Ricardo's report The AGM 2022

[TIL 1010 5,159]

Michael Bailey checked in at the same time as me at the shareholder registration desk so i wonder what he made of it all surrounding the media and club stand off.

Edited November 11, 2022 by TIL 1010

[nutty nigel 7,870]

40 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

Looking at the official photos of the AGM, the audience does look a little like God's waiting room.

The 'audience' are the shareholders. The only way that can be changed is if younger people buy shares. 

[MrFruit 28]

3 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

The 'audience' are the shareholders. The only way that can be changed is if younger people buy shares. 

Getting more difficult to buy shares because Canaries Trust buying them up?

[Norfolk Dan 335]

7 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

The 'audience' are the shareholders. The only way that can be changed is if younger people buy shares. 

Got some for sale ? 

[PurpleCanary 6,276]

7 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Correct me if i am wrong but didn't Zoe Webber state that she had attempted to make contact with the editor of the EDP/EEN but has not received a response ?

As I understand it a senior figure at Carrow Road talked to the then editor at the time of Attanasiogate in an attempt to kill the story but was quite rightly rebuffed. Which was not taken at all well.

There may have been an attempt later on by Zoe Webber to discuss the question of supposedly negative coverage that was not replied to. However Davitt is on record as saying that they have made at least three attempts to make peace with the club and move on but they have all been rejected.

Given what I believe is the false accusation of a breach of trust, and other factors, in general I place more reliance on what Davitt says is the position than on anything from the club on this subject.

[(Northern) Irish Canary 48]

17 minutes ago, Norfolk Dan said:

Got some for sale ? 

I received an email from the Trust on Tuesday offering me some for sale. Small number available, sold to the highest bidder.

[Mello Yello 2,538]

9 hours ago, ricardo said:

Good man. He sat just in front of me.

Ricky, I do hope that it wasn't in the outside bog whilst he was reading the EDP by candlelight?....

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,437]

I think that there were 3 notable sets of comments made by Zoe, Stuart and and Mark Attanasio, that all indicate something of the past, the present and the future.

Zoe was surprisingly honest - perhaps a little put on the spot by Tom? (Which seems strange with pre-submitted questions) - when asked about whether the introduction and involvement of Mark Attanasio was an acceptance that the ceiling of the current self-sustaining model had been reached. 

She stated really quite clearly that there was now a more than tacit acceptance that Premier clubs  had basically all moved away from us. Not just those at the top end, but the vast body of the Premier. That our finances simply could not compete.

This is honest, clearly the case, though of course at considerable odds with the mission statement that runs right through the core of the Annual Report 2022 and the club’s stated aim. The Premier aim is the point of everything according to that document. 

Stuart initially responded very spikily and defensively to the question on whether the recruitment was not fit for purpose at the top level. Whilst initially defensive - talking of how the signing may yet come good - he then wisely ‘owned’ the mistakes, saying how difficult it was to sign ready-made Premier level players with our budget, honestly said the failings were ‘on him’ and that his role is to protect others. He got a round of applause for this (which I joined in on), though I couldn’t help but wonder if perhaps Daniel Farke’s agent didn’t clap quite so loudly. He might well argue that it was Daniel that ‘owned’ the unsuitable recruitment. 

Mark Attanasio spoke well. The detail of what he said was interesting and - in my view - at huge counterpoint to the style and content others used and have used in the past. 

He said very clearly ‘it is not about training grounds’ and that ‘the fans don’t want to hear about that’ . He repeated on 3 or four occasions that it was ‘about winning’ …‘about winning football’ …’winning’.

I thought the obvious follow up to the Sporting model failure question was to ask Mark Attanasio directly whether his initial investment and indicated ‘period of internal due diligence’ (my words) was a pre-cursor to a full takeover. He had made quite an effort to be there and might well have been keen to talk.

Parma

post script: sorry I missed you @nutty nigel, had other directors with me and they had to shoot off

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Mason 47 1,855]

The local media thing is a bit of a pantomime but I have to say I can understand it from the clubs perspective.

The press is meant to be an independent voice, sure, but there's always IMO been an unofficial partnership/ understanding with the local guys as part of the 'ecosystem' of the club (particularly prevalent in the first 3 years or so of Farke). This is in stark contrast with directly calling Webber out with ridiculous sensational headlines, and the breaking & subsequent self-congratulation RE the Attanasio story in direct opposition to club wishes. 

