Michael Bailey - "Wagner 1 of 4 shortlisted""

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

Just now, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

If this process has happened..and it turned out to be Wagner who Webber previously appointed at Huddersfield it would be a "lucky coincidence"...

That would be no coincidence. Going to somebody who you've had past success with in comparable circumstances would be a reasonable idea.

[Newtopia 519]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That seems reasonable. What grounds are there  to believe this hasn't happened either now or any other past managerial appointment?

I suspect it has, if you started from scratch the recruitment would take months.  Sometimes even the most well considered appointment goes wrong.  I think last time Webber wanted Lampard, whilst Frank was interested he just thought a better opportunity would come along later.  Whilst DS probably was desperate to get straight back into action.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

7 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

I suspect it has, if you started from scratch the recruitment would take months.  Sometimes even the most well considered appointment goes wrong.  I think last time Webber wanted Lampard, whilst Frank was interested he just thought a better opportunity would come along later.  Whilst DS probably was desperate to get straight back into action.

Don't you think it's almost inevitable that Smith would have been on the club's monitoring as an employed Premier League manager at the time they would be maintaining these lists before Farke's sacking?

Incidentally, Smith had announced on his sacking at Villa that he was going to take time out of management, which shows the club must have approached him and he changed his mind.

Edited January 1, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Branston Pickle 3,690]

4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That would be no coincidence. Going to somebody who you've had past success with in comparable circumstances would be a reasonable idea.

Quite so - knowing how each other works from a successful spell together elsewhere would surely only be beneficial rather than a negative.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That would be no coincidence. Going to somebody who you've had past success with in comparable circumstances would be a reasonable idea.

I'm not averse to the idea of Wagner...certainly compared to some of the names mentioned.

I only realised he was of out work of a couple of days ago..and knowing that it would then seem logical that he would be a favourite given Webber's previous links.

However ,it does still feel slightly 'convenient' and hurried. Is he really the best man out there?..or the most straightfoward old pals act?

[Newtopia 519]

10 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Don't you think it's almost inevitable that Smith would have been on the club's monitoring as an employed Premier League manager at the time they would be maintaining these lists before Farke's sacking?

Incidentally, Smith had announced on his sacking at Villa that he was going to take time out of management, which shows the club must have approached him and he changed his mind.

I reckon he was on our radar, he did a good job at Brentford and Villa.  Then when Villa pulled the trigger as they wanted a ‘bigger’ name, the club moved, and DS was probably left with a decision to make, knowing we would fill it another way if he did not want it.  I genuinely think if he had not come then, he would be on the list this time, he would be given a different remit and possible one he could shape himself, that could have gone differently.

[BigGrantsTash 70]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

Parker wasn't a target for us.

Can you prove that/show a source?

[PockthorpePete 331]

Wagner does not seem to have set the world alight since being sacked by Huddersfield. Maybe though it is more about replacing the jigsaw piece that did not fit (Smith), with one that does (Wagner), thatn appointing a 'good' manager.

Appointing someone to run things as required, rather than having a 'new broom' who would want a huge amount changed. If it is that case then Wagner would be the best choice/fit.

[Petriix 2,853]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

We're not Real Madrid or Man City. If we change managers mid-season then the only people who will be interested are well-known figures with a track record like Smith, Redknapp, etc. who happen to be unemployed and willing, or people we've never heard of where it's a big step up.

And whatever preparation for recruitment or discussions the club there may have been, there's no way we'll ever know about it any more than when Farke, Smith, or any other manager was appointed.

That would put us in the top 10 (which is very clearly not what I was suggesting). Your attempt at a counter-argument is a total non-sequitur as usual which is why I think you're arguing for the sake of it rather than genuinely having a rational debate. 

[lake district canary 4,546]

15 minutes ago, PockthorpePete said:

Wagner does not seem to have set the world alight since being sacked by Huddersfield. Maybe though it is more about replacing the jigsaw piece that did not fit (Smith), with one that does (Wagner), thatn appointing a 'good' manager.

Appointing someone to run things as required, rather than having a 'new broom' who would want a huge amount changed. If it is that case then Wagner would be the best choice/fit.

This makes sense.  To my mind Smith wanted to play in a similar way to the  way we are used to - at the same time adding a bit of steel to our defensive play.....but all he did was water down what we were used to doing, the intensity dropped and we were left looking bereft of ideas.

