Chelsea talking to Webber

[Big Vince 318]

7 hours ago, horsefly said:

FFS! Are you seriously suggesting we should make a judgement about Sara after he has played a minimal amount of football, and after recovering from a long injury? Name me one team that has got every transfer decision right. And in case you haven't noticed we can't afford to pay £100,000 a week to a single player, hence the need to scrutinise hard data to spend wisely. Do I really need to go through all those that did pay off using this method, Jesus!!!

The point being of course that the machine cannot tell the boy Webber if that player being scrutinized is capable of doing all those measurables at a higher level such as in the EPL. When Rashica and Normann and Sargent and PLM were recruited the machine said they could do these measurables at a lower level but as soon as they had to make the step up they were all found wanting. The boy Sargent illustrates this point perfectly. He couldn't hack the EPL but now he's at a lower level he's able to find where the net is. And that, my friend, is the problem with the machine.

[horsefly 4,302]

4 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

The point being of course that the machine cannot tell the boy Webber if that player being scrutinized is capable of doing all those measurables at a higher level such as in the EPL. When Rashica and Normann and Sargent and PLM were recruited the machine said they could do these measurables at a lower level but as soon as they had to make the step up they were all found wanting. The boy Sargent illustrates this point perfectly. He couldn't hack the EPL but now he's at a lower level he's able to find where the net is. And that, my friend, is the problem with the machine.

What utter tosh! It's patently obvious that it can only tell you about data relating to the leagues that players have actually played in. But since those are the leagues we are shopping in it is absolutely crucial to have such data so we can compare players within those leagues. How the hell do you come to the conclusion that that is a problem with the "machine" that it can't generate stats for games and leagues a player has never played in? Once you have the hard data you then have to exercise judgement as to whether you think that a player has a good chance of stepping up a grade. But who thought anything other than that apart from you? It's a data analyser, not mystic Meg.

[hogesar 9,677]

6 hours ago, WD40 said:

Romano reporting it’s going to Southamptons director of recruitment which makes a lot more sense than tinpot Webber. 

They clearly thought differently, to interview him at all.

Imagine that, one of the biggest clubs in Europe basically telling you your view on Webber is wrong, and your solution? Insult him and double down 😄

 

[Pyro Pete 1,897]

 

[Pyro Pete 1,897]

Tough luck, Stu.

Oh well, you've always got Everest.

[canarybubbles 1,923]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

What utter tosh! It's patently obvious that it can only tell you about data relating to the leagues that players have actually played in. But since those are the leagues we are shopping in it is absolutely crucial to have such data so we can compare players within those leagues. How the hell do you come to the conclusion that that is a problem with the "machine" that it can't generate stats for games and leagues a player has never played in? Once you have the hard data you then have to exercise judgement as to whether you think that a player has a good chance of stepping up a grade. But who thought anything other than that apart from you? It's a data analyser, not mystic Meg.

Absolutely. As long as stats remain a tool, use them. It's only when they tempt people not to exercise judgement that they become dangerous.

[Bert 236]

Sexy Bennett called it right yet again folks 

[Capt. Pants 4,250]

I thought that was likely to be the case. Good, I'm pleased. Carry on as you were Stu, hopefully.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,432]

It’s a shame in some ways as SW could have used the similar spin he used on us . You know . How they pïssed all of Abramovich’s money up the wall on Lukaku and Stewie saved Chelsea by selling Mason Mount . 
 

PS can’t wait to hear Webbers side of this. It’ll be worth waiting for ….

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,220]

Perfectly sensible for Chelsea to explore multiple options. 

Perfectly sensible for Webber to explore what the market has to offer, plus the opportunity to quantify his market value.

Could just as easily be a precursor to signing a longer, more lucrative contract as leaving. 

Professional football. 

Parma 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

10 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

No doubt he was invited in. In my mind had he blown their socks off in the 'talks' he would have been appointed by now. There would have been no reason to delay. 

Agreed 

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

46 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

It’s a shame in some ways as SW could have used the similar spin he used on us . You know . How they pïssed all of Abramovich’s money up the wall on Lukaku and Stewie saved Chelsea by selling Mason Mount . 
 

PS can’t wait to hear Webbers side of this. It’ll be worth waiting for ….

