Sell Pukki in January?

[Gibbo 131]

The man is the difference between winning and drawing games.  I know that was a suicidal backpass from Blackpool today, but the touch to give himself the ball to run onto was sublime and something that doesn't really exist outside the prem.

[chicken 2,624]

4 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Sargent is no Pukki replacement.   He’s a completely different player for one and remains absolutely unproven in this league, the EPL is a completely different animal! 

I mean, there is plenty of season left but I think it's a tad harsh to suggest Sargent is "absolutely unproven in this league". 6 goals and one assist from 11 games where he hasn't always been the striker is pretty decent... I wouldn't call that "absolutely unproven". Perhaps over the course of several seasons, but then that is harsh on a 22yr old in his first Championship season. When you consider that he's doing incredibly well, especially in a side that people feel isn't quite clicking smoothly yet. Not sure what more he has to do really. 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

Stupid original post

[canarybubbles 1,915]

9 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

In January, Pukki will have six months left on his contract. If he doesn't want to extend should we seek to get something for him while we can, given that we know now that Sargent is a decent replacement? What do you think we could get for him? Where would you want to see any money raised spent?

1) Pukki has delivered over four seasons at both levels; Sargent has delivered over ten games in the Championship. That makes him promising, but not yet a proven replacement.

2) As well as Sargent has done this season, there are still times when he lacks Pukki's first touch and his speed of thinking. There have been several occasions when he received the ball in a very dangerous position but couldn't make a quick decision and the moment was wasted (e.g. the very start of the game against Bristol). This is not an effort to 'trash' Sargent: very, very few strikers at lower Prem/higher Champs have Pukki's touch and quick thinking.

3) They are very different players offering different things. To state the obvious, Sargent offers an aerial threat and a physical presence that Pukki doesn't. Surely we need both, and the tricky task is how to integrate them into the same attack.

4) What if Sargent gets injured and Idah hasn't recovered or can't step up?

5) We'd probably get very little for Pukki anyway since clubs will know they can get him for nothing in the summer.

So from me, a big no. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

9 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Because it’s only a few games and against pretty ropey opposition!     When he’s done it on a consistent basis over the season then I’ll be more than happy to say he’s proven himself.      Simple as that!   Pukki has done it season after season… to suggest Sargent can fill the void Pukki would leave is just wrong.  He couldn’t!!!!!   Except for that I do appreciate your post is only asking a question about whether we could sell Pukki, and some posters (most) seem to think you are suggesting we should…. Not sure you are!   

Pukki had many total sitters against ropy opposition at the start of the season that he fluffed, yet nobody doubted he'd come back; that was several games in a row that Sargeant had, the first ever time in that slot where he took his chances, so that's majorly excessive scepticism on your part. 

Whether Sargeant and Pukki are the same style of player is irrelevant. The key point is that Sargeant has shown he's very effective when put in the same position. 

The point about injury to either Pukki or Sargeant is a good one, but to be honest, I'm raising my eyebrows at the fact that after it has been such a worry that Pukki has been our only option in that role, the fact that Sargeant's introduction in that position has not only delivered goals from him, but also an uptick in goals from other players isn't a source of more enthusiasm for him playing there. 

Not questioning Pukki's talent or the value he has had at the club, I'm simply pointing out that we're almost certainly coming to the end of the road with him whether we like it or not. He has had two utterly horrific seasons with us in the Premier League; it's extremely unlikely he'll go for a third, whatever happens. 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

16 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

He has had two utterly horrific seasons with us in the Premier League; it's extremely unlikely he'll go for a third, whatever happens. 

 

Complete tosh.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

2 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Complete tosh.

 

Really? Why? What makes you so positive this is 'utter tosh' and he'll be excited to have a new contract with us towards the end of his career at the start of a new Premier League campaign having gone through two really brutal relegations with us previously where his goals were about the only positive about either of them? 

Edited October 2, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Really? Why? What makes you so positive this is 'utter tosh' and he'll be excited to have a new contract with us towards the end of his career at the start of a new Premier League campaign having gone through two really brutal relegations with us previously where his goals were about the only positive about either of them? 

It's quite simple, he didn't have 2 'utterly horrific' seasons in the Premier League.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

3 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

It's quite simple, he didn't have 2 'utterly horrific' seasons in the Premier League.

 

What?! Are you nuts? Why wouldn't he be horrified at being in a squad that was so brutally pasted?

Edit: I think you've misunderstood my meaning. I meant that both seasons would have been a horrific experience for him as part of his career, hence why it strikes me as odd to think he'll be keen to risk a repeat of the same, not that his performances for us were horrific. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[AJ 1,221]

Pukki owes us nothing but has it all to prove if he is to engineer a move away. Equally if we are promoted he might decide to stay for one last crack at the PL. If it wasn’t for his age I’ve no doubt someone would have come in for him by now. Consistent double figures seasons in the PL in a bottom side struggling to create chances is impressive

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

37 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

What?! Are you nuts? Why wouldn't he be horrified at being in a squad that was so brutally pasted?

