I see Farke is doing well..

[Matt Morriss 69]

4 hours ago, essex canary said:

Irrelevant. Not a great test. Farke may do very well back in Germany. He didn't understand the physicality of English Football at top level albeit that his style at second tier level was great.

Simple!

I think at this stage, after Smith failed so miserably with the same squad Farke had, and it being abundantly clear that the recruitment was so bad last season, that you have to be pretty clueless about football to suggest Farke was the problem.

Try going into a prem season after losing your best 2 players, having your hand forced with a supposed Chelsea wonderkid who turned out to be about as good as Fozzy Fotheringham, and being furnished with Bundesliga 2 forwards that just got their club relegated, and a Greek raw kid that clearly wasnt ready or suited to English football let alone the Premier League.

Everyone seems to forget our first season in the Prem. When we completely matched Man City and actually beat them. Nearly beat Arsenal, beat Leicester, and Spurs in the cup and for me the only reason we went down was 1 an horrendously bad injury run and 2 the obvious atrocious backing from Webber and the board.

Farke got given Patrick Roberts, Josip Drmic and Dennis Srbeny ffs and was told to go and keep us in the Prem.

Had we not had the bad luck of injuries, Covid and no fans, 0 centre backs at times and something like 11 players out at one time, and on top have actually given Farke some premier League quality to strengthen the team, I firmly believe we would have stayed up.

Last season Farkes task was even harder.

[TIL 1010 4,760]

3 hours ago, shefcanary said:

You can only beat what is in front of you.

Unless your name is Dean Smith.

[Terminally Yellow 2,471]

No clue about the German league and I've only scanned the thread, so may already be answered above; but isn't the German cup a massive sprawling competition that poses Bundesliga clubs against all and sundry in the first round?

Still, as said by @shefcanary - you can only beat what's in front of you. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,057]

1 hour ago, Matt Morriss said:

I think at this stage, after Smith failed so miserably with the same squad Farke had, and it being abundantly clear that the recruitment was so bad last season, that you have to be pretty clueless about football to suggest Farke was the problem.

Try going into a prem season after losing your best 2 players, having your hand forced with a supposed Chelsea wonderkid who turned out to be about as good as Fozzy Fotheringham, and being furnished with Bundesliga 2 forwards that just got their club relegated, and a Greek raw kid that clearly wasnt ready or suited to English football let alone the Premier League.

Everyone seems to forget our first season in the Prem. When we completely matched Man City and actually beat them. Nearly beat Arsenal, beat Leicester, and Spurs in the cup and for me the only reason we went down was 1 an horrendously bad injury run and 2 the obvious atrocious backing from Webber and the board.

Farke got given Patrick Roberts, Josip Drmic and Dennis Srbeny ffs and was told to go and keep us in the Prem.

Had we not had the bad luck of injuries, Covid and no fans, 0 centre backs at times and something like 11 players out at one time, and on top have actually given Farke some premier League quality to strengthen the team, I firmly believe we would have stayed up.

Last season Farkes task was even harder.

Great post.

[TheGunnShow 5,953]

31 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

No clue about the German league and I've only scanned the thread, so may already be answered above; but isn't the German cup a massive sprawling competition that poses Bundesliga clubs against all and sundry in the first round?

Still, as said by @shefcanary - you can only beat what's in front of you. 

Not quite all and sundry, but it does give that impression. Usually it's the top two divisions and then winners of regional cups to make 64 teams. SV Oberachern won the South Baden Cup and that was how they qualified. That's how you can have some bigger 3. Liga sides not in there, and some much smaller teams making it.

DFB-Pokal - Wikipedia

[yellowrider120 766]

1 hour ago, Matt Morriss said:

I think at this stage, after Smith failed so miserably with the same squad Farke had, and it being abundantly clear that the recruitment was so bad last season, that you have to be pretty clueless about football to suggest Farke was the problem.

Try going into a prem season after losing your best 2 players, having your hand forced with a supposed Chelsea wonderkid who turned out to be about as good as Fozzy Fotheringham, and being furnished with Bundesliga 2 forwards that just got their club relegated, and a Greek raw kid that clearly wasnt ready or suited to English football let alone the Premier League.

