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Terminally Yellow

Here's what needs to happen this summer

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A comprehensive list of things that need to happen this summer IMO.

1. Change of ownership. Stability is going to be the key word. This needs to be a summer of change to allow a period of stability. The issue of ownership needs to be resolved. Either the Attanasios complete their take over or we see someone else. Delia and MWJ deserve to leave applauded out the front door. They are getting dangerously close to being chucked out the back. 

2. Change of leadership. Zoe and Stuart Webber have, in my view, reached the end of their tenure. Again, they should be remembered for the really great times they have brought about and the leveling up of club infrastructure. Leaving now secures a legacy and gives Stuart the chance to focus on what he wants to do. It gives us the chance to appoint a new chief executive and sporting director with experience who can help the Attanasios move this club forward and provide stability without the question of take over and investment looming over the next as it has this season.

3. Change of recruitment team and philosophy. The club has focused on the scouting and recruitment exclusively from underutilised markets. This has meant the German lower leagues and since Brexit, South America. This needs to change. Sara has taken 2/3rds of the season to bed in. Nunez has regressed since coming here. At the start of the season, I said we should sign Jed Wallace and John Swift on free transfers. While West Brom have had a poor season, both those players have more assists than anyone in our side who will be here next season (Swift and Pukki have 7 a piece). That's the sort of signing that we should have made.

The recruitment team put in its place needs to look at the work done by Brentford. There's plenty of articles and I'd encourage you to read them about how they use data in their recruitment. My limited understanding is we mix more traditional methods with data. They are almost entirely data led. This allows them less focus on individual areas and more focus on people. 

4. Change of head coach. I want to say I like Wagner. The things he says ring true to me, I think he's genuine and a decent guy. But his tactical approach was absolutely demolished in interview by Tony Mowbray. I don't think he has a plan B. And I don't think you can legitimately call for Webber to go without taking his appointment with him. I wouldn't be too unhappy if this particular suggestion didn't happen, but I think a comprehensive list should include this. Who do you get in his place? For me , I look at Middlesbrough and think this is exactly what we should do - someone young, up and coming.

5. Dismantle the current squad. Consider almost any offer for any player. Let everyone out of contract go. Onel is maybe the only exception but I think even he could be justifiably allowed to go. Aarons and Sara probably are the two assets we can sell to make a bit of money. Maybe £20m for the pair? The only player I wouldn't consider an offer for? Liam Gibbs. 

6. Ramp up the academy once again. Even with the Attanasios, this club is a small minnow financially even in the championship. Emphasis needs to continue on growing our own. Liam Gibbs needs to become the poster boy as an example of a player who has quickly grown into a first team regular after joining and using that example to attract the sort of talent that wants that path way open to them rather than sitting behind Chelsea's latest £500m worth of new players. Let's make this club an attractive prospect to players who want a career playing first team football, promising opportunity and reward for those who do well. 

7. We need to find the right loans again. A lot of you strangely don't like loans. We were absolutely destroyed yesterday by a team who have made the most of loans. Cameron Archer is exactly the sort of player you bring in. Young, hungry, has done well for a Preston side and now playing well for a side chasing promotion. Speaking of Preston, they've got a young lad in on loan from Everton in January called Thomas Cannon. 7 goals and 1 assist in 15. Fired them into the play off picture. That's what we need to be doing. Finding the right players ready to make that leap into the first team but not quite ready for the Premier League. We did it once with Olly Skipp. We must start doing it better next season. A team with a strong nucleus augmented with the right loans usually find themselves competing for the top spots in this league (Sheffield Utd, anyone?).

8. And most importantly we need to build this nucleus of a squad. Liam Gibbs for me has shown he can be part of that and given he needs to be front and center to ramp up the academy production. This nucleus must have the leadership qualities of a small number of experienced players. I suspect Hanley will be here even if he's unable to play for the rest of this calendar year. McLean too, given his new deal (which I wouldn't have given him, but here we are). But beyond that, I always felt Lambert got it spot on by giving opportunities to people who were perhaps more hungry for the chance than maybe technically capable. Nevertheless, these need to be players who can be the consistent nucleus of NCFC for the next four or five seasons. 