Edit: I think you've misunderstood my meaning. I meant that both seasons would have been a horrific experience for him as part of his career, hence why it strikes me as odd to think he'll be keen to risk a repeat of the same, not that his performances for us were horrific. 

I didn't misunderstand anything you didn't explain what you where talking about, try reading what you've posted before hitting send.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

33 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

I didn't misunderstand anything you didn't explain what you where talking about, try reading what you've posted before hitting send.

You obviously did misunderstand what I meant; it was a valid sentence open to misinterpretation if you go for a really stupid interpretation that obviously doesn't make any sense. Why don't you try using your brain and wondering if you might be misinterpreting something when your own interpretation obviously doesn't make any sense in the context? 

Just to go more deeply into your failure to understand the English language here, if I was to say 'I have had a horrific week', I doubt many people would interpret my meaning to be that I've not performed well at my job, rather that the experience of the week had been an unpleasant one! I'm actually being generous to you suggesting that your failure to understand what I meant wasn't plain stupidity on your part. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Worthy Nigelton 1,047]

12 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

How.can you say he's unproven when he's performed superbly every time he has played as number 9 this season?

Coz he's only played 11 games in this league. People aren't saying he's not good enough, most think he probably is, but he's not a certainty in the same way Pukki is.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

Ultimately others have said it. Pukki’s ultimate financial value to us in sale is far less than the potential value if he can help us get promoted. The gamble of losing a few million if we just let him leave on a free is worth taking every time, especially for a club that are not mired in debt and don’t desperately need the cash. I think if we are there or thereabouts in Jan that it’d be bad of us to cash in and deprive the man of another chunk of glory and cemented legend status. Frankly he has that already imo, there will not be one single grumble from anyone if he leaves on a free. Except maybe the OP, but even then I doubt it 

Edited October 2, 2022 by SwearyCanary

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I would hope that if we are promoted we would be looking beyond nearly all the current first team. Teemu has proven he can score in the EPL. I would offer him another contract.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

15 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Because it’s only a few games and against pretty ropey opposition!     When he’s done it on a consistent basis over the season then I’ll be more than happy to say he’s proven himself.      Simple as that!   Pukki has done it season after season… to suggest Sargent can fill the void Pukki would leave is just wrong.  He couldn’t!!!!!   Except for that I do appreciate your post is only asking a question about whether we could sell Pukki, and some posters (most) seem to think you are suggesting we should…. Not sure you are!   

Thank you. I tried to phrase it in terms of open discussion because I do agree with the general point that it risks exposing us in a key area. Equally though, I do think we've been too reliant on him for too long, Sargeant has definitely made a case that he's the long term replacement, but we've moved him back to second fiddle instead of giving him more chance to develop as a number nine in spite of no fault on Sargeant's part. That combined with the fact that it's looking more and more likely Pukki'll go off on a free. Forgetting entirely about the selling in January thought, at the very least, why not rotate them more often in the number nine position and reduce the risk of injuring both?

If we spend the rest of the season relying on Pukki as number 9 and he leaves in the Summer, we'll be starting a new Premier League season with the whole squad starting with a new striker going from cold. Not sure that's a good idea.

Edited October 2, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

4 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You obviously did misunderstand what I meant; it was a valid sentence open to misinterpretation if you go for a really stupid interpretation that obviously doesn't make any sense. Why don't you try using your brain and wondering if you might be misinterpreting something when your own interpretation obviously doesn't make any sense in the context? 

Just to go more deeply into your failure to understand the English language here, if I was to say 'I have had a horrific week', I doubt many people would interpret my meaning to be that I've not performed well at my job, rather that the experience of the week had been an unpleasant one! I'm actually being generous to you suggesting that your failure to understand what I meant wasn't plain stupidity on your part. 

Complete tosh.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

27 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Complete tosh.

You should audition for a pantomime. Your debating skills would fit right in.

Edited October 2, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Branston Pickle 3,657]

20 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Keep him, get promoted and let the man decide what’s best for himself. Pukki owes us nothing. 

That’s extremely undervaluing what the club does - we took him on a free and have given him a shot at PL football he’d never have had, and he’s been extremely well paid in the process.  Of course he technically ‘owes us nothing’, but morally is different. 

[Indy 3,300]

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

That’s extremely undervaluing what the club does - we took him on a free and have given him a shot at PL football he’d never have had, and he’s been extremely well paid in the process.  Of course he technically ‘owes us nothing’, but morally is different. 