Massive crimes? Not really, I can't think that having a 15-person delegation or whatever it was at the Spurs game was done without being aware someone might clock it. But, as has been said above 'we do things differently at Norwich'. The local press forewent this traditional understanding and acted in their own interests (as has been more evident since Pinkun+) like any other  unassociated news outlet. So the club treats them now as any other news outlet.

Sounds however like in general the AGM went fairly pleasantly. Can't help but wonder if it was a few weeks earlier...

[Badger 2,743]

10 hours ago, ricardo said:

Yes Zoe got it wrong, I remember managers always being there in recent times (this century)

Yes but it hinges on the definition of "normal:" apparently what is considered "normal for Norfolk" isn't considered normal elsewhere! 😀

Thanks for the report Ricardo. 👍

[PurpleCanary 6,276]

20 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I think that there were 3 notable sets of comments made by Zoe, Stuart and and Mark Attanasio, that all indicate something of the past, the present and the future.

Zoe was surprisingly honest - perhaps a little out on the spot by Tom? (Which seems strange with pre-submitted questions) - when asked about whether the introduction and involvement of Mark Attanasio was an acceptance that the ceiling of the current self-sustaining model had been reached. 

She stated really quite clearly that there wa now a more than tacit acceptance that Premier clubs  had basically all moved away from us. Not just those at the top end, but the vast body of the Premier. That our finances simply could not compete.

This is honest, clearly the case, though of course at considerable odds with the mission statement that runs right through the core of the Annual Report 2022 and the club’s stated aim. The Premier aim is the point of everything according to that document. 

Stuart initially responded very spikily and defensively to the question on whether the recruitment was not fit for purpose at the top level. Whilst initially defensive - talking of how the signing may yet come good - he then wisely ‘owned’ the mistakes, saying how difficult it was to sign ready-made Premier level players with our budget, honestly said the failings were ‘on him’ and that his role is to protect others. He got a round of applause for this (which I joined in on), though I couldn’t help but wonder if perhaps Daniel Farke’s agent didn’t clap quite so loudly. 

Mark Attanasio spoke well. The detail of what he said was interesting and - in my view - at huge counterpoint to the style and content others used and have used in the past. 

He said very clearly ‘it is not about training grounds’ and that ‘the fans don’t want to hear about that’ . He repeated on 3 or four occasions that it was ‘about winning’ …‘about winning football’ …’winning’.

I thought the obvious follow up to the Sporting model failure question was to ask Mark Attanasio directly whether his initial investment and indicated ‘period of internal due diligence’ (my words) was a pre-cursor to a full takeover. He had made quite an effort to be there and might well have been keen to talk.

Parma

post script: sorry I missed you @nutty nigel, had other directors with me and they had to shoot off

 

I am reading this book by a Guardian writer who is a complete amateur at chess but tries to improve, and flies off to the US to play in some tournaments. At Immigration he is asked whether he expects to win and says he he doesn't expect to win enough to make any money. Comes the crushing retort: "Well you certainly won't win anything if you have that attitude." Welcome to America! That said, if Attanasio does end up taking over I would over time expect some expenditure on infrastructure.

[GMF 977]

1 hour ago, (Northern) Irish Canary said:

I received an email from the Trust on Tuesday offering me some for sale. Small number available, sold to the highest bidder.

I never thought that I’d live to see the day where the Trust was accused of buying too many shares, but, ho hum.

Just for the record, when a share holder approaches us, expressing their interest in selling, we always give them three options.

First, find someone themselves to sell their shares to. Second, list them on our website, as we have a lengthy list of potential buyers. Third, we indicate that we are prepared to make them an offer.

The recent seller actually opted to list their shares on our website and we also sent emails to various people who’d recently expressed an interest in acquiring shares.

All offers received, and there were quite a few, were forwarded to the vendor, who actually didn’t go for the highest bidder, which is, of course, entirely their prerogative.

[TIL 1010 5,159]

2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

As I understand it a senior figure at Carrow Road talked to the then editor at the time of Attanasiogate in an attempt to kill the story but was quite rightly rebuffed. Which was not taken at all well.

There may have been an attempt later on by Zoe Webber to discuss the question of supposedly negative coverage that was not replied to. However Davitt is on record as saying that they have made at least three attempts to make peace with the club and move on but they have all been rejected.