Anyways apologies for the wall of text and probably obvious observations but after paying £10 to watch that game yesterday and turning it off at half time I spent the second half stewing over what really has been a ****ing abomination of a couple of seasons.

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Some great thoughts there. If its any consolation I spent £2.50 on a radio commentary. There wasn't any just crowd noise. I knew though that Middlesbrough had scored after 7 minutes from the roar then looked on the app to see that it was Aaron Ramsey.

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Right, so get rid of the owners, get rid of the management, recruitment team, head coach and get rid of most of the players.  Nice one. Sounds like a recipe for relegation next season.

Need to keep some stability in there, somehow. A smooth change in the ownership, with the present owners staying on the board to ensure stability, allowing the proven at Huddersfield Webber/Wagner partnership a whole season, with a few new players capable of playing the Wagner way - and we might get somewhere. 

Dismantling the whole club is not the answer.

Edited by lake district canary
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Agree with most of that, especially Jed Wallace. Not sure I agree about loans. If you go up with a large number of them you end up spending all your money replacing what you already had. 

I couldn't agree more about South American players. We simply can't afford to wait 6 months for them to get over the shock. 

Most importantly, we must never sign another player with an injury record. 

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I agree with much of what you say, but I disagree about 20m for Aarons and Sara. I think we should do everything we can to hang on to Sara and make him the fulcrum of our team at least for one season, although if he turns out to be as good as I think he might be, we wouldn't be able to hang on to him for much longer. And if he has taken six months to adapt to English football, why sell him on the cheap now that he's adapted? The other midfielders around him wouldn't need to be brilliant, just solid, so that he can make errors at times - as creative players do - but with a good chance that the players around him will mop up any problems.

Regarding Wagner, he has to be given until at least the end of his twelve-month contract, I think. He has given us a handful of games in which we've looked decent and occasionally exciting, but I am starting to worry whether that was just the fillip of getting rid of Smith rather than anything Wagner is doing.

I'd add that we definitely need a new striker. Sargent is too hit and miss, as he showed yesterday when he fluffed two reasonably easy chances and then scored the difficult one, and Idah will never make it.

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8 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I agree with much of what you say, but I disagree about 20m for Aarons and Sara. I think we should do everything we can to hang on to Sara and make him the fulcrum of our team at least for one season, although if he turns out to be as good as I think he might be, we wouldn't be able to hang on to him for much longer. And if he has taken six months to adapt to English football, why sell him on the cheap now that he's adapted? The other midfielders around him wouldn't need to be brilliant, just solid, so that he can make errors at times - as creative players do - but with a good chance that the players around him will mop up any problems.

Regarding Wagner, he has to be given until at least the end of his twelve-month contract, I think. He has given us a handful of games in which we've looked decent and occasionally exciting, but I am starting to worry whether that was just the fillip of getting rid of Smith rather than anything Wagner is doing.

I'd add that we definitely need a new striker. Sargent is too hit and miss, as he showed yesterday when he fluffed two reasonably easy chances and then scored the difficult one, and Idah will never make it.

If Sky last night were to be believed in commentary we have no chance of keeping Sara ie he was being watched by a number of scouts. A bit like Emi once your head is turned, why would you want to stay ?

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Wagner is on a 12 mth rolling contract so there's no huge commitment from either party. 

Good OP though, agree with most of that. Attanasio doesn't have much skin in the game at the moment and until he does nothing changes and nothing moves forward.

It's absolutely imperative this is concluded as a matter of urgency, even if we somehow manage to blag promotion.

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53 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Right, so get rid of the owners, get rid of the management, recruitment team, head coach and get rid of most of the players.  Nice one. Sounds like a recipe for relegation next season.

Need to keep some stability in there, somehow. A smooth change in the ownership, with the present owners staying on the board to ensure stability, allowing the proven at Huddersfield Webber/Wagner partnership a whole season, with a few new players capable of playing the Wagner way - and we might get somewhere. 