I don’t he owes us or the club…..he’s played a massive part delivered two promotions worth well in excess of 250 million into the coffers! I really don’t think he owes us anything morally, his choice and a big thank you from the fans and club if he decides it’s time to go!

Edited October 2, 2022 by Indy

[Branston Pickle 3,657]

16 minutes ago, Indy said:

I don’t he owes us or the club…..he’s played a massive part delivered two promotions worth well in excess of 250 million into the coffers! I really don’t think he owes us anything morally, his choice and a big thank you from the fans and club if he decides it’s time to go!

All I’m saying is it goes both ways - it is utterly ridiculous to think he’s gained nothing playing for Norwich. 

[Indy 3,300]

40 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

All I’m saying is it goes both ways - it is utterly ridiculous to think he’s gained nothing playing for Norwich. 

Absolutely, it’s kicked his career on no doubt, but I still say we don’t owe him anything and doesn’t owe us anything both parties can be happy with how it all turned out. Probably financially the best signing this club has ever made, not saying he took us up on his own as all players deserve credit for promotions, but without him I don’t think we’d have got up…..brilliant player fitted into our club and will be missed when he goes.

[Canaries north 151]

Does Pukki owe us. I don't think so. We have helped him move his career upwards and he in return has moved our club upwards. 

 

As has been said many times before, he is worth more to us this season than any other club will pay for a mid thirty odd player. 

 

If we go up will he stay? Only Pukki will really know that. How long a contract would be offered to a player of his age? Would I want him to stay✅ if he does decide to move on it will be very interesting to see who comes in for him. If I owned any team not in the big 6 I would take him. He might not play every week but would be a great squad player for any of them without huge wages and a good injury record. 

[paddycanary 539]

No. He's our best player. We should simply be delighted he's still here for this season and he will be extremely difficult to replace when he does move on. Club legend. For supporters of other clubs, he's often the only player on our books they can name! 🇫🇮🐐❤️

[Midlands Yellow 3,984]

4 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

That’s extremely undervaluing what the club does - we took him on a free and have given him a shot at PL football he’d never have had, and he’s been extremely well paid in the process.  Of course he technically ‘owes us nothing’, but morally is different. 

Not for me Pickle. The money this man has generated for the club is more than enough plus the first class loyalty shown. Pukki wanted out in the summer, he accepted the club chose otherwise and still he keeps performing. 

[Commonsense 624]

On 01/10/2022 at 20:15, littleyellowbirdie said:

Absolutely, but we don't owe him anything either. 

We were already winning with Sargent as number 9 getting a goal a game before Pukki got back on song after a poor start to the season. My feeling is he'll be gone either way in the Summer, we have a decent, younger replacement in Sargent, and the money could be used to acquire a defensive midfield upgrade, for the sake of argument, in January to boost us in a weaker area.

I can’t quite believe I’m reading this. Are you really suggesting we should sell the clubs most consistent player, who not only scores goals but creates them as well? An absolute model professional in all senses. I’ve read some nonsense on this board but this is another level. There is no way Sargent is a decent, younger replacement just because he’s managed to score a few goals in the championship.We owe Pukki massively. Your first sentence is utter drivel!!

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

1 hour ago, Commonsense said:

I can’t quite believe I’m reading this. Are you really suggesting we should sell the clubs most consistent player, who not only scores goals but creates them as well? An absolute model professional in all senses. I’ve read some nonsense on this board but this is another level. There is no way Sargent is a decent, younger replacement just because he’s managed to score a few goals in the championship.We owe Pukki massively. Your first sentence is utter drivel!!

So what about next season when Pukki has moved on on a free transfer? Are you comfortable going into a new Premier League season starting from scratch with a different striker who has had little chance to bed in with other players? Even with Sargeant, this looks like it will be the case given that when Pukki's fit, Sargeant gets shunted off to the wings. 

The Championship is a much more forgiving league than the Premier League. If we don't take the opportunity to cultivate others in a key role now, there will be hardly any chance once promoted. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Mello Yello 2,293]

I don't think the Pukster will be seeing his playing career out at Carra....If a substantial healthy financial offer from a decent club comes in January....?

Money talks.....

[king canary 7,606]

As many others have said it would be pointless to cash in on him in January- we'd maybe get £3-4m tops for a 32 year old in the last 6 months of his contract, while his worth to us is priceless right now.

At the end of the season I wouldn't begrudge him walking away and I do think it might be the right time for both him and us to look for new pastures. If he does want to stay though, great.

[Google Bot 3,275]

On 03/10/2022 at 10:59, king canary said:

As many others have said it would be pointless to cash in on him in January- we'd maybe get £3-4m tops for a 32 year old in the last 6 months of his contract, while his worth to us is priceless right now.

While it sounds crazy, there's always the potential of a prem club desperate to avoid relegation come in with a 10-15m offer for a proven goal scorer for 6 months.  And then what happens..?!