Wagner is in a similar mould to Farke, not identical, but of similar mindset and could reignite the flame, get us playing with the right intensity to play the game that is required - and get everyone moving in the same direction, including fans.  Smith was not a good fit, he had no idea how to get the best out of the players and didn't engage with fans from day one, which was a mistake. Wagner is more savvy about that kind of thing and it would be a breath of fresh air to have someone like him as coach - there will be a lot more positivity around with him in charge.

Edited January 1, 2023 by lake district canary

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

9 minutes ago, Petriix said:

That would put us in the top 10 (which is very clearly not what I was suggesting). Your attempt at a counter-argument is a total non-sequitur as usual which is why I think you're arguing for the sake of it rather than genuinely having a rational debate. 

And the usual switch to a dismissal and ad hominem criticism is the usual response in the absence of anything useful to argue.

My point is if we say 'jump', prospective managers don't necessarily say 'how high' like you seem to think. Ask Frank Lampard.

And that was when we were in the Premier League.

Edited January 1, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[It's Character Forming 1,166]

8 minutes ago, Petriix said:

That would put us in the top 10 (which is very clearly not what I was suggesting). Your attempt at a counter-argument is a total non-sequitur as usual which is why I think you're arguing for the sake of it rather than genuinely having a rational debate. 

I think you’re on to something here @Petriix😏

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

2 hours ago, Petriix said:

So how many more attractive managerial posts do you think there are in football? 200? 500?

And how many competent managers do you think there are out there? 

Depends if you’re counting international jobs too? 

[Nexus_Canary 1,027]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

All plans fail at first contact with the enemy.

Smith is respected and liked in the game everywhere but Norwich and he got at best indifference from fans even when we were top of the league, and an atmosphere so toxic at the end that he kept his family away.

Til pointed out a sarcastic response by Webber about clapping fans regarding appointment of a new manager that underlines to me that the board acted because the fans would never accept Smith and the atmosphere was destroying morale; not because they thought he wasn't a competent professional.

I can't see a competent manager wanting the job any time soon.

This old bollokcs again.

Give it a rest.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Nexus_Canary

[wcorkcanary 4,341]

1 minute ago, Nexus_Canary said:

This old bollokcs again.

Give it a rest.

Guys stuck in a loop.  I think he might be a little insane tbh.

[Nexus_Canary 1,027]

1 hour ago, Newtopia said:

I reckon he was on our radar, he did a good job at Brentford and Villa.  Then when Villa pulled the trigger as they wanted a ‘bigger’ name, the club moved, and DS was probably left with a decision to make, knowing we would fill it another way if he did not want it.  I genuinely think if he had not come then, he would be on the list this time, he would be given a different remit and possible one he could shape himself, that could have gone differently.

Nope we missed our man, Stuart Webber shat his pants Smith was on the rebound and we gambled.

It failed. Never once was he in the frame for the job until we were turned down. Fact.

[Nexus_Canary 1,027]

4 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Knutson turned down brighton so why on earth would he come here?

Well I'd say we are actually a better prospect than Brighton.

They are punching and will be in the champ within 5 years tops.

They are in the best spell they will ever have and only have one way to go, down.

If Knutson went there unrealistic expectations would be really high.

Sure we are a bit of a joke yo-yo club and that makes us less desirable.

But... We can only go up, we have one of the best youth set ups in the country and could be seen as a sleeping giant.

Too get up and stay up is a challenge.

I think Knutson will stay in Norway and I'm pretty sure we won't approach as we have already been turned down when we fired farke or around that time.

But, I would say we are a sexier prospect than Brighton by quite a margin.

[PockthorpePete 331]

38 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

This makes sense.  To my mind Smith wanted to play in a similar way to the  way we are used to - at the same time adding a bit of steel to our defensive play.....but all he did was water down what we were used to doing, the intensity dropped and we were left looking bereft of ideas.

Wagner is in a similar mould to Farke, not identical, but of similar mindset and could reignite the flame, get us playing with the right intensity to play the game that is required - and get everyone moving in the same direction, including fans.  Smith was not a good fit, he had no idea how to get the best out of the players and didn't engage with fans from day one, which was a mistake. Wagner is more savvy about that kind of thing and it would be a breath of fresh air to have someone like him as coach - there will be a lot more positivity around with him in charge.