Dismantling the whole club is not the answer.

God, you are a clown 🤣🤣

Just keep plodding along with the same garbage and relegation will happen ffs!

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56 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Right, so get rid of the owners, get rid of the management, recruitment team, head coach and get rid of most of the players.  Nice one. Sounds like a recipe for relegation next season.

Need to keep some stability in there, somehow. A smooth change in the ownership, with the present owners staying on the board to ensure stability, allowing the proven at Huddersfield Webber/Wagner partnership a whole season, with a few new players capable of playing the Wagner way - and we might get somewhere. 

Dismantling the whole club is not the answer.

The proven Webber/Wagner partnership!? Proven to fail so far this season. 
How on Earth can you fail to see that Webber has wasted all of our funds, largely? The squad is diabolical. This is a weak league this year and that’s the only reason we were around the top 6. But that dream is over - we’ll be 6 adrift by the time games in hand are dealt with. 
Webber has to go. He’s not up to the job. His contract should never have been extended. You’re a fool if you think otherwise. 
 

As for Wagner - we’ll have to reserve judgment. But the evidence isn’t great thus far. Albeit look what he’s working with. 

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Hurry up the takeover (if it’s happening) and remove Webber. Go all out to get Greg Broughton back if we can. 

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Dismantling the whole club is not the answer.

We did it once before when Webber first joined us. We were not relegated and achieved promotion in two and a half seasons. 

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43 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Agree with most of that, especially Jed Wallace. Not sure I agree about loans. If you go up with a large number of them you end up spending all your money replacing what you already had. 

I couldn't agree more about South American players. We simply can't afford to wait 6 months for them to get over the shock. 

Most importantly, we must never sign another player with an injury record. 

Point 3 is a huge contradiction. We have a very similar model to Brentford, using data and live scouting. It's how we found Buendia.

Brighton are a similar club who scout heavily in South America. They've had successes with Mac Allister (world cup winner), Estupinan and Caicedo, who is being linked with a big money move away.

Abandoning our overseas scouting projects would be a complete backwards move, leaving us to compete with the same journeymen like John Swift, who is a bang average championship player. 

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1 minute ago, Yellow and Green said:

Point 3 is a huge contradiction. We have a very similar model to Brentford, using data and live scouting. It's how we found Buendia.

Brighton are a similar club who scout heavily in South America. They've had successes with Mac Allister (world cup winner), Estupinan and Caicedo, who is being linked with a big money move away.

Abandoning our overseas scouting projects would be a complete backwards move, leaving us to compete with the same journeymen like John Swift, who is a bang average championship player. 

Emi Buendia was signed years ago. Since then, who has this miracle system brought to us that justifies continuing with the system we currently have? 

Sara? Half a season's return for our entire parachute payments seems a poor return for a side who harboured aspirations for an immediate return. If you're happy with that - enjoy your mid table mediocrity. 

If we had more of the "average championship journeymen" like John Swift (who fyi has had three permanent clubs in his career, hardly a "journeyman") who has scored more than any midfielder we have and assisted more than any of our players except Pukki, we might not find ourselves capitulating to teams like Middlesbrough and failing to score against Rotherham. 

But as I said - you continue to cling to your failed methods and enjoy mid table championship mediocrity.

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What a depressing read but oh so true in everything you say TY. What has become of our club in double quick time that such drastic action is required ?

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I think Gibbs and Sara and McLean with lungi around is a decent midfield for next season but not beyond (in terms of quality, and of sra.and Gibbs price progress we may have to go with that) I wonder if a loan for flynn downs may be possible, not much on game time at whu but may increase come rice pending move?

Tom Davies of Everton may be another, but wages may be a stumbling block. 

 

It's clear dm is needed. Probably fair to say we need defence too. Mountains of goals continuously slipped. When did we look last really solid? Not even under farke really. I get it's how we played and want to play but still, improvement needed in personal. Max surely will go, so hopefully 20m in funds to reinvest. 