Given what I believe is the false accusation of a breach of trust, and other factors, in general I place more reliance on what Davitt says is the position than on anything from the club on this subject.

To be clear i am not suggesting that i took her word for it last night but that was her claim.

[Capt. Pants 4,882]

Well done and thanks to the Pinkun massive for reporting on last night's AGM. The club's write-up on the official site is pretty pathetic by comparison, but I'm not surprised - another mushroom analogy springs to mind.

I'm not entirely surprised the Head Coach wasn't there, but great to hear Attanasio was. Hopefully we see some pace now in the takeover.

 

[TIL 1010 5,159]

9 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Michael Bailey checked in at the same time as me at the shareholder registration desk so i wonder what he made of it all surrounding the media and club stand off.

Just to be clear i had my ears pinned back as i was somewhat surprised to see him there and it looks like he attended with a proxy and not as a shareholder. Now i bet that went down well with the powers that be but if you conform to the rules hey ho.

[PurpleCanary 6,276]

19 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

To be clear i am not suggesting that i took her word for it last night but that was her claim.

Thanks. I understood that.

Edited November 11, 2022 by PurpleCanary

[essex canary 601]

9 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

I also heard that a shareholder had submitted 17 written questions prior to tonight, now i wonder who that could be ?

Is there any law against it?

In relation to the resolutions the question was asked concerning the Corporate Governance considerations behind Zoe being on the Board and the reasons for the change of auditor. The response to the first got directed along the lines of personal qualities which perhaps misses the point. The second received a rational explanation concerning the previous auditor being in place for too long a period though difficult to understand why this wasn't apparent at last year's AGM.

The floor did an excellent job throughout the whole meeting and kept returning in various guises to the issue of the EDP and of fan engagement in general. 

The guy who spoke one from last drew attention to the high ticket prices and stated with some conviction that it is a charge on loyalty.

I concluded the meeting with a request to resurrect the fan roadshows from Roger Munby's era. Tom Smith said that Delia had suggested that. Would be good if it happened because a quarterly opportunity outside of God's waiting room should afford more opportunities to reinforce some of these points and provide some hard questions for Zoe on a regular basis.

[Google Bot 3,847]

6 hours ago, MrFruit said:

Getting more difficult to buy shares because Canaries Trust buying them up?

Then buy a brick? 🙂

[Google Bot 3,847]

3 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

As I understand it a senior figure at Carrow Road talked to the then editor at the time of Attanasiogate in an attempt to kill the story but was quite rightly rebuffed. Which was not taken at all well.

I don't know if you saw Conor talking about this with the TNC guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QL08AsSrTs&t=400s

But he clarifies on there that they informed the club that the story was to go out, and it was "heavily implied" that the club didn't want them to run it.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Google Bot

[By Hook or Ian crook 943]

12 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Thanks for relaying this back. 

The 60% wage reduction clause is a really interesting aspect.  Probably explains the Rashica situation and his reluctance to even look remotely interested start of this season.

And here's the EDP's mushroom article if anyone missed it (I did):

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/23083954.dean-smith-mushroom-will-last-longest/

Easiest way around this is it to only offer experienced out of contract players 1 year with an option for retention should we stay up it’s not rocket science. 
 

players you have to pay a fee for would be more difficult but we probably can’t attract them from other Prem clubs anyway. 

[A Load of Squit 6,205]

The report from Ricardo and the live feed from WOTB last night make a good case for Tom Smith to become our new Chair.

[sonyc 6,143]

2 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Zoe was surprisingly honest - perhaps a little put on the spot by Tom? (Which seems strange with pre-submitted questions) - when asked about whether the introduction and involvement of Mark Attanasio was an acceptance that the ceiling of the current self-sustaining model had been reached. 

She stated really quite clearly that there was now a more than tacit acceptance that Premier clubs  had basically all moved away from us. Not just those at the top end, but the vast body of the Premier. That our finances simply could not compete.

Thank you Parma (and Ricardo) for your long replies. I'm disappointed by the club's stance on the local media and have posted that it is just another divisive thing, when we need to be a united club (which includes everyone) to be successful. That aside, what I'm most interested in is the playing side of course and what strategy underpins that? Am I right in thinking that the self funding model appears now quietly being put out into the long grass? A good idea at the time but failed on two testings? What then is our aim? I'm not sure if it's major investment (understanding the win/win/win message of course) or changing our style (clearly intimated) or I wonder if it might mean changing the management/coaching more often perhaps (someone to maximise what weapons we have, to reference your often-used description) Parma? 