I think the imperative is to get in someone who will fit. The ethos now is in having a similar playing style running through the club (u18/u23) where players a prepared for eventual ist team play. That means working to the dame coaching style, and training methods. How much of that would a new manager be prepared to accept/work to ?

Having worked with Webber before Wagner will now what is exoected of him, what part in the club he will play and what the aim of the club is. Iyt is for those reasons I suspect he will be our next manager. Whether that is the right idea or whether he will work is another matter. But if the system is to stay then it needs someone who is used to it.

[Coneys Knee 990]

8 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Well I'd say we are actually a better prospect than Brighton.

They are punching and will be in the champ within 5 years tops.

They are in the best spell they will ever have and only have one way to go, down.

If Knutson went there unrealistic expectations would be really high.

Sure we are a bit of a joke yo-yo club and that makes us less desirable.

But... We can only go up, we have one of the best youth set ups in the country and could be seen as a sleeping giant.

Too get up and stay up is a challenge.

I think Knutson will stay in Norway and I'm pretty sure we won't approach as we have already been turned down when we fired farke or around that time.

But, I would say we are a sexier prospect than Brighton by quite a margin.

Good point, it’s always best to take on a challenge when the club is at a low ebb than to take on a club that is riding high. Just ask Dean smith - he had huge boots to fill after Farke despite our position in the league. Another case in point - David moyes following on from Alex Ferguson.

Realistically, the only way is down for Brighton right now. With us, you’d like to think the only way is up.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I'm not averse to the idea of Wagner...certainly compared to some of the names mentioned.

I only realised he was of out work of a couple of days ago..and knowing that it would then seem logical that he would be a favourite given Webber's previous links.

However ,it does still feel slightly 'convenient' and hurried. Is he really the best man out there?..or the most straightfoward old pals act?

We don't know even if Wagner is actually the favourite. It's all speculation and guesswork based on who's unemployed at the moment.

It all supports the suggestion that this move has been caving in to persistent fan refusal to cut Smith any slack at any point during the season. This is backed up by Webber's ironic remark to a steward asking whether a prospective replacement would clap the fans enough to be accepted.

Be careful what you wish for.

Edited January 1, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Payno10 51]

4 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

so you wouldn't ask him ?

better to ask and get turned down than not even ask the question ?

first rule of Nightclubs when i was 17 !!! 

 

Best rule, keeping asking until you get a yes! 😂😂

[yellowrider120 790]

25 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Well I'd say we are actually a better prospect than Brighton.

They are punching and will be in the champ within 5 years tops.

They are in the best spell they will ever have and only have one way to go, down.

If Knutson went there unrealistic expectations would be really high.

Sure we are a bit of a joke yo-yo club and that makes us less desirable.

But... We can only go up, we have one of the best youth set ups in the country and could be seen as a sleeping giant.

Too get up and stay up is a challenge.

I think Knutson will stay in Norway and I'm pretty sure we won't approach as we have already been turned down when we fired farke or around that time.

But, I would say we are a sexier prospect than Brighton by quite a margin.

How many years have Brighton been in the PL and look where they are now in the table! Something we have never, ever looked remotely like achieving (other than the initial PL season with Lambert).  As for NCF being.............'could be seen as a sleeping giant' that is puffing up your own club way beyond the bounds of reasonableness. 

If you want real examples of 'sleeping giants' then I'd offer up Aston Villa, Newcastle (now awoken from a decades long slumber), Sunderland and Everton off the top of my head. NCFC  are a 'mid/top' Championship club who make a foray every now and again into the top league but then collapse back down again PDQ! We are on a par with the likes of Fulham and WBA in that respect and if we are 'sleeping giants' then they most certainly are as well surely?  

[hogesar 9,757]

There isn't a manager in the world who is turning down the opportunity to manage in England for the first time in Brighton, who have a solid Premier League squad, foundations and an owner who will spend Premier League level money,  for play-off championship hopeful Norwich. Let's take those yellow and green glasses off and that's coming from optimistic me!

[Captain Holt 522]

54 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Well I'd say we are actually a better prospect than Brighton.

They are punching and will be in the champ within 5 years tops.

They are in the best spell they will ever have and only have one way to go, down.

If Knutson went there unrealistic expectations would be really high.

Sure we are a bit of a joke yo-yo club and that makes us less desirable.