As for suggestions, umm I out. No idea who may be available and good enough for this league, and able to step up and affordable. McCallum seems injury prone but decent. Sell dimi,.it's over, not good enough. Gibbo bench at best, sadly. Decent for this level but not.the gibbo of 14/15/16 at boro. Hanley crocked and doesn't cut the prem. So maybe like rob dickie of QPR would fit the mould of target but, pppffft, a gamble! 

Right back give bai and run with McCallum other side as wb rather than flat back four (which is how DW played at hudd's, with a cm dropping in - lungi/McClean maybe?

Happy for krul or gunn as no.1

 

Keep onel. Idah gets one more shot. Sgt an okay number two at this level ATM, and if gets better than excellent for us, but.at worst his engine and work rate for any season in the prem is useful.

 

Striker. God knows. The CF at cov? But everyone wants him. I'd imagine because of funds it has to be a loan to get required quality. But as to who (rather than a complete untried youngster on loan) is beyond me. Sam struffige from.forest and formerly Bournemouth but that depends on forests league of play next play. Aaron Connolly.who was a breakthrough at Brighton last year prehaps, unsure.whats happened to him this year bar being outstayed by Ferguson at bha. 

 

The complete other side of scale prehaps, Ashley Barnes if available maybe okay for a year or two, but I'd imagine finances too high and he isn't like exciting as such is it!

 

Happy to hear replies.and adds to this!

 

To next season lads! Otbc

 

Oh and Webber's out. Delia won't, so no point.

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1 hour ago, Terminally Yellow said:

We did it once before when Webber first joined us. We were not relegated and achieved promotion in two and a half seasons. 

We didn't get rid of the owners, we did it with them, not without them.

Edited by lake district canary

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Agree with the change in recruiting 100% I've been shouting from the rooftops for the past 3 seasons that we need to be looking closer to home for players - yes we all love it when we unearth a gem from no-where that no one has heard of (emi, Sara) and we all have loved the unbelievable free transfer turned hall of famer Teemu but how many times does that actually come off? 

We need to be looking at players who will be hungry and jump at the chance of playing for a club like ours.. just because players are currently in lower leagues doesn't mean they can't make the step up and work their Boll0cks off for the club. 

Johnson clarke-Harris at posh should have been brought in last summer, scored the same amount at Sarge/pukki in a relegated Peterborough in this league last year, why didn't we snap him up? 

I'm not saying ALL our recruitment should be like it, by all means try and bring in those 'gems' from no-where but don't litter the squad with them!! Bring in 2 or 3 from elsewhere, but look closer to home for the bulk of the recruiting! 

Edited by GodlyOtsemobor

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50 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Emi Buendia was signed years ago. Since then, who has this miracle system brought to us that justifies continuing with the system we currently have? 

Sara? Half a season's return for our entire parachute payments seems a poor return for a side who harboured aspirations for an immediate return. If you're happy with that - enjoy your mid table mediocrity. 

If we had more of the "average championship journeymen" like John Swift (who fyi has had three permanent clubs in his career, hardly a "journeyman") who has scored more than any midfielder we have and assisted more than any of our players except Pukki, we might not find ourselves capitulating to teams like Middlesbrough and failing to score against Rotherham. 

But as I said - you continue to cling to your failed methods and enjoy mid table championship mediocrity.

To be honest, we are using data but I don't think we're using it correctly. Webber has tried to make us into a stepping stone club, where we buy 'the next big thing' before they move on for megabucks. It's a great idea if it works (it hasn't) but it's not what we needed as a newly promoted club. Instead of buying raw talent that needed time to develop (like spunking 9 million on Tzolis), we needed someone who was going to be a rock for us week-in, week-out. 

You're contracting yourself by saying that we should stop looking for talent overseas and instead use data to find players like John Swift. You then cite Brentford, who are doing exactly the same thing as us, albeit with a lot more success. They have bought players from Italy, Scotland, Germany and France. Five of their players are from Denmark, which can easily be described as an 'underutilised market'.

