others who want to exit as he did to his own exit strategy.

[TheBaldOne66 693]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

No wonder you're so grumpy. You tapped out at the wrong time. We all had an absolute blast watching Farke's sides tear apart the entire division whilst you wallowed in self pity 🙂

 

Nothing to do with self pity, it got to the point I couldn’t justify spending so much on something I didn’t enjoy. Glad you enjoyed watching Farke tear the division up as you say. Did you enjoy what followed the next season too?

Also I got a job working away so wouldn’t have been able to go, but as you seem to know my circumstances so well I must have just been wallowing in self pity after all

[TheBaldOne66 693]

51 minutes ago, chicken said:

It's pretty certain at this point. The defernites don't make sense otherwise. As in, creating shares to be bought that have been bought the instance they were made available doesn't make much sense otherwise. Even if you think that Delia and Michael were to buy up the majority of them, it wouldn't make sense. Why make more shares than you'd need to, to then buy the majority of them, sinking your own money into the club, at the same time making what shares you do have, worth less?

It's going to be more than 10%. The reliable sources are suggesting it will be close to 30% if not over it. The likes of Purple, who are far more informed, have suggested that it may not just be Attanasio, but that partners of his may also have invested so as a group, they could take up a shared majority ownership. There are a number of permutations, but essentially, yes, change has most likely occurred.

Certainly, the indicators point to that being the most probable conclusion. So hold fire, wait for more information and jump up and down as and when you have the information to do it with. Otherwise you could look a little silly yet... 

That argument goes both ways. Those that disagree will say that you are oblivious to things.

For example "they think the club is so well run, well it's not now is it?". This is far too general to be true. By that I mean - generally when people say the club is well run, they mean it isn't being run into the ground, it isn't being asset stripped, we don't have owners that have loaned money to the club and then held it to ransom with interest and clauses that they money owed increases exponentially.

Generally, the running of the club is separated from the sporting aspects of the club because outside of hiring and firing the head coach or sporting director, in this model, they have little imput to that side of the business. Theirs is more about ensuring the financial stability of the club and to make the most of opportunities for the non-footballing side of it to make money to be invested in the footballing side of it. With us, there is also the investment in the community aspect such as the Nest and the community sports foundation (though some on here will try and tell you 'community' means bending over and kissing the feet of minority shareholders who should be thanked personally for their generosity decades ago with financial reward now, even though that was not an agreement they entered into, but never mind that eh?).

The address the slide bit is interesting because in the last 15yrs the club has addressed the slide twice. The first took it to the third division after some poor managerial appointments who in turn had poor footballing philosophies and strategies that resulted in poor signings in general bar the odd Hoolahan.

Both times the club has addressed those issues it has improved hugely. The first time we appointed more people to the board such as Bowcett and also brought in someone more ruthless in McNally. Ultimately, McNally clashed with Lambert, Lambert left over lack of permission to sign the likes of Benteke and Vlaar, and signed them instead for Villa. We instead backed Houghton who brought in players of less quality for as much if not more money.

We persisted with that, getting another promotion on the bounce back via the play-off final, until we broke the bank after breaking the model we had of only offering contracts with relegation clauses in them if they stretched us beyond financial means on relegation. Which led to the slide with Alex Neil at the helm. Rather than persist, they acted and stopped the slide by instigation change once more.

We were most likely only heading in one direction at that point. The side Alex Neil left was largely bereft of young talent breaking through. The story appears to be that he didn't like the new direction the club wanted to take - which must have been about more youth and less chequebook.

That addressing of the slide led us to two promotions and two seasons in the premier league. We all accepted the first relegation based upon the fact we had zero money after Naismith and other players expensive contracts gobbled it up.

If we're being super honest, the summer of 2021 is still the one that most people remain bitter about. Most will say we assembled a poor side and that we could have done better. To use your turn of phrase again, many are "oblivious" to the fact that we set out with a very different plan that summer but were unable to land it. Armstrong, Ajer, Billing plus European targets. We were going for quality over quantity but failed to bring that big fish in.

Add to that the interactions with Webber publicly have been perceived to sour and you have a perfect concoction of unrest and anger.

Whether it's well placed or not depends upon your opinion.

However, for the most part, as detailed, I believe the club is well run considering the financial limitations it is set up to run to. We have an academy producing talent for the first team - which includes identifying youth targets that can be developed further with us, whether that be for a season like Gibbs, or for longer.

We have a club that is also usually profitable and is prepared to cut it's cloth accordingly, haven been badly burnt in recent times when it hasn't. 

That's also a great basis for any takeover - as many people who have wanted a change in ownership have argued for a long time. "Why would anyone not want to take over a club that could do so much more with even a modest amount of investment?"

Success on the pitch, or lack of it, is something else though. That's the sporting side, and that's to do with the head coach as well as the sporting director. But again, aspects of that are right such as the academy, the training facilities and the much improved medical facilities.