Unlike Norwich, Chelsea did use a lot of Abramovich's money on their training ground as well as buying players.

[corbs 147]

Abramovich’s money? Think it was the Russian peoples money asset stripped 

[Mengo 823]

4 hours ago, Pyro Pete said:

Tough luck, Stu.

Oh well, you've always got Everest.

Try abroad next time Stu. I'm sorry you didn't get your dream job at Chelsea.

 

What has Stuart Hodge said about Stuart Webber’s future?

Speaking to GIVEMESPORT, Hodge dismissed the notion that Webber could be poached by a rival Premier League club in the near future, revealing that the Norwich director intends to work in Europe once he leaves Carrow Road. 

When asked whether Webber could jump ship to another top flight side, Hodge replied: “No. We know each other personally. I would be very surprised if that were his next move because as far as I’m aware, the continent is where he would look for his next job.”

 

[chicken 2,627]

5 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

Absolutely. As long as stats remain a tool, use them. It's only when they tempt people not to exercise judgement that they become dangerous.

I mean, reading through this thread it is funny how it reads. It looks like some folks don't think we scout as well as use data...

It really is worth watching moneyball, it kind of gives an indication of how it works. It also gives some idea of why stats may also have played a part in why Farke felt switching Godfrey to CB would do him better than DM.

I think McLean was also more AM in Scotland wasn't he?

[Big Vince 318]

7 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

It’s a shame in some ways as SW could have used the similar spin he used on us . You know . How they pïssed all of Abramovich’s money up the wall on Lukaku and Stewie saved Chelsea by selling Mason Mount . 
 

PS can’t wait to hear Webbers side of this. It’ll be worth waiting for ….

The difference being of course that Chelsea have got five EPL crowns, the Champions League et al whereas Norwich have got nothing at all in major titles. It never ceases to amaze me that people around here seem to think Norwich are gaining some kind of advantage by doing things their own way when clearly it produces absolutely nothing. Folk around here have been well and truly brainwashed by the CR spin machine; first driven by the boy Ferrari and now carried on by others. 

[Big Vince 318]

12 hours ago, horsefly said:

What utter tosh! It's patently obvious that it can only tell you about data relating to the leagues that players have actually played in. But since those are the leagues we are shopping in it is absolutely crucial to have such data so we can compare players within those leagues. How the hell do you come to the conclusion that that is a problem with the "machine" that it can't generate stats for games and leagues a player has never played in? Once you have the hard data you then have to exercise judgement as to whether you think that a player has a good chance of stepping up a grade. But who thought anything other than that apart from you? It's a data analyser, not mystic Meg.

Right, so you have conceded that Norwich City are fundamentally a Championship club because they can only shop in leagues where the machine says they can find players for their own level. The owners of the club do not want to see the machine reconfigured to find players at a higher level because they don' t want to pay £100,000 per week per player.

Secondly, why bother with the machine at all if you have then got to use real eyes connected to a real brain to see if a player has got what it takes to go to a higher level. 

Should go back to old fashioned scouting, but the game is now dominated by laptop geeks who don't want to get soaked through watching a promising talent at some far flung place on a midweek night.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

Vincey, you are a walking talking cliche. Like some old codger random quote generator. You must bore yourself by now.

[horsefly 4,302]

2 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Right, so you have conceded that Norwich City are fundamentally a Championship club because they can only shop in leagues where the machine says they can find players for their own level. The owners of the club do not want to see the machine reconfigured to find players at a higher level because they don' t want to pay £100,000 per week per player.

Secondly, why bother with the machine at all if you have then got to use real eyes connected to a real brain to see if a player has got what it takes to go to a higher level. 

Should go back to old fashioned scouting, but the game is now dominated by laptop geeks who don't want to get soaked through watching a promising talent at some far flung place on a midweek night.

