Match of the day.. No more Lineker*

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Sanity prevails. Have to give credence to some of those I usually vehemently disagree with like Dan Hodges who consistently supported Linekers right to free speech throughout this debacle. The sheer duplicity coming from most of the #freespeech mob was nauseating throughout and showed their true colours.

People need to stop being so tribal about things and be more nuanced. It’s not just right vs left either. It’s a battle against extremism. Remember during Covid some wanted us to follow chinas path like it was an acceptable way to treat citizens. We need more trust back between government and its people so that we can work together making society a better place rather than just trying to subdue and control each other.

I really hope this is a turning point away from pandering to the creeping fascism that has plagued our country the last few years back to some more moderate attitudes. Lots of time between now and the next election though…

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

Only common-sense response eventually came through and Lineker was reinstated. But we shouldn't forget the grave government overreaction to this and vote them out at the next election.

Braverman is not fit for purpose.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Even post-Brexit, there are plenty of new Brits turning up here in France, most of them citing how overcrowded the UK seems as a reason for leaving.

But apparently there's a large chunk of the population who love the idea of letting anybody in. Presumably they let everybody into their house who knocks on the door and gives them a key to the front door while they're at it.

 

It’s not so much “letting everybody in”, more “giving everyone a fair chance of asylum so they don’t have to board a rubber dinghy in a desperate attempt to get here”. More resource is needed to address the problem at its route rather than this stupid dog whistling, insincere plan the government currently wish to pursue.

Like it or not, this issue isn’t going away so we need to work with our neighbouring countries to control things properly.

That way, when we do get immigrants that make it over, they make it over fairly, safely, fully documented and ready to make a positive contribution to the country rather than end up either dead in the ocean or falling into the black market underworld (drugs, slavery, prostitution) that plagues our society.

We have a skills shortage as it is so why not try turn this into a net gain for the country?

Edited March 13, 2023 by Tetteys Jig

[essex canary 508]

12 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Even post-Brexit, there are plenty of new Brits turning up here in France, most of them citing how overcrowded the UK seems as a reason for leaving.

But apparently there's a large chunk of the population who love the idea of letting anybody in. Presumably they let everybody into their house who knocks on the door and gives them a key to the front door while they're at it, so determined are they to only see the best in humanity.

 

How many immigrants has France got relative to England? Most sources suggest rather more. Of course they tend to place them in Tower blocks on the outskirts of town rather than rebuilding derelict villages which may be a good option.

At the end of the day English speaking people want to go to England and French-speaking to France.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

19 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

It’s not so much “letting everybody in”, more “giving everyone a fair chance of asylum so they don’t have to board a rubber dinghy in a desperate attempt to get here”. More resource is needed to address the problem at its route rather than this stupid dog whistling, insincere plan the government currently wish to pursue.

Like it or not, this issue isn’t going away so we need to work with our neighbouring countries to control things properly.

That way, when we do get immigrants that make it over, they make it over fairly, safely, fully documented and ready to make a positive contribution to the country rather than end up either dead in the ocean or falling into the black market underworld (drugs, slavery, prostitution) that plagues our society.

We have a skills shortage as it is so why not try turn this into a net gain for the country?

Reviewing applications and a normal appeal process in the domestic courts is giving people a fair chance; having the domestic process overruled on no specific grounds by international bodies other than stalling for lawyers to come up with more new arguments is effectively taking away choice from the state in who it accepts.

Our neighbouring countries don't want them either. France issues the highest number of deportation orders of any European country. What it doesn't do is enforce them. Where do they go I wonder?

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/opinion/article/2022/11/17/french-government-trapped-by-its-own-rhetoric-on-immigration_6004593_23.html

There's no evidence that any undocumented migrants bring any useful skills with them. Even if they do, they're effectively worthless without any equivalence in qualifications and no documentation to support skills. That said, we accept the vast majority anyway, so it seems a somewhat redundant point.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[canarydan23 4,067]

27 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Explain the irony of a typo in a pissing context about grammar and vocabulary.

Contest.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

Contest.

No answer then.

[Branston Pickle 3,710]

Cool - Lineker reinstated so this thread can end. Phew.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

Cool - Lineker reinstated so this thread can end. Phew.

I don't think it's the end of it. He has had that hypocrite Alistair Campbell laying into the BBC consistently for days, making sure that this will remain a massively polarising issue all the while Lineker remains in place.

[canarydan23 4,067]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

No answer then.

The irony is that you were attempting to make out that another poster is "easily confused" in a post that demonstrates you don't really know what you're talking about.

The typo was one source of amusement, but the fact that you're nitpicking about something that isn't actually incorrect added to it. I'm not sure I would have used a capital G, but there are some guides that will advise you to capitalise government when the word "the" precedes it (in fact, this is the advice given to civil servants; https://www.civilservant.org.uk/skills-notes_of_meetings.html).