Everyone seems to forget our first season in the Prem. When we completely matched Man City and actually beat them. Nearly beat Arsenal, beat Leicester, and Spurs in the cup and for me the only reason we went down was 1 an horrendously bad injury run and 2 the obvious atrocious backing from Webber and the board.

Farke got given Patrick Roberts, Josip Drmic and Dennis Srbeny ffs and was told to go and keep us in the Prem.

Had we not had the bad luck of injuries, Covid and no fans, 0 centre backs at times and something like 11 players out at one time, and on top have actually given Farke some premier League quality to strengthen the team, I firmly believe we would have stayed up.

Last season Farkes task was even harder.

Re the 'Chelsea wonderkid' - a number of people have said it was actually Farke himself who pushed for this deal to happen!

Re Rashica and Sargent - No way would these signing have happened without Farke's agreement.

Re the 'Greek raw kid' - I take it you missed the hyperbole that gushed out of Farkes' mouth about this 'great young talent'??  

Re Roberts / Drmic / Srbeny - ditto my comments on Rashica and Sargent. 

Of course we all know that many of 'Webbers' signings have been flops but to then imply that it was 100% his fault and 0% Farke's fault is PR spin of the sort Putin would be proud of!

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

2-2 away draw to Schalke 04 today. 4 points from his first two games, both against teams who finished above Monchengladbach last season, strikes me as pretty healthy. 

[Sooty57 403]

On 31/07/2022 at 17:05, shefcanary said:

You can only beat what is in front of you.

I remember the good old days when we used to do that 😟

[Yellow Wal 314]

On 31/07/2022 at 19:43, Matt Morriss said:

I think at this stage, after Smith failed so miserably with the same squad Farke had, and it being abundantly clear that the recruitment was so bad last season, that you have to be pretty clueless about football to suggest Farke was the problem.

Try going into a prem season after losing your best 2 players, having your hand forced with a supposed Chelsea wonderkid who turned out to be about as good as Fozzy Fotheringham, and being furnished with Bundesliga 2 forwards that just got their club relegated, and a Greek raw kid that clearly wasnt ready or suited to English football let alone the Premier League.

Everyone seems to forget our first season in the Prem. When we completely matched Man City and actually beat them. Nearly beat Arsenal, beat Leicester, and Spurs in the cup and for me the only reason we went down was 1 an horrendously bad injury run and 2 the obvious atrocious backing from Webber and the board.

Farke got given Patrick Roberts, Josip Drmic and Dennis Srbeny ffs and was told to go and keep us in the Prem.

Had we not had the bad luck of injuries, Covid and no fans, 0 centre backs at times and something like 11 players out at one time, and on top have actually given Farke some premier League quality to strengthen the team, I firmly believe we would have stayed up.

Last season Farkes task was even harder.

Although I agree with much that you have written it is all irrelevant now.

Daniel Farke is not our manager and is very unlikely to ever be again. 

We need to move on, looking back at what could have been is not beneficial in  any way.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

8 minutes ago, Yellow Wal said:

Although I agree with much that you have written it is all irrelevant now.

Daniel Farke is not our manager and is very unlikely to ever be again. 

We need to move on, looking back at what could have been is not beneficial in  any way.

I've moved on, but it's nice to remind the idiots that wanted him gone just how much damage their stupid tantrums did. 

[repman 635]

19 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

2-2 away draw to Schalke 04 today. 4 points from his first two games, both against teams who finished above Monchengladbach last season, strikes me as pretty healthy. 

Schalke just got promoted from the 2nd division? 

[Creative Midfielder 1,999]

On 31/07/2022 at 17:54, The Real Buh said:

Even in Farkes first season you could see he was building something, trying to put an identity on the team

Exactly, the first season under Farke was very much a work in progress but you could see where he was trying to get to and that he was making progress.

Under Smith we have gone backwards as a team and perhaps even more worrying is that several of our better players have also gone backwards in terms of individual performance - that is why it makes no sense to 'give' him more time.

[The Real Buh 3,446]

10 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Exactly, the first season under Farke was very much a work in progress but you could see where he was trying to get to and that he was making progress.