If we restrict ourselves to just buying players from the UK, we're limiting ourselves to around 3000 players from the Championship to League 2. Maybe a few from the PL who are free and willing to take a pay cut. The UK market is overpriced because 91 teams are also competing for the same players.

If we look elsewhere (as well as the UK), we can find similar or better quality for a cheaper fee. 

If we had more players like John Swift and Jed Wallace then we'd probably find ourselves in 11th like West Brom, who incidentally lost 3-1 to Rotherham recently. 

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Just to confirm all we need to do is;

Change the owners

Change the Senior Leadership Team

Change the Manager

Change all our players

Magic players from the academy into Championship level first teamers.

Cool.

Edited by CDMullins

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Good OP.

3 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

1. Change of ownership. Stability is going to be the key word. This needs to be a summer of change to allow a period of stability. The issue of ownership needs to be resolved. Either the Attanasios complete their take over or we see someone else. Delia and MWJ deserve to leave applauded out the front door. They are getting dangerously close to being chucked out the back. 

I think I know what you mean by this, but having called for stability, you then go on to call for a lot of change. I completely agree that the ownership issue needs to be resolved. I think we would all feel more optimistic about the future with Attanasio in the door, regardless of where we stand on Delia and MWJ (and for what it's worth, I completely agree with your sentiments here).

None of the other changes you call for make any sense until the ownership issue is resolved.

 

3 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

2. Change of leadership. Zoe and Stuart Webber have, in my view, reached the end of their tenure.

I suspect this is true, especially of Stuart (I don't feel qualified to comment on Zoe's role). But I think we do have to remember that we as fans only see the tip of the iceberg, not what's below the surface. Certainly the Attanasios need to decide if they're the right people to take the club forward, and Stuart in particular needs to to reflect on the failure of the last two years and be very convincing that he's the right man to move the club forward on the playing side.

3 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

The recruitment team put in its place needs to look at the work done by Brentford. There's plenty of articles and I'd encourage you to read them about how they use data in their recruitment. My limited understanding is we mix more traditional methods with data. They are almost entirely data led. This allows them less focus on individual areas and more focus on people. 

As others have said, I'm not sure we're too far away from what Brentford are doing - and one of Attanasio's interviews suggested that this was a particular area where he felt he could make a difference, given his experience with the Brewers. It obviously remains to be seen whether he can translate success in the data-heavy sport of baseball into football, where raw data is always going to have its limitations because of the nature of the sport.

 

3 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

4. Change of head coach. I want to say I like Wagner. The things he says ring true to me, I think he's genuine and a decent guy. But his tactical approach was absolutely demolished in interview by Tony Mowbray. I don't think he has a plan B. And I don't think you can legitimately call for Webber to go without taking his appointment with him. I wouldn't be too unhappy if this particular suggestion didn't happen, but I think a comprehensive list should include this. Who do you get in his place? For me , I look at Middlesbrough and think this is exactly what we should do - someone young, up and coming.

As you imply, not sure this decision can be made until change has taken place in the boardroom and in the SD's office, if that's what's going to happen. I think it's almost impossible to judge Wagner given everything else that's going on. I think, like you, I'd be pretty relaxed either way about him being our coach next season - I think the other areas are more pressing.

 

3 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

5. Dismantle the current squad. Consider almost any offer for any player. Let everyone out of contract go. Onel is maybe the only exception but I think even he could be justifiably allowed to go. Aarons and Sara probably are the two assets we can sell to make a bit of money. Maybe £20m for the pair? The only player I wouldn't consider an offer for? Liam Gibbs. 

I think this is where I disagree with you the most. We definitely need an overhaul, but we also have a lot of good Championship players here, or we wouldn't still be in play-off contention in a season where we also have such obvious weaknesses. The challenge for the SD and head coach, whoever they are, is to identify how much 'churn' we need to change the mentality of the squad, which is such a disaster at the moment. I suspect for this to happen a few players need to leave, but I bet there are others who would have a new lease of life with some key additions (both in terms of position and character).