And then you follow it up with some bizarre claim that most refer to a "personal agenda" as their "personal opinion". Which is just nonsense.

It was ironic (and amusing) that a terribly confused post was accusing someone else of being easily confused.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

18 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

The irony is that you were attempting to make out that another poster is "easily confused" in a post that demonstrates you don't really know what you're talking about.

The typo was one source of amusement, but the fact that you're nitpicking about something that isn't actually incorrect added to it. I'm not sure I would have used a capital G, but there are some guides that will advise you to capitalise government when the word "the" precedes it (in fact, this is the advice given to civil servants; https://www.civilservant.org.uk/skills-notes_of_meetings.html).

And then you follow it up with some bizarre claim that most refer to a "personal agenda" as their "personal opinion". Which is just nonsense.

It was ironic (and amusing) that a terribly confused post was accusing someone else of being easily confused.

There's nothing confused about what I posted. You're just talking rubbish. How does a typo demonstrate I don't know what I'm talking about?

Just one example of a BBC article referring to 'the government' rather than 'the Government' as you argue so ridiculously.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-64806466

You and Dylan are so typical of the sad saps that run out of ideas regarding an actual debate and reduce it to stupid arguments about spelling, grammar, and use of words.

Edit: On reflection, you're probably one of the few people who seems really interested in democratic reform to a proportional system, which kind of makes me think at some level you must like debate to be a bit more interesting than just a ad hominem slagging contest, but you seem to love this sort of rubbish. I can't get my head around it.

Edited March 13, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[......and Smith must score. 1,365]

3 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Hark back to the BBC's coverage of the World Cup and the first day in particular where the pundits spent the entire first 20 mins giving their views on why Qatar shouldn't be hosting it. There wasn't much impartiality then!

The BBC is a hypocritical relic.

Amusingly Lineker and company said all that then proceeded to take the BBC’s shilling by hosting the corporation’s coverage.

Something not quite right there…..

 

[......and Smith must score. 1,365]

23 hours ago, chicken said:

I'm just going to say it as it is... I cannot, for the life of me, understand why anyone watches match of the day if they don't like the analysis and punditry. If that's the case, why don't you watch highlights that are available through other sources long before 10:20 on a Saturday night?

Really baffles me. 

I suppose people could always mute that bit ( wink )

[chicken 2,659]

18 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Wrong. They've exhausted the appeals. That's why it's referred to as a final verdict. The delay gives time to try and think to new arguments against international law, not review all the arguments and decisions already made.

It's stalling for time, nothing more, which the ECHR supports again and again at more and more expense for the tax payer.

International law is treaties. Every country may leave treaties. There are consequences to that if we do that, but the vexatious use of this law to prevent expulsions just fuels the argument in favour of walking away as we're entitled to.

No, I'm not wrong. They are given time after each sentence - as in some cases, they have been here years by this point. The European Courts for Human Rights are there to ensure the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights are able to be robustly challenged and applied in Europe.

The UN Declaration of Human Rights was drawn up after WW2 for the reasons we very well know about. The courts that enforce it are neutral and impartial, deliberately, so that no one government can go down the route they are designed to prevent, again.

So yes, it is exceedingly worrying when our current government wishes to abandon that so they do not face the same challenges... though they will, because the UN has the International Court of Justice.

For what it's worth, the Declaration of Human Rights is very much the foundation of pretty much all of social services and healthcare. This is just one aspect of it.

And your wonderful exaggerations are incredibly amusing to read. Great to know you live in France so you are fantastically well placed to actually know what's going on. Even better that you are being joined by people with enough wealth to move there now it is more costly and more difficult. No doubt they will be the same type of people relying upon the same, poor and unreliable news outlets to give them the information they need. 

[The Real Buh 3,486]

 

All the “Sorry Sir, I forgot my PE kit again” people can get back on their containment board now and moan about hat Donald Trump had for breakfast or whatever it is you do on there.

Back to denying the amount of time you’ve wasted on Twitter has wrecked your life and shattered your mental health. Off you pop now lol

[spencer 1970 208]

On 12/03/2023 at 01:32, chicken said:

My step father was dyed in the wool Conservative. Was a party member the majority of his adult life, canvassed for them etc. He disliked the likes of Farage a great deal and knew what he was (though apparently we're not allowed to say because it'll cause offence). As did my grandparents. In fact, the vast majority of their generation did, Farage didn't get even a toehold until the war generation started to fade away until there were such small numbers living memory of that era was all but gone.

Why are so many of the current cabinet ministers either entered politics in the last 10yrs or have previously been back benchers, not trusted by what was the core of the conservative party membership?

If people really want to get angry, rather than quibble over £4m that the HMRC are desperately trying to prove Lineker actually owes, and take a look at articles like this.
 