Under Smith we have gone backwards as a team and perhaps even more worrying is that several of our better players have also gone backwards in terms of individual performance - that is why it makes no sense to 'give' him more time.

There was a place we were building to in that first season under Farke. You could see and feel it

i feel nothing but animosity to Dean Smith. Leave my club immediately 

[Capt. Pants 4,261]

BMG were 2-1 up but conceded a goal in the 3rd min of injury time. He still can't hold onto a lead in the top league!

[Virtual reality 712]

27 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I've moved on, but it's nice to remind the idiots that wanted him gone just how much damage their stupid tantrums did. 

It was a ridiculous decision to sack him with no genuine back up plan, But that decision was Webbers alone and had nothing to do with the fans turning on Farke, because they didn’t. A few mutterings on social media made no difference and did no damage to the club. Webber did all of that on his own 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Virtual reality

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 31/07/2022 at 19:43, Matt Morriss said:

I think at this stage, after Smith failed so miserably with the same squad Farke had, and it being abundantly clear that the recruitment was so bad last season, that you have to be pretty clueless about football to suggest Farke was the problem.

Try going into a prem season after losing your best 2 players, having your hand forced with a supposed Chelsea wonderkid who turned out to be about as good as Fozzy Fotheringham, and being furnished with Bundesliga 2 forwards that just got their club relegated, and a Greek raw kid that clearly wasnt ready or suited to English football let alone the Premier League.

Everyone seems to forget our first season in the Prem. When we completely matched Man City and actually beat them. Nearly beat Arsenal, beat Leicester, and Spurs in the cup and for me the only reason we went down was 1 an horrendously bad injury run and 2 the obvious atrocious backing from Webber and the board.

Farke got given Patrick Roberts, Josip Drmic and Dennis Srbeny ffs and was told to go and keep us in the Prem.

Had we not had the bad luck of injuries, Covid and no fans, 0 centre backs at times and something like 11 players out at one time, and on top have actually given Farke some premier League quality to strengthen the team, I firmly believe we would have stayed up.

Last season Farkes task was even harder.

The problem with the "bad luck with injuries" line is that it is widely accepted that Farkes double training sessions would have been a contributing factor. Michael Bailey reckons this is why we went for quantity last summer, concerns about the number of injuries that occur in a Farke team.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 hours ago, Virtual reality said:

It was a ridiculous decision to sack him with no genuine back up plan, But that decision was Webbers alone and had nothing to do with the fans turning on Farke, because they didn’t. A few mutterings on social media made no difference and did no damage to the club. Webber did all of that on his own 

Not having a replacement lined up was the biggest mistake.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

On 31/07/2022 at 15:16, essex canary said:

Irrelevant. Not a great test. Farke may do very well back in Germany. He didn't understand the physicality of English Football at top level albeit that his style at second tier level was great.

Simple!

He understood it, we just couldn't afford players with requisite skill AND the physicality that we needed.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Not having a replacement lined up was the biggest mistake.

Yep, this is the mystery, ok we ' had talks' with F Lampard, but that is not having someone lined up. If we did, and dropped them for the illustrious Dean Smith, they can't have been that outstanding, none of it makes sense and completely goes against succession planning at the first hurdle, as this was the first change of head coach since we changed tack, did we throw the baby out with the bathwater? 

[canarybubbles 1,924]

8 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

BMG were 2-1 up but conceded a goal in the 3rd min of injury time. He still can't hold onto a lead in the top league!

That saved a few blushes, though. Without that equaliser, BMG would have gone top of the Bundesliga on the day when we went bottom of the Championship.

I am assuming, of course, that Webber is capable of blushing.

[Big O 225]

It still hurts watching him galvanise another club. It goes to show the power of social media etc. The bit I never understood really was how the rhetoric was able to build against him.

if you spoke to most Norwich fans they would agree he stood no chance in the first premier league season with no money spent, however that record was then thrown against him when we had a bad start in the second season despite losing 2 of our best players and having to play Arsenal, Leicester, Man City and Liverpool in his opening games!

i Don’t think most fans had turned tbh but the Rob Butlers, TNC boys and other social media pages had started to and they appear to be worryingly more influential for younger fans then they should, given at the end of the day they are as clueless as the rest of us fans (although we are all well intentioned).