But... We can only go up, we have one of the best youth set ups in the country and could be seen as a sleeping giant.

Too get up and stay up is a challenge.

I think Knutson will stay in Norway and I'm pretty sure we won't approach as we have already been turned down when we fired farke or around that time.

But, I would say we are a sexier prospect than Brighton by quite a margin.

Absolute tosh I'm afraid.

[Essjayess 307]

7 minutes ago, Coneys Knee said:

Good point, it’s always best to take on a challenge when the club is at a low ebb than to take on a club that is riding high. Just ask Dean smith - he had huge boots to fill after Farke despite our position in the league. Another case in point - David moyes following on from Alex Ferguson.

Realistically, the only way is down for Brighton right now. With us, you’d like to think the only way is up.

 

We may be at a low ebb right now compared to say a couple years ago..but yea..the only way for us  now is up is just a thought..and nothing more. We have as much chance...actually a bit more than that right now...to dabble with the bottom 6 than the top 6 in this league given the  amount of points we are not picking up.

Whoever the new guy is that comes in...his term of contract will be most interesting. If it is to be a 3 or4 year contract then the changes at the club...as much off the pitch as on it, could well be and likely will be huge. We know Delia and hubby will depart at some point and presumably Attanasio will become the major guy but we have zero idea of how much investment will be available to the club.

As it is the last  few seasons must have been torture for the people involved with the finances of this club, the difference between Prem and Champs is massive and even allowing for parachute payments its hard enough for a rich yo yo club like Fulham..who have had vastly more investment than City to enjoy...to become a stable club, but with our against the tide  self funding model...well, its a wonder we are even in the place we are right now...and its nowhere near  being stable.

The new appointment may well have a better chance at getting our current crop of players to be more cohesive and play better and grab more points...and boy do we need that, having a squad to compete well enough in the Champs is the first priority...but finding a squad not only to compete well now but to compete in the league above us..well that feels and likely is a million miles away right now. DF could not handle it and i doubt any new manager / head coach could either...until we head into uncharted waters, which surely may well be within a 3 or 4 year contracted period given to a new guy coming in.

As Mr. Bowie once sang..Turn and face the strange ch-ch-changes.

[Newtopia 519]

57 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Well I'd say we are actually a better prospect than Brighton.

They are punching and will be in the champ within 5 years tops.

They are in the best spell they will ever have and only have one way to go, down.

If Knutson went there unrealistic expectations would be really high.

Sure we are a bit of a joke yo-yo club and that makes us less desirable.

But... We can only go up, we have one of the best youth set ups in the country and could be seen as a sleeping giant.

Too get up and stay up is a challenge.

I think Knutson will stay in Norway and I'm pretty sure we won't approach as we have already been turned down when we fired farke or around that time.

But, I would say we are a sexier prospect than Brighton by quite a margin.

I would check the comparable stadium capacity, budget, and clear leadership at board level.

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,027]

As mentioned, chat to David Moyse, Dean Smith, Paul Lambert  and countless others about joining a team with expectations. 

Blow your rep in 12 months. 

[BigFish 1,988]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Yes, but I expect that there will be a lot of outgoings at the end of the season - contracts not renewed etc. I forget the number who are out of contract but it is quite a large number and I'm sure that we would like to shift others e.g Giannoulis and probably Krul.

Edit - found it. I doubt that we will keep more than one or two of the following + possibly none.

 

 

Interesting list, with the sad exception of Pukki I don't think the depature of any of these actually weakens the team.

[Newtopia 519]

2 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Interesting list, with the sad exception of Pukki I don't think the depature of any of these actually weakens the team.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see McGovern, and Hayden here next season.  Would love to see Teemu, but his body language screams let me out of here.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

55 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

We don't know even if Wagner is actually the favourite. It's all speculation and guesswork based on who's unemployed at the moment.

It all supports the suggestion that this move has been caving in to persistent fan refusal to cut Smith any slack at any point during the season. This is backed up by Webber's ironic remark to a steward asking whether a prospective replacement would clap the fans enough to be accepted.

Be careful what you wish for.

It would be a weak sporting director to sack a manager purely off the back of that 'if' he believed Smith was still the right man for the job

You'll note that there wasnt a single public vote of confidence for him from the board in the week prior to his dismissal despite ample opportunity to do so

Edited January 1, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary