Flattering to Deceive

[littleyellowbirdie 2,553]

Taking a step back, the thread title seems more appropriate to Farke's tenure: a style that was elegant, enjoyable to watch, and ultimately broke down when faced with good enough opposition.

What we've seen this season, the ability to grind out positive results without ideal conditions, even unable to fill key positions, is the diametric opposite of flattering to deceive.

[dylanisabaddog 4,933]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

 

Personally I'd abandon the 4-3-3 and make it a priority to get Sargent more central. If he wants to stick to this formation though then I'd be tempted to drop Pukki but that is a huge call. 

 

I'm no lover of Smith but my understanding is that Farke abandoned 4 2 3 1 on the direction of Webber.  Annoying, because we currently have players who fit that system perfectly. 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

4 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Try and keep it together you are looking more and more rattled.

Yep  , so rattled  i had to go out and meet friends( look that word up) for brunch and a trip to  the best tackle shop in   the area.. ...in order to pursue my hobby( get one...its healing) . 

Heres a deal for you .... You stop posting the same old same old shoite in different wrapping  and ill stop challenging the tripe  that you post. ....bur that would be one less person in your life , and your mum probably appreciates us engaging you, as she's tired of your petty demands and tantrums, grow up, leave home . You may enjoy adulthood .....its never too lare to try it.

You call me obsessive, i call it public duty.  Same as id tell any eeejit who was a nuisance, say on a bus or whatever.  It amuses me , you are my plaything that i can pick up and put down ( literally) at any point i fancy.... But it butthurts you when  i do.....you even unblocked me cos you miss the attention. ...how sad are you  Buh?.  But Its ok, you attitude is clearly a cry for help ,  its a pattern, we've seen it all before, well , those of us who go outside have anyway. 

Tonnes of sympathy xxx,  untill next time , adieu. 

[kirku 1,334]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Taking a step back, the thread title seems more appropriate to Farke's tenure: a style that was elegant, enjoyable to watch, and ultimately broke down when faced with good enough opposition.

What we've seen this season, the ability to grind out positive results without ideal conditions, even unable to fill key positions, is the diametric opposite of flattering to deceive.

Farke was forced to play Tettey at CB in the Prem, named two youth keepers on the bench, dealt with huge Covid disruption, and played Sorensen at LB for over half a season. 

I'm not sure we can give Smith a pass on that basis and we saw nothing last season, or this, to suggest his "system" (that nobody can articulate) wouldn't similarly break down in the top flight.

Edited October 5, 2022 by kirku

[hertfordyellow 460]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I'm no lover of Smith but my understanding is that Farke abandoned 4 2 3 1 on the direction of Webber.  Annoying, because we currently have players who fit that system perfectly. 

Where does that understanding come from?

[kirku 1,334]

Just now, hertfordyellow said:

Where does that understanding come from?

Seems to be the perceived wisdom, you could see it in the recruitment strategy

[shefcanary 2,410]

Just now, hertfordyellow said:

Where does that understanding come from?

The **** you he gave Webber in the last match when he knew he was getting the sack so played 4-2-3-1  and we beat Brentford!  Apparently...  🤭

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

8 minutes ago, kirku said:

Farke was forced to play Tettey at CB in the Prem, named two youth keepers on the bench, dealt with huge Covid disruption, and played Sorensen at LB for over half a season. 

I'm not sure we can give Smith a pass on that basis and we saw nothing last season, or this, to suggest his "system" (that nobody can articulate) wouldn't similarly break down in the top flight.

If we go up under smith with will be the absolute whipping boys next year we would be lucky to get 10 points 

[king canary 7,609]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I'm no lover of Smith but my understanding is that Farke abandoned 4 2 3 1 on the direction of Webber.  Annoying, because we currently have players who fit that system perfectly. 

Webber dictates the transfer strategy but he won't be sitting down with the manager saying 'you've got to play this formation!' 

If Farke wanted to play 4-2-3-1 last season he could have done with ease- he had plenty of players who could fill the roles.

[hertfordyellow 460]

Just now, kirku said:

Seems to be the perceived wisdom, you could see it in the recruitment strategy

So Farke was told to move to 4-3-3 by Webber to fit his purchases? Not the purchases were made with Farke's tactical input? Perceived wisdom = made up as there is no evidence from either sources that that was the case.

[hertfordyellow 460]

3 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

The **** you he gave Webber in the last match when he knew he was getting the sack so played 4-2-3-1  and we beat Brentford!  Apparently...  🤭

oh yeah that 🙂

[hogesar 9,690]

9 minutes ago, kirku said:

Farke was forced to play Tettey at CB in the Prem, named two youth keepers on the bench, dealt with huge Covid disruption, and played Sorensen at LB for over half a season. 

I'm not sure we can give Smith a pass on that basis and we saw nothing last season, or this, to suggest his "system" (that nobody can articulate) wouldn't similarly break down in the top flight.

So because you can't see it, we should pre-criticise in-case it turns out to be rubbish? Feels incredibly backwards and an odd determination.

[kirku 1,334]

4 minutes ago, hogesar said:

So because you can't see it, we should pre-criticise in-case it turns out to be rubbish? Feels incredibly backwards and an odd determination.

What is Smith's system then?

[A Load of Squit 5,173]

2 minutes ago, kirku said:

What is Smith's system then?

He gets points, and what do points make? 

[kirku 1,334]

6 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

So Farke was told to move to 4-3-3 by Webber to fit his purchases? Not the purchases were made with Farke's tactical input? Perceived wisdom = made up as there is no evidence from either sources that that was the case.

It's unknown how much input Farke had in transfers but our model has been regularly routed as a continental one - wherein the coach has very little input into the transfers, in most cases.

Webber made a big song and dance about going for a different "profile" of player, and the ones he bought were suited to a 4-3-3..

[kirku 1,334]

2 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

He gets points, and what do points make? 

It's fine that you can't articulate what his system is.

The closest we've got is, "he changes it every week".

Want to try again?

Edited October 5, 2022 by kirku

[A Load of Squit 5,173]

2 minutes ago, kirku said:

It's fine that you can't articulate what his system is.

The closest we've got is, "he changes it every week".

Want to try again?

No, I really like my first answer.

[shefcanary 2,410]

Just now, The Real Buh said:

So let me get this straight big guy. You bombard me with un-answered messages (literally hundreds and hundreds and I’d encourage everyone to check the public record of this guys obsessive behaviour towards me) and now you don’t want to talk to me? You know what that makes you?

A little b1tch, mate.

You call me a “plaything”? Until this thread I haven’t responded to you in years. How is that “playing with me”? Sounds like severe mental illness to me. Like I said, I hope Ireland has the proper safeguards to keep people like you away from children and vulnerable people. To accuse me of being sad and living with my mother or whatever genetic insults you make and sit there with a public record of hundreds and hundreds of unanswered posts on here directed at me. It represents hundreds of hours dedicated to me with no response whatsoever and I’M the sadact 😂

how can you look your fat wife in the mouth and call yourself a man with a record like that?

 

Buh, WCC comes back at your comments mentioning him! You could just leave it there now. Or, why don't you two just start your own thread, leaving us to leave you two alone to fight out whatever it is you are fighting about and concentrate on sorting out how we stay in the EPL next season. 😉😄

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

It’s showtime again ladies and gentlemen. The Real Turd has woken. 

 

 

 

[The Real Buh 3,445]

1 minute ago, shefcanary said:

Buh, WCC comes back at your comments mentioning him! You could just leave it there now. Or, why don't you two just start your own thread, leaving us to leave you two alone to fight out whatever it is you are fighting about and concentrate on sorting out how we stay in the EPL next season. 😉😄

What do you mean? Until this thread he’s been on block for at least 2 years. He just relentlessly posts at me non-stop and now I’ve called him on it he’s crapped his pants because that’s the kind of man he is. A little b1tch.

[The Real Buh 3,445]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

It’s showtime again ladies and gentlemen. The Real Turd has woken. 

 

 

 

Let’s see what the hard man from the third world of cork has got to say now he’s got what he wants shall we? Or is he going to run like a little b1tch and pretend he’s got brunch 🤣

[hogesar 9,690]

31 minutes ago, kirku said:

What is Smith's system then?

4-3-3, although he interchanges it during games, or at least has done, to both 4-1-4-1 and 4-2-3-1, depending on how the game is going.

As he's said, limited central midfield options meant he's played slightly differently at times to cope with that alongside not having a left fullback who can offer genuine width because Byram is right-footed.

Generally we control possession, although unlike under Farke we counter-press much higher up the pitch so we're also happy to counter attack by winning the ball up high.

Anything else you need?

[Robert N. LiM 4,394]

The central question for me is, is Smith developing a strategy that can help us be more competitive in the PL? Comparing this season to Farke's two Championship wins is pointless, because we know that Farkeball didn't work in the division above. And we know that poorly-resourced clubs like us have to be more pragmatic to survive. So can we see the beginnings of a style that can work for us longer-term.

I don't know the answer to this question. We looked worryingly poor in possession last night, but encouragingly solid at the back in the face of two weapons in Carroll and Hoillet. It was one weak challenge from Núñez that led to their goal: other than that I didn't think we were in too much trouble against the 3rd-place team. 

It looks to me that Smith is trying to get us to do more with less possession, which seems sensible given that we can't expect to dominate possession in the PL. (In contrast, DF was obsessed with possession above all else.) Hence the work on set-pieces that others have commented on. It's clearly a work in progress and I'm far from convinced we're going to get there, but I would suggest there is a bigger picture to look at here.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,553]

57 minutes ago, kirku said:

Farke was forced to play Tettey at CB in the Prem, named two youth keepers on the bench, dealt with huge Covid disruption, and played Sorensen at LB for over half a season. 

I'm not sure we can give Smith a pass on that basis and we saw nothing last season, or this, to suggest his "system" (that nobody can articulate) wouldn't similarly break down in the top flight.

Smith's stint for us in the Premier League was dogged by Covid issues. As for Tettey, he's a name that seems to regularly come up as one everyone wishes we had a direct replacement for now. 