Christ almighty! You really aren't ashamed to prove your ignorance time and time again are you! The club under Webber declared its ambition to be a top 26 club and articulated very clearly what that entailed. Sadly, you persistently demonstrate that you don't understand his explanation of what that entails but let's give it one last try. It's not that the club "don't want to pay £100,000" in wages per week to a player, it's that it CAN'T pay £100,000 per week to a player. To even contemplate that possibility at this stage of the club's history is to contemplate destroying the club on a reckless financial gamble. Thus, the intelligent thing to do is employ methods that assist in the attempt to ensure that the limited amount of money the club is able to spend is spent as wisely as possible according to objective criteria of player performance. That's what data analysis does. But, of course, that analysis does not guarantee that a particular player will replicate such performance in a different club dynamic. Thus, the club employs scouts to both identify players worth scrutinizing and assess the likelihood that a particular player is likely to fit in at NCFC. By its very nature that aspect of the transfer process requires a judgement call that goes beyond the hard objective data and is therefore intrinsically vulnerable to the vicissitudes of projecting into the future. 

You are simply wrong that "laptop geeks" have replaced the importance of having "old fashioned" scouts getting "soaked through watching a promising talent at some far-flung place on a midweek night". Indeed, never have the club had so many scouts in so many far-flung places doing precisely that. If only there was some evidence to convince you of that FACT, perhaps something like having a Chilean or Brazilian player turning out for the club for the first time in its history.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,553]

16 hours ago, Big Vince said:

The point being of course that the machine cannot tell the boy Webber if that player being scrutinized is capable of doing all those measurables at a higher level such as in the EPL. When Rashica and Normann and Sargent and PLM were recruited the machine said they could do these measurables at a lower level but as soon as they had to make the step up they were all found wanting. The boy Sargent illustrates this point perfectly. He couldn't hack the EPL but now he's at a lower level he's able to find where the net is. And that, my friend, is the problem with the machine.

I don't think that's a given about Sargeant at all, as a young and developing player; any combination of the stage of his development, rate of development, the fact that he wasn't in his key role, and the fact that the team as a whole was not up to PL levels can account for Sargeant not making an impact in the Premier League without him being 'unable to hack it' in definitive terms. 

[Capt. Pants 4,250]

I wonder if Pukki is feeling slightly grumpy at the moment given that Webber was permitted to talk to other clubs but he wasn't?

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,327]

17 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I wonder if Pukki is feeling slightly grumpy at the moment given that Webber was permitted to talk to other clubs but he wasn't?

I'm sure it'll be explained to teemu that he is a trillion times more valuable (and important) and far less replaceable than Mr 90%

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

18 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I wonder if Pukki is feeling slightly grumpy at the moment given that Webber was permitted to talk to other clubs but he wasn't?

Do you think they have the same contract?

Pukki will be allowed to talk to other clubs or negotiate a new deal with City in January.

 

[Capt. Pants 4,250]

2 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Do you think they have the same contract?

Pukki will be allowed to talk to other clubs or negotiate a new deal with City in January.

 

I'm aware that Pukki will talk to other clubs in January. Here and now I bet the thought crossed his mind.

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

2 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I'm aware that Pukki will talk to other clubs in January. Here and now I bet the thought crossed his mind.

I bet it didn't. 

[Capt. Pants 4,250]

4 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

I bet it didn't. 

Well there you go 1-1

[WD40 720]

17 hours ago, hogesar said:

They clearly thought differently, to interview him at all.

Imagine that, one of the biggest clubs in Europe basically telling you your view on Webber is wrong, and your solution? Insult him and double down 😄

 

Often when going out to tender or recruit you’ll get a range of suppliers across a spectrum of quality. You never know, the bargain basement may surprise you. In this case it seems Chelsea - as you rightly say one of the biggest clubs - have elected to go for someone with rather fewer abject failures. 

[Capt. Pants 4,250]

9 minutes ago, WD40 said:

Often when going out to tender or recruit you’ll get a range of suppliers across a spectrum of quality. You never know, the bargain basement may surprise you. In this case it seems Chelsea - as you rightly say one of the biggest clubs - have elected to go for someone with rather fewer abject failures. 

Well yes you certainly have to benchmark candidates and don't forget the role was vacant at Chelsea so a breadth of candidates was inevitable so that the new owners and exec could evaluate what was available. That said it's still a massive compliment to Webber that he was considered at all, but the timing probably wasn't quite right with his external commitments. Chelsea aren't going to faff around with 90%.

Potter is also involved in the progress and I'm sure I read somewhere that it was he who suggested Webber but I can't find the link now.