That's over one billion pounds in two years (£300m in 2020 and £800m in 2021). That's not including whatever else they are doing now.

Sure, they took advantage of a scheme, so not exactly breaking laws or anything... but... 

No tax. Zero. Nothing. Fair? Not remotely really is it?

Very informative Chicken. A crying shame too. These so-called Tories (this is a new breed imo) have got nothing left to go on, so are concentrating fully on division. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

3 minutes ago, chicken said:

No, I'm not wrong. They are given time after each sentence - as in some cases, they have been here years by this point. The European Courts for Human Rights are there to ensure the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights are able to be robustly challenged and applied in Europe.

The UN Declaration of Human Rights was drawn up after WW2 for the reasons we very well know about. The courts that enforce it are neutral and impartial, deliberately, so that no one government can go down the route they are designed to prevent, again.

So yes, it is exceedingly worrying when our current government wishes to abandon that so they do not face the same challenges... though they will, because the UN has the International Court of Justice.

For what it's worth, the Declaration of Human Rights is very much the foundation of pretty much all of social services and healthcare. This is just one aspect of it.

And your wonderful exaggerations are incredibly amusing to read. Great to know you live in France so you are fantastically well placed to actually know what's going on. Even better that you are being joined by people with enough wealth to move there now it is more costly and more difficult. No doubt they will be the same type of people relying upon the same, poor and unreliable news outlets to give them the information they need. 

The UK asylum system costs the UK £1.5 billion a year. We're housing 37,000 destitute migrants at £4.7million a day.

The government has done what it can to ensure that people can be removed from the UK who have failed to apply without actually leaving the ECHR and/or UN convention on refugees.

You're now accusing me of exagerrations: Specify what exactly I'm supposedly exagerrating and how, quoting me where I've done so.

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

2 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said:

Very informative Chicken. A crying shame too. These so-called Tories (this is a new breed imo) have got nothing left to go on, so are concentrating fully on division. 

Exactly. The likes of Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Rory Stewart, Kenneth Clarke, John Major (granted, he wasn't a great PM, but over time I think he's amply demonstrated that he's hardly to be confused with the likes of Rees-Mogg and IDS)... they're cut from a different cloth than this current set of opportunists.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

10 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said:

Very informative Chicken. A crying shame too. These so-called Tories (this is a new breed imo) have got nothing left to go on, so are concentrating fully on division. 

There's a distinction to be made between conservatives and Conservatives. Any society always has a very large minority of conservatives who favour the status quo and tend to view calls for change with a critical eye. Similarly, wanting proper border control and ensuring that those who come in can be a constructive part of society is a legitimate standpoint. It's the degree of contempt with which so-called progressives treat conservative viewpoints that does so much to polarise discussion; ironically, progressive campaigns shoot themselves in the foot again and again by doing so.

Edited March 13, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Midlands Yellow 4,114]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Only common-sense response eventually came through and Lineker was reinstated. But we shouldn't forget the grave government overreaction to this and vote them out at the next election.

Braverman is not fit for purpose.

The most despised government ever perhaps, I hope the Tory party self destructs after being voted out in the next election. 

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

The most despised government ever perhaps, I hope the Tory party self destructs after being voted out in the next election. 

Meh, political parties will always evolve, listen (well, sorta) and regain ground. Everyone thought they were toast when Blair got in. If anything, history is repeating itself. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

The most despised government ever perhaps, I hope the Tory party self destructs after being voted out in the next election. 

It won't. In fact, Labour's determination to keep the existing electoral system will ensure that when the public loses confidence in the next Labour government, it will be the Conservatives who are back in government again.

[Mello Yello 2,306]

2 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Of course it has, by the Tory government. There's a really depressing Budget statement coming up this week and they need everyone to focus elsewhere. Hunt got such an easy ride from Kuennsberg yesterday - job done!

Yeah....roll on the next GE and the advent of a UK Utopia.....

[Mello Yello 2,306]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Not everyone in this country is venal and self serving. Not yet anyway. 

Lineker is as pure as the driven snow.....

[Herman 9,842]

6 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Bravermann isn't using divisive words that echo 1930s Germany. 

 

[Mello Yello 2,306]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,836]

Over 20 pages? Blimey, can we get to 40? 🤣

[C.I.D 310]

18 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Over 20 pages? Blimey, can we get to 40? 🤣

Not until a link from the Gruaniad appears ...........purely for the interests of balance and impartiality 🙄

Edited March 13, 2023 by C.I.D

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 hours ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Amusingly Lineker and company said all that then proceeded to take the BBC’s shilling by hosting the corporation’s coverage.

Something not quite right there…..

And happily played in a country which has the death penalty and 60 odd people on death row when he was there... Japan.

[Mello Yello 2,306]

Gary signals with virtue....