Ins, Outs, Shake em all abouts - squad movement summer 2022

[hogesar 9,676]

23 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

I'd convert Sargent to a CDM, like Man U did with Fellaini. He's got energy, aerial ability, reasonable technique and he works hard.

He may well be good enough up front to get a few in the Champs but isn't Prem quality, so I'd look at him there next season.

I sincerely hope you're joking.

[shefcanary 2,409]

43 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

I'd convert Sargent to a CDM, like Man U did with Fellaini. He's got energy, aerial ability, reasonable technique and he works hard.

He may well be good enough up front to get a few in the Champs but isn't Prem quality, so I'd look at him there next season.

The Joelinton of the coming season.  Stranger things ....

[chicken 2,627]

10 hours ago, shefcanary said:

So, by my reckoning those in bold below contribute to the 25, except those that are in bold italics are "Home Grown".

A little key too: Blue players are U23's that have been part of matchday squads in the 2021-22 season, players in purple are returning from loans.

Goalkeepers: Krul(33), Gunn(26), McGovern(37), Barden(22), other players in U23's not listed here.
RB: Aarons(22), Byram(28, 29 in Sep), Mumba(20).
LB: Giannoulis(26), McCallum(21).
CB: Hanley(30), Gibson(29), Zimmermann(29), Omobamidele(19, 20 later this month), Tomkinson(20), Famewo(23), Bushiri(22),
CM (CM/DM): McLean(30), Lees-Melou(29), Sorensen(24), Gibbs(19), plus promising U23 players like Adshead who are yet to feature.
AM/Wing: Rashica(25, 26 this month), Cantwell(24), Tzolis(20), Placheta(24), Dowell(24), Hernandez(29), Martin(20, 21 in Sept), Springett(19), Rowe(19), Sinani(25),
Strikers: Pukki(32), Idah(21), Sargent(22), Hugill(30), Soto(21, 22 in July). Again, a few strikers in the U23's, Kamara(19) has been in training videos and I think match day squads. Others have been out on loan and are yet to show if they are ready for first team action.

So by my reckoning 27 contribute to the maximum, of which 13 are homegrown, potentially not as bloated as I thought, but with 10 U21's scope for filling the bench at all times too.  At least as it stands 2 of the above will miss out on being named in the squad all things being equal and at least 3 will miss out to allow for one new over 21 to come in.  Homegrown does not seem to be a major issue, although if at least 3 go who are all homegrown, the pressure then increases on the next incoming to be home grown too!  

So it would seem likely that at least 3 of the named squad will be moved on / released.  I actually previously thought a net 5 outflow would result, maybe that is now only a net 2.  A fairly harsh first guess:

• Outs: Krul, McGovern, Aarons, Cantwell, Famewo, Bushiri, Hugill.
• Ins: one GK, one CB, one CDM, one CAM, one striker, of which one minimum has to be home grown.

Let the games begin.

 

McGovern and McLean are not home grown. England and Wales for Homegrown. Krul and Hanley were signed up to English youth teams for the required time before their 21st Birthdays. McLean and McGovern were both in youth set ups outside of England and Wales. 🙂

Edit: Added the total number of homegrown players above 21.
Edit 2: Added number of players born before 01/01/2001 which is likely to be the new cut off. It's 26 as Idah's birthday is Feb so puts him just the other side of the line. 🙂

Edited June 6, 2022 by chicken

[Midlands Yellow 3,994]

7 hours ago, Fuzzar said:

I'd convert Sargent to a CDM, like Man U did with Fellaini. He's got energy, aerial ability, reasonable technique and he works hard.

He may well be good enough up front to get a few in the Champs but isn't Prem quality, so I'd look at him there next season.

Same hair style too if Josh lets it go wild in the summer. 