 

[Big Vince 318]

7 hours ago, horsefly said:

Christ almighty! You really aren't ashamed to prove your ignorance time and time again are you! The club under Webber declared its ambition to be a top 26 club and articulated very clearly what that entailed. Sadly, you persistently demonstrate that you don't understand his explanation of what that entails but let's give it one last try. It's not that the club "don't want to pay £100,000" in wages per week to a player, it's that it CAN'T pay £100,000 per week to a player. To even contemplate that possibility at this stage of the club's history is to contemplate destroying the club on a reckless financial gamble. Thus, the intelligent thing to do is employ methods that assist in the attempt to ensure that the limited amount of money the club is able to spend is spent as wisely as possible according to objective criteria of player performance. That's what data analysis does. But, of course, that analysis does not guarantee that a particular player will replicate such performance in a different club dynamic. Thus, the club employs scouts to both identify players worth scrutinizing and assess the likelihood that a particular player is likely to fit in at NCFC. By its very nature that aspect of the transfer process requires a judgement call that goes beyond the hard objective data and is therefore intrinsically vulnerable to the vicissitudes of projecting into the future. 

You are simply wrong that "laptop geeks" have replaced the importance of having "old fashioned" scouts getting "soaked through watching a promising talent at some far-flung place on a midweek night". Indeed, never have the club had so many scouts in so many far-flung places doing precisely that. If only there was some evidence to convince you of that FACT, perhaps something like having a Chilean or Brazilian player turning out for the club for the first time in its history.

Having a top 26 ambition is simply not good enough. It means that you casually accept relegation which is what we have seen for many years now. The ambition should be top 17 so that there is more pressure to succeed. I am afraid that at Norwich City acceptance of failure has become too ingrained and it starts with the Socialists and is seen all the way through the club and down to the fans. If the club owners do not have the money to deliver top 17 then they should step aside and sell the club to someone who can deliver. You are saying that the club should keep itself in this bind as some kind of article of faith. It doesn't have to be so. Let me explain something very simple to you. The club will not pay players £100,000 per week each because the Socialists would have to call in the administrators and they would lose the train set. They are not bothered about the recklessness of the gamble itself only it's consequences for them. The club is in an existential crisis which can be gauged from the subdued mood of the home crowd. It would like promotion but doesn't like the consequences of promotion. The intelligent thing for the club to do at this point in its history is to find owners who can take the club up another level and be able to afford £100,000 per week per player. But no, they will not even try to do so because the current owners despise everything the EPL stands for and have brainwashed every single fan into believing the same. So instead we are where we are with second rate Brazilians and second rate Chileans replacing the second rate Germans. And so the machine is configured according to where the Socialists see us as being. Second division. And that is why Chase was way ahead of his time.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,553]

44 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Having a top 26 ambition is simply not good enough. It means that you casually accept relegation which is what we have seen for many years now. The ambition should be top 17 so that there is more pressure to succeed. I am afraid that at Norwich City acceptance of failure has become too ingrained and it starts with the Socialists and is seen all the way through the club and down to the fans. If the club owners do not have the money to deliver top 17 then they should step aside and sell the club to someone who can deliver. You are saying that the club should keep itself in this bind as some kind of article of faith. It doesn't have to be so. Let me explain something very simple to you. The club will not pay players £100,000 per week each because the Socialists would have to call in the administrators and they would lose the train set. They are not bothered about the recklessness of the gamble itself only it's consequences for them. The club is in an existential crisis which can be gauged from the subdued mood of the home crowd. It would like promotion but doesn't like the consequences of promotion. The intelligent thing for the club to do at this point in its history is to find owners who can take the club up another level and be able to afford £100,000 per week per player. But no, they will not even try to do so because the current owners despise everything the EPL stands for and have brainwashed every single fan into believing the same. So instead we are where we are with second rate Brazilians and second rate Chileans replacing the second rate Germans. And so the machine is configured according to where the Socialists see us as being. Second division. And that is why Chase was way ahead of his time.

That's your personal opinion, but that's irrelevant when judging the club's performance against its own immediate targets. That in no way means the club is resting on its laurels in the effort to become a top 17 club.