As @sonyc pointed out, we're seeing a lot of experimentation going on, all the while picking up plenty of points at the same time. It seems to me that experimenting to find out the potential of what you have while also doing very well on points is the best of both worlds. 

I loved Farke's time at the club, but I'm starting to think it was a curse on the club the way some people have developed this ridiculous idea you should be able to have pretty ticky tacky play  while struggling to bridge the gap between the Championship and the Premier League all on a shoestring budget. How quickly the toxicity in the club at game 11 with Farke's second Premier League season when we were on 0 points seems to have been forgotten. 

If people are happy to be 'entertained' with pretty football that collapses every time we get to the Premier League, then someone should get on the blower to Farke and offer him his job back. If they want to try something else and see if that can get us in the Premier League with a new investor in the club and a manager who got a rival promoted and secured in the Premier League and is currently getting us two points a game, maybe people should just pipe down with the pathetic whining about 'entertainment', enjoy the good results, and congratulate the players and manager for achieving them. It makes me laugh the absurdity of fans that when we're not getting points 'it's a results business', but if we're getting points 'it's an entertainment business'. 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[kirku 1,334]

8 minutes ago, hogesar said:

4-3-3, although he interchanges it during games, or at least has done, to both 4-1-4-1 and 4-2-3-1, depending on how the game is going.

As he's said, limited central midfield options meant he's played slightly differently at times to cope with that alongside not having a left fullback who can offer genuine width because Byram is right-footed.

Generally we control possession, although unlike under Farke we counter-press much higher up the pitch so we're also happy to counter attack by winning the ball up high.

Anything else you need?

Those are formations, my point is about his system, style, the patterns of play we aim to reproduce in order to win games. What's our identity?

[kirku 1,334]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I loved Farke's time at the club, but I'm starting to think it was a curse on the club the way some people have developed this ridiculous idea you should be able to have pretty ticky tacky play  while struggling to bridge the gap between the Championship and the Premier League all on a shoestring budget.

 

I very much enjoyed Alex Neil's tenure and, as you mentioned in a previous thread, Lambert's. Worthy had us playing some decent stuff as well.

Smith's just seems soulless..

[hogesar 9,690]

Just now, kirku said:

Those are formations, my point is about his system, style, the patterns of play we aim to reproduce in order to win games. What's our identity?

No, that's not just formations.

Counter-pressing and winning the ball high up the pitch is a system combined with a formation. Having slightly different variances in style to combat the one-style-only approach that killed us at prem level is a bonus. For example, we play between the lines and dominate possession generally but on occasion Smith is happy for us to try and turn the opposition with a direct ball over the top. 

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it isn't one. And what more detail could you give me about Farke's style over what i've given you about Smiths?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,553]

4 minutes ago, kirku said:

I very much enjoyed Alex Neil's tenure and, as you mentioned in a previous thread, Lambert's. Worthy had us playing some decent stuff as well.

Smith's just seems soulless..

I just don't agree. Player morale is clearly good, they're scoring goals, we're seeing a wider variety of goal scorers than we've seen in some time, they can fight back from behind to win. To me, dismissing all of that for the sake of misgivings over aesthetics strikes me as pretty soulless. 

It really does seem that,at Norwich City, as one article put it, perfection has become the enemy of the good. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[A Load of Squit 5,173]

38 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

So let me get this straight big guy. You bombard me with un-answered messages (literally hundreds and hundreds and I’d encourage everyone to check the public record of this guys obsessive behaviour towards me) and now you don’t want to talk to me? You know what that makes you?

A little b1tch, mate.

You call me a “plaything”? Until this thread I haven’t responded to you in years. How is that “playing with me”? Sounds like severe mental illness to me. Like I said, I hope Ireland has the proper safeguards to keep people like you away from children and vulnerable people. To accuse me of being sad and living with my mother or whatever genetic insults you make and sit there with a public record of hundreds and hundreds of unanswered posts on here directed at me. It represents hundreds of hours dedicated to me with no response whatsoever and I’M the sadact 😂

how can you look your fat wife in the mouth and call yourself a man with a record like that?

 

It's never your fault, you're always the victim.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

37 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

So let me get this straight big guy. You bombard me with un-answered messages (literally hundreds and hundreds and I’d encourage everyone to check the public record of this guys obsessive behaviour towards me) and now you don’t want to talk to me? You know what that makes you?

A little b1tch, mate.

You call me a “plaything”? Until this thread I haven’t responded to you in years. How is that “playing with me”? Sounds like severe mental illness to me. Like I said, I hope Ireland has the proper safeguards to keep people like you away from children and vulnerable people. To accuse me of being sad and living with my mother or whatever genetic insults you make and sit there with a public record of hundreds and hundreds of unanswered posts on here directed at me. It represents hundreds of hours dedicated to me with no response whatsoever and I’M the sadact 😂

how can you look your fat wife in the mouth and call yourself a man with a record like that?

 

My wife died last year , mate.  And im Garda vetted for youth coaching . You couldn't be more wrong, as usual. Tw@.