[shefcanary 2,409]

3 minutes ago, chicken said:

McGovern and McLean are not home grown. England and Wales for Homegrown. Krul and Hanley were signed up to English youth teams for the required time before their 21st Birthdays. McLean and McGovern were both in youth set ups outside of England and Wales. 🙂

I wasn't sure if they qualified by experience! 😅  So revised conclusion:

27 qualify for named squad, of which 11 homegrown, 10 u21's at least.  With my guess at churn:

• Outs: Krul, McGovern, Aarons, Cantwell, Famewo, Bushiri, Hugill.
• Ins: one GK, one CB, one CDM, one CAM, one striker, two at least of whom need to be home grown.

[chicken 2,627]

7 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

I wasn't sure if they qualified by experience! 😅  So revised conclusion:

27 qualify for named squad, of which 11 homegrown, 10 u21's at least.  With my guess at churn:

• Outs: Krul, McGovern, Aarons, Cantwell, Famewo, Bushiri, Hugill.
• Ins: one GK, one CB, one CDM, one CAM, one striker, two at least of whom need to be home grown.

26 - Idah is a Feb birthday so only 21 last Feb. As such he's not yet old enough to need to be named.

[Nuff Said 5,142]

8 hours ago, Fuzzar said:

I'd convert Sargent to a CDM, like Man U did with Fellaini. He's got energy, aerial ability, reasonable technique and he works hard.

He may well be good enough up front to get a few in the Champs but isn't Prem quality, so I'd look at him there next season.

👍

This is the sort of imaginative, left-field thinking the club ought to be encouraging. It could be similarly argued that Idah or even Hugill might do a job in that position. After all, one of our greatest ever defensive players started as a striker (for the younger supporters, I’m talking about the one and only Ginger Pele himself, Gary Doherty). Then we’ve got Bryam who is a quality player on his day but seems to be searching for the right position to play.  I’m sure with an open mind, we could come up with several more candidates within the squad for CDM. Thoughts?

[Jpootz 15]

I really hope we keep PLM and Rashica although I accept the latter may be off and the club might want to cash in on him. PLM especially has the ability to completely run games in the Championship and Rashica would terrify full backs at that level. 

[paddycanary 539]

9 hours ago, Fuzzar said:

I'd convert Sargent to a CDM, like Man U did with Fellaini. He's got energy, aerial ability, reasonable technique and he works hard.

He may well be good enough up front to get a few in the Champs but isn't Prem quality, so I'd look at him there next season.

 

"This is the sort of imaginative, left-field thinking the club ought to be encouraging. It could be similarly argued that Idah or even Hugill might do a job in that position. After all, one of our greatest ever defensive players started as a striker (for the younger supporters, I’m talking about the one and only Ginger Pele himself, Gary Doherty). Then we’ve got Bryam who is a quality player on his day but seems to be searching for the right position to play.  I’m sure with an open mind, we could come up with several more candidates within the squad for CDM. Thoughts?"

 

I assume the esteemed Fuzzar is throwing a little hand grenade in there for entertainment value. But I have to say Gary Doherty also flashed into my mind too in such a scenario. And I think I physically shuddered. 

If Aarons is off, I could see Josh Sargent playing well as an attacking right-sided option as well as being a useful forward and a great option off the bench, particularly if 3 CBs is going to be used more often. If we could sort out the ongoing deep midfielder position(s), some interesting options (currently on the books) as wing-backs could be Dimi, Rashica, Sargent and possibly Mumba, McCallum, Hernandez, Dowell, Tzolis, one or two of the youngsters.

If 3 at the back is explored more often, possible options already on the books are Hanley, Omobamidele, Gibson*, Zimmermann, Byram, Sorensen (who all have some history of being injured/unavailable at important times - perhaps that's virtually all players?) and possibly Tomkinson, McCallum...

 

* Have SAS lost faith in Gibson? Perhaps an experienced & reliable CB on a competitive wage for this level is close to the top of the shopping list?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 05/06/2022 at 16:47, Move Klose said:

Zimmermann

I just think this player is shot to pieces now, to the extent that we ought to perhaps consider paying him off early.