If our finances cannot compete then what do we do? You raise a dilemma in the winning mantra by MA. In fact it feels a bit of a contradiction. We've got to win but our understanding is that we cannot compete financially.

I'm concluding therefore it's a mix of hope that we can play above our 'level' with some smaller investment whilst not overreaching. Will be remain dependent on player sales? I'm guessing so but seems this wasn't asked? MA is the key isn't he? More than Webber? And whilst a prickly question, I wonder if someone might have asked him about his personal strategy? He was linked with Chelsea, he has climbing ambitions, he stated he can give at least 90%. Is his plan joined to Zoe's? They are a team but might she be with us longer? I doubt it personally but don't know. If he leaves in 2023 would Zoe leave too? With Delia and WynnJones getting on too (retiring?) there is massive change ahead? A seamless transfer to Tom Smith I assume?

Lots of questions still! But I'm very grateful to everyone's accounts on here. I'm someone always with lots of questions. Apologies for that. And I also know that often there aren't any.

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by sonyc

[Google Bot 3,847]

9 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Easiest way around this is it to only offer experienced out of contract players 1 year with an option for retention should we stay up it’s not rocket science. 

The other option is to bring in fewer players and not be bound by such heavy wage cuts.  It's only our own policies that bind such stipulations around recruitement.

I'd even suggest that buying a single proven player (Let's say a hardy defensive midfielder) who's at the club for 2-3 seasons on full whack - regardless of position - will yield far greater squad benefits than 4-5 cheapskates who will knowingly lose 60% of their pay next season while sat in the relegation zone for that season.

It's must be pretty demoralising, and explains why we saw a lot of individuals on the field last season.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Google Bot

[essex canary 601]

7 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

The report from Ricardo and the live feed from WOTB last night make a good case for Tom Smith to become our new Chair.

I quite enjoyed Tom as bowler and Zoe as batsman. The bowling was quite good. Still concerned about all these close family relationships though.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

Obviously many of the points raised mean little to us ex Pats. They are more parochial matters. But  Iwould ask those of you who attended what the atmosphere was like? Was anyone giving the BoD a bit of stick or was it more like a Philip Schofield interview.

I assume they do get information about this site and others and the temperature of the fans mood. But the AGM is the only point of face to face contact where pertinent questions can be asked. It would be difficult for the Chair to disallow a question.

[By Hook or Ian crook 943]

8 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

The other option is to bring in fewer players and not be bound by such heavy wage cuts.  It's only our own policies that bind such stipulations around recruitement.

I'd even suggest that buying a single proven player (Let's say a hardy defensive midfielder) who's at the club for 2-3 seasons on full whack - regardless of position - will yield far greater squad benefits than 4-5 cheapskates who will knowingly lose 60% of their pay next season while sat in the relegation zone for that season.

It's must be pretty demoralising, and explains why we saw a lot of individuals on the field last season.

Also true, perhaps had we been a bit smarter last summer we could of got the likes of a Gary Cahill or Andros Townsend to give some more experience. 
 

i also think they did not make best use of the domestic lower leagues like we used too under McNally. Players like Olise and Eze who are both now at palace should of been real targets previous summers. 

[GMF 977]

11 minutes ago, essex canary said:

I quite enjoyed Tom as bowler and Zoe as batsman. The bowling was quite good. Still concerned about all these close family relationships though.

To carry on the cricketing analogy, I thought he bowled more bouncers than friendly full tosses!

Anyway, looks like you’re going to get your roadshows back. They must have reread the 1998 Annual Report 😜

[By Hook or Ian crook 943]

15 minutes ago, essex canary said:

I quite enjoyed Tom as bowler and Zoe as batsman. The bowling was quite good. Still concerned about all these close family relationships though.

It is Norfolk after all you know 😂

[TheRock 189]

13 hours ago, ricardo said:

For those who want the ticket office to reopen for face to face purchases, hard luck, its not going to happen.

 

Thanks for the write-up. Was there an explanation as to why?

Closing it was a step backwards, why would they want to turn potential business away?

[Mello Yello 2,538]

I'm inconsolable regarding the ticket office that won't reopen for face to face purchases....I'm all for progress, but that's a step backwards and a travesty....