It's tweaks. It may be that Webber has run his course and someone else needs to come in and pick up the baton and take it further. Much like a Jamaican relay team with Usain Bolt, perhaps Webber has run hard and has us in the top four, but you need Bolt to take the batten and push us into the medals(success)? 



 

We all accepted that first season of dire crap did we? 
 

Maybe you did but I’m sure many people didn’t just like myself I’m sure 

As usual you speak of the owners like they can do no wrong, but facts are facts, they appointed awful managers and also took us to the third tier for the first time in 50 years because of a couple of those awful appointments, and also we have been to the brink of administration under them too, as for well run club, as I stated I don’t think we are as we wouldn’t be in the **** again taking out loans that could cripple us because they have been too blinkered to seek outside investment before

[PurpleCanary 5,575]

On 25/04/2023 at 00:45, chicken said:

I am sort of glad he has given up his season ticket to be honest. I agree with @king canary - if you had stumbled across his twitter over the last five years, you'd note that his view was largely all negative. If he was also very vocal back in 2009, then we're back to a broken clock always being stuck...

Obviously people are welcome to their opinion, don't make the mistake that just because he wrote a column once that he actually has any real insight or is better informed etc than anyone else.

In fact, Purple has already highlighted that with the missing of the point that we have the roles he says we don't, already in the club, but he either doesn't understand the nuance in the changes, or he does and is trying to push for clamour to support him. IMHO he's more than a few times clearly tried to grab attention on twitter with outlandish stuff. This is as good as saying "why don't we appoint a manager, we haven't had a manager since Webber arrived" - ignoring that in this model, you have a head coach.

 

 

I have no opinion on Richard Balls and no idea what he says on social media, but I would make two points. It is easy to be negative, and often understandable, especially at the moment. But there is more use in trying to suggest ways a club can improve, as can be found on some threads here.

Secondly, it seems an odd time to give up a season ticket when it is distinctly possible the club will actually have a new regime in charge when we kick off again in August in the form of new owners.

[hogesar 9,709]

The best bit for me is he clearly thought just tweeting that he'd given up his season ticket wouldn't be enough attention for him so he also felt the need to take a picture of his season ticket, in case some of us didn't know what one looked like I assume 🙂

 

[Nuff Said 5,153]

On 25/04/2023 at 13:41, ridgeman said:

Whose desk will this land on oh yes Mrs Webber. Nuff said.

What?

[Leedscanary 345]

The aforementioned Ed Balls day is today!

 

[NewNestCarrow 202]

On 25/04/2023 at 18:55, TheBaldOne66 said:

We all accepted that first season of dire crap did we? 
 

Maybe you did but I’m sure many people didn’t just like myself I’m sure 

As usual you speak of the owners like they can do no wrong, but facts are facts, they appointed awful managers and also took us to the third tier for the first time in 50 years because of a couple of those awful appointments, and also we have been to the brink of administration under them too, as for well run club, as I stated I don’t think we are as we wouldn’t be in the **** again taking out loans that could cripple us because they have been too blinkered to seek outside investment before

So the Turners never happened?

[essex canary 501]

5 minutes ago, NewNestCarrow said:

So the Turners never happened?

It didn't turn out very well.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,289]

On 21/04/2023 at 14:50, Ulfotto said:

Yeah that’s all well enough but that doesn’t explain a failure to beat QPR, Rotherham or Huddersfield which would have put us comfortably in the playoffs 

Mad how easy it ‘should’ have been. 

[nutty nigel 7,555]

This didn't end well. They could have said something...

[hogesar 9,709]

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

This didn't end well. They could have said something...

They were going to announce it ages ago but realised if they kept it quiet for a bit longer they could get rid of him too...

[nutty nigel 7,555]

Anyone know what "no description available" means?

I can't remember if I was pleased or not...

Edited June 19, 2023 by nutty nigel
🤔🙃

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

On 25/04/2023 at 17:46, hogesar said:

No wonder you're so grumpy. You tapped out at the wrong time. We all had an absolute blast watching Farke's sides tear apart the entire division whilst you wallowed in self pity 🙂

 

This is the thing that genuinely baffles me. History shows that this club is a constant up and down rollercoaster. That's half the fun of following it in my view. It seems to me that there's a certain group of supporters that believe a string of good results 'must' mean we'll continue ever upwards (and will be outraged if this isn't the case) and a set that believe bad results 'must' mean we're destined for oblivion akin to billionaires sight-seeing at the wreck of the Titanic. I just can't fathom how they can persist in thinking like that.

[wcorkcanary 4,336]

40 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

This is the thing that genuinely baffles me. History shows that this club is a constant up and down rollercoaster. That's half the fun of following it in my view. It seems to me that there's a certain group of supporters that believe a string of good results 'must' mean we'll continue ever upwards (and will be outraged if this isn't the case) and a set that believe bad results 'must' mean we're destined for oblivion akin to billionaires sight-seeing at the wreck of the Titanic. I just can't fathom how they can persist in thinking like that.

Maybe you're  not as smart as you think then.