[canarybubbles 1,923]

He's a very smart guy, apparently, so if we did pay him off, he'd probably use the time productively rather than waste it on social media. But surely all that brain power could be used in some way? For example, as someone who helps overseas players adapt to life in the UK? From what we saw last season, we could do with some of that.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

17 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

👍

This is the sort of imaginative, left-field thinking the club ought to be encouraging. It could be similarly argued that Idah or even Hugill might do a job in that position. After all, one of our greatest ever defensive players started as a striker (for the younger supporters, I’m talking about the one and only Ginger Pele himself, Gary Doherty). Then we’ve got Bryam who is a quality player on his day but seems to be searching for the right position to play.  I’m sure with an open mind, we could come up with several more candidates within the squad for CDM. Thoughts?

Gary Doherty was Rus Martin before Rus Martin was even out of nappies.
Mr Marmite.
Personally thought Doc was sh1te as a striker and a liability as a defender. His MMA style armbar lunge takedowns were great at giving away penos.
Lord alive only man worse to have worn the shirt in that position was Sebastian Bassong. 

Once saw Doc at Norwich station, he moved like a gazelle down platform 2 to jump on that train to Liverpool Street as it was just about to pull away.... fastest I ever saw him move.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Nexus_Canary

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

17 hours ago, Jpootz said:

I really hope we keep PLM and Rashica although I accept the latter may be off and the club might want to cash in on him. PLM especially has the ability to completely run games in the Championship and Rashica would terrify full backs at that level. 

Who's going to want a player with back to back relegations?
Rachica hardly set the league on fire? Unless he puts in a transfer request and does a Cantwell expect to see him next season.
Cant get my head around why people think other teams are going to even want to come in for him, frankly after this season I doubt Max Aarons or Tim Krul are even on many shortlists. 
I think the most likely leavers would be Grant Hanley & Kenny McClean to be fair. Hanley had a great season and Kenny is always linked to a move north of the border. Scots seem very happy with underwhelming players hence Wee Billy Krankie is still highly rated.

[repman 635]

Made this chart to try and sum up where the squad is at currently. Clear that midfield needs addressing first. Also a clear out of the wide players. I kept the u23's down to the ones who have been around the first team so far, may have missed some still.

[jaberry2 550]

On 06/06/2022 at 22:25, Jpootz said:

I really hope we keep PLM and Rashica although I accept the latter may be off and the club might want to cash in on him. PLM especially has the ability to completely run games in the Championship and Rashica would terrify full backs at that level. 

I suspect Rashica will be off, assuming his wages are quite punchy and he'll probably feel he can play at a higher level. Most of the signings from last season could really benefit from a championship campaign and if there smart, they'd probably more likely to get a big money move at a later date rather than as it stands.

[shefcanary 2,409]

18 hours ago, repman said:

Made this chart to try and sum up where the squad is at currently. Clear that midfield needs addressing first. Also a clear out of the wide players. I kept the u23's down to the ones who have been around the first team so far, may have missed some still.

Thanks Repman, I have taken your table and updated it for Hayden's signing and to meet the EFL squad definition in order to better see what it might look like for squad registration purposes.

This hopefully makes it easier to see that following Hayden's signing we do now have to move someone on or they will be sitting on their hands all season as far as the EFL is concerned.  I suppose you could, say, just have McGovern for instance for cup matches, but more realistically I've updated my suggestion that the following movements may occur:

• Outs: Krul, McGovern, Aarons, Cantwell, Famewo, Bushiri, Hugill.
• Ins: one GK, one CB, one CAM, one striker, one at least of whom needs to be home grown.
• This would still leave two spaces available to reach the EFL named squad limit, so I've probably been over zealous here!

[Yellow Green Army 237]

On 06/06/2022 at 22:25, Jpootz said:

I really hope we keep PLM and Rashica although I accept the latter may be off and the club might want to cash in on him. PLM especially has the ability to completely run games in the Championship and Rashica would terrify full backs at that level. 

I haven’t seen anything to suggest that Rashica will terrify Championship defenders. He did ok this season and no more. He certainly has the ability and potential to but I’m not as confident as some on here!

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

23 hours ago, Nexus_Canary said:

.Lord alive only man worse to have worn the shirt in that position was Sebastian Bassong.

If we're talking "worn the shirt more than 10 times" then I largely agree, although never understood how McGovern and Segura were making a living in the game (and they largely didn't after leaving us)

If we're including players who were so sh*t that they didn't manage the 10, then I'd like throw the name Steve Walsh into the mix, and might contribute a few more when my brains less sleep deprived.

Edited June 8, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 hours ago, Yellow Green Army said:

I haven’t seen anything to suggest that Rashica will terrify Championship defenders. He did ok this season and no more. He certainly has the ability and potential to but I’m not as confident as some on here!

Agree, but he'll achieve better numbers just by virtue of being in a better team relative to opponents. 

So he'll score more goals, and assist more goals, but won't get promoted and suddenly appear in the Prem as a significantly improved player. 

[shefcanary 2,409]

Update after Hibs took up option on Bushiri.  No idea what the option fee was, but unlikely to have troubled the transfer budget.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

19 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Agree, but he'll achieve better numbers just by virtue of being in a better team relative to opponents. 

So he'll score more goals, and assist more goals, but won't get promoted and suddenly appear in the Prem as a significantly improved player. 

In fairness to Rasher , he's had a tricky first season, shown the odd flash of ability but not set the world alight. If Smitho can rebuild the team how he wants it then either offloading or fully incorporating Rasher are the only options. ( Too expensive to be a bit part player)....I'm at a loss as to which is the right call, hopefully DS has a clear vision if what he's doing in the next few weeks.

 

[Mr Angry 1,562]

On 05/06/2022 at 18:06, astro said:

I’m gobsmacked that Dowell is only 24 - I thought he was at least 30! 

He reminds me somewhat of Benedict Cumberbatch 😳

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,323]

Origi been released by Pool, maybe we can finally get him in 😉

 

On a serious note they've also released Ben Woodburn, would he be a decent punt for the creativity issues? 

[Indy 3,300]

8 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Origi been released by Pool, maybe we can finally get him in 😉

 

On a serious note they've also released Ben Woodburn, would he be a decent punt for the creativity issues? 

I heard Oxford are trying their best to sign Woodburn who was on loans a couple seasons ago. Decent player just injury prone.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,323]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

I heard Oxford are trying their best to sign Woodburn who was on loans a couple seasons ago. Decent player just injury prone.

Must admit I'd just seen on a summer transfer page about players released by liverpool etc. 

I don't know why I honestly thought he'd been playing higher up the divisions then at Oxford. 🤷

[1902 1,167]

On 08/06/2022 at 12:01, Yellow Green Army said:

I haven’t seen anything to suggest that Rashica will terrify Championship defenders. He did ok this season and no more. He certainly has the ability and potential to but I’m not as confident as some on here!

I mean, the gap is so huge that it's quite possible he will tear the championship apart. It's always a mystery how people deal with that particular shift. 

Obviously a different position but Mitrovic going from 3 in 27 to 43 in 44 rather proves that point.

[shefcanary 2,409]

32 minutes ago, Indy said:

I heard Oxford are trying their best to sign Woodburn who was on loans a couple seasons ago. Decent player just injury prone.

He was at Sheffield United on loan for a half season, played 7 games and didn't impress at all, so the loan was not extended.  I think that's a no.

[chicken 2,627]

Updated the first page with outs, even released player info as well as Hayden in. 

[Samwam27 527]

Would anyone take a punt on Fabian Delph or Gylfi Sigurdsson for the season ahead, having been released by Everton, both in their 30's though.

Always used to like Gylfi, but not sure he's the player he used to be?

[Ken Hairy 3,773]

4 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

Would anyone take a punt on Fabian Delph or Gylfi Sigurdsson for the season ahead, having been released by Everton, both in their 30's though.

Always used to like Gylfi, but not sure he's the player he used to be?

Is he still not playing alongside Mendy for Strangeways United?