Seriously thinking we should get Farke back!

[Danke bitte 966]

Smith doesn’t feel like Norwich but I’m 100% sure he will galvanise a team we can all get behind when given the chance. We’ve been lucky to witness Farke’s magic touch in those first few seasons but he quickly found his ceiling. 

Smith, given time, will create a team that can both get promoted from the Champ and make a damn good show of it in the Premier League. It’s not going to be pretty but then it wasn’t when we got relegated under Alex Neil and flapped for that first Champ season under him. 

[The Bristol Nest 517]

Hasn't he already been given a chance?

Edited April 3, 2022 by The Bristol Nest

[Coneys Knee 975]

9 hours ago, Danke bitte said:

Smith doesn’t feel like Norwich but I’m 100% sure he will galvanise a team we can all get behind when given the chance. We’ve been lucky to witness Farke’s magic touch in those first few seasons but he quickly found his ceiling. 

Smith, given time, will create a team that can both get promoted from the Champ and make a damn good show of it in the Premier League. It’s not going to be pretty but then it wasn’t when we got relegated under Alex Neil and flapped for that first Champ season under him. 

I want to believe this but I feel it’s just blind optimism. What do you see in smith that makes you believe he will get us promoted and then competitive in the premier league?

This is a serious question. I’m not spoiling for an argument, you may well  be correct, and I hope you are. I just don’t see it at all I’m afraid. God I hope I’m wrong.

[kingsway 94]

No person on this planet could keep our shower of a squad up this season!

 

Smith has got a decent track record and needs a full season next season to see what he can do!

 

Farke was a great Championship manager but in the Premier he was woeful and wouldn't ever change his methods!

 

Norwich was allegedly the 11th biggest spenders on transfer fees in Europe last summer so the Board can't be accused of not backing the Manager. Webber poor recruitment even with a reasonable fund has been awful in the top flight and now his stock has dropped big time, he knows hes not going to be moving up the ladder to a bigger club so is now happy along with wife to hang around!

[TheBaldOne66 690]

14 hours ago, Petriix said:

Farke gave us the two best seasons in the club's history. What has Smith given us? Abject failure. No coherent plan. The same tactical mistakes over and over again. He's a fraud.

2 best seasons in clubs history? You are joking aren’t you? We won Milk Cup, League Cup, qualified for Europe, top 5 finishes in top flight under different managers, yet winning the second tier was better, even though other managers did that too? 
 

You sum up all that is wrong with the bring back Farke brigade as you fail to remember what he actually did last time around in the EPL too!

 

[BroadstairsR 2,178]

It is not unknown for managers to return to clubs that they left for various reasons. Time heals.

Mike walker returned to Norwich. Eddie Howe returned to Bournemouth and I'm quite sure some of the notorious merry-go-round crewe have done the same (Steve Bruce?)

I suspect that Daniel Farke is too proud an individual to return to Carrow Road at any time in the near future.

I also suspect that he was more hurt by that sacking than most of those whose first reaction is to look at their bank account and towards the next available appointment.

Edited April 3, 2022 by BroadstairsR

[Mr Angry 1,563]

Maybe Smith isn't up to the job-but if the job is trying to keep us in the Premier League, neither was DF-why would you want him back? Outstanding in the Championship, outstandingly bad