I am still hopeful that we will recover this season but the good feel around the club has gone and it feels like the fan base is heading to a split again over Delia, Webber and Smith. This will leads us back to a spell of championship mediocrity and probably looking over at Farke and remembering that magical period.

 

[TIL 1010 4,760]

15 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I've moved on, but it's nice to remind the idiots that wanted him gone just how much damage their stupid tantrums did. 

Since when did Webber take the slightest notice of what the fans may have said or wrote ?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

Just now, TIL 1010 said:

Since when did Webber take the slightest notice of what the fans may have said or wrote ?

I think that's unfair. If there was any proof needed that he does care what fans think it's the angry reaction he had to the abuse thrown at him by a handful of fans at the end of last season in person. 

[TIL 1010 4,760]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I think that's unfair. If there was any proof needed that he does care what fans think it's the angry reaction he had to the abuse thrown at him by a handful of fans at the end of last season in person. 

I should have added that he doesn't care a jot about what the fans think of how the team is playing or individuals involved in that but gets rather touchy when their anger is aimed at him.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

I should have added that he doesn't care a jot about what the fans think of how the team is playing or individuals involved in that but gets rather touchy when their anger is aimed at him.

Given that his job is to try and make the club as successful as possible on the resources available, I find it hard to believe that he doesn't share the frustration of most fans when things aren't going well. 

[TIL 1010 4,760]

8 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Given that his job is to try and make the club as successful as possible on the resources available, I find it hard to believe that he doesn't share the frustration of most fans when things aren't going well. 

My original point was that Webber did not act to dismiss Farke as a result of what fans said or wrote. He has total disdain for the fanbase.

[shruk4 60]

Mönchenglabach currently sit second in the Biundesliga

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

My original point was that Webber did not act to dismiss Farke as a result of what fans said or wrote. He has total disdain for the fanbase.

it's one of those ones that you can never know for sure, but the rhetoric from an increasing number of fans was getting increasingly impatient and toxic throughout social media to an extent that we hadn't seen since the first season under Farke. There were many on here, Twitter, and facebook calling Farke 'clueless', which was utterly disgusting in my view. 

Whatever you think of all of the other variables, whatever you think of the poor recruitment that summer, 11 games into the season there's only one change available to the club to try and get a positve reaction, which is a change of manager. The simple fact is that things were already starting to get toxic because it was clear many fans were unwilling to accept relegation as a likely outcome, be phlegmatic, and simply support instead of descending into nastiness and abuse in reaction to poor results, so if there'd been no change then, unless Farke had actually produced a genuine miracle and kept us up,  I am positive that we would have ended the season with the players effectively under siege from a lot of fans much like we saw towards the end of Hughton's second season.

Personally, I'm very confident that the mood of fans had a lot to do with the decision to change managers, because we know for a fact that, all else being equal, our club is not into sacking managers for the sake of it.

[TIL 1010 4,760]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

it's one of those ones that you can never know for sure, but the rhetoric from an increasing number of fans was getting increasingly impatient and toxic throughout social media to an extent that we hadn't seen since the first season under Farke. There were many on here, Twitter, and facebook calling Farke 'clueless', which was utterly disgusting in my view. 

Whatever you think of all of the other variables, whatever you think of the poor recruitment that summer, 11 games into the season there's only one change available to the club to try and get a positve reaction, which is a change of manager. The simple fact is that things were already starting to get toxic because it was clear many fans were unwilling to accept relegation as a likely outcome, be phlegmatic, and simply support instead of descending into nastiness and abuse in reaction to poor results, so if there'd been no change then, unless Farke had actually produced a genuine miracle and kept us up,  I am positive that we would have ended the season with the players effectively under siege from a lot of fans much like we saw towards the end of Hughton's second season.

Personally, I'm very confident that the mood of fans had a lot to do with the decision to change managers, because we know for a fact that, all else being equal, our club is not into sacking managers for the sake of it.

You appear to be saying that Webber was reading social media and this forum and took note of what he read. If that is so i disgree with respect.