I really hope we can keep Sara for another year, both because I think he'll be even more influential next season, and also because he'll be worth even more at the end of next season as a result. But completely agree about Gibbs. I'm assuming Max will be off.

3 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

7. We need to find the right loans again.

Yes. But it's important that the loans improve the first XI. As I think you imply, we've had too many loans recently that haven't dramatically improved the best team we can put out, but have got in the way of our own players' development.

Thanks for the original post. Lots of food for thought. But it all starts at the top. Really hope we get positive news on that soon.

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2 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

It's absolutely imperative this is concluded as a matter of urgency, even if we somehow manage to blag promotion.

Yes. Especially if we somehow manage to blag promotion!

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3 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

At the start of the season, I said we should sign Jed Wallace and John Swift on free transfers. While West Brom have had a poor season, both those players have more assists than anyone in our side who will be here next season (Swift and Pukki have 7 a piece). That's the sort of signing that we should have made.

I don't think West Brom fans have been particularly impressed by either of them, especially Wallace.

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18 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Agree with the change in recruiting 100% I've been shouting from the rooftops for the past 3 seasons that we need to be looking closer to home for players - yes we all love it when we unearth a gem from no-where that no one has heard of (emi, Sara) and we all have loved the unbelievable free transfer turned hall of famer Teemu but how many times does that actually come off? 

Just remember that we have hits and misses for both UK and foreign players. For every Marcel Franke, there's a Ben Marshall. 

22 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

We need to be looking at players who will be hungry and jump at the chance of playing for a club like ours.. just because players are currently in lower leagues doesn't mean they can't make the step up and work their Boll0cks off for the club. 

I actually think there's something in this. We do seem to have more success with players who join our club looking to develop their career (Buendia) rather than coming 'down' to us from a big club to do us a favour (Naismith). The Lambert era was probably the best example of this, however I wonder how much of that was created by Lambert/Holt/Martin/Hoolahan culture.

25 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Johnson clarke-Harris at posh should have been brought in last summer, scored the same amount at Sarge/pukki in a relegated Peterborough in this league last year, why didn't we snap him up? 

We had Pukki, Sargent, Idah and Hugill, so we were pretty well stocked in the striker department. The focus was on central midfield, where we only had McLean and Sorenson. I'm not sure how much Gibbs was considered a first team option.  

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52 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Agree with the change in recruiting 100% I've been shouting from the rooftops for the past 3 seasons that we need to be looking closer to home for players - yes we all love it when we unearth a gem from no-where that no one has heard of (emi, Sara) and we all have loved the unbelievable free transfer turned hall of famer Teemu but how many times does that actually come off? 

We need to be looking at players who will be hungry and jump at the chance of playing for a club like ours.. just because players are currently in lower leagues doesn't mean they can't make the step up and work their Boll0cks off for the club. 

Johnson clarke-Harris at posh should have been brought in last summer, scored the same amount at Sarge/pukki in a relegated Peterborough in this league last year, why didn't we snap him up? 

I'm not saying ALL our recruitment should be like it, by all means try and bring in those 'gems' from no-where but don't litter the squad with them!! Bring in 2 or 3 from elsewhere, but look closer to home for the bulk of the recruiting! 

Because there's absolutely no way he'd have starter infront of 

Pukki

Sarge

Idah

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Attanasio has Delia and MWJ exactly where he wants them 

Club with no money in the champs only a few high value players left the value of the club is falling by the day 

if we went up had sky money and PL team the club would be worth a lot more 

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4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Dismantling the whole club is not the answer.

Webber dismantled large parts of a title-winning squad in the summer of 2021 and we’ve been on the slide ever since. Blowing what was for us a vast sum of money on garbage & loanees is why now, we’re in a position of scratching around desperately to find sellable assets to facilitate a squad rebuild. 

The Webber project has almost run its course and we’ve gone full circle. Time for a new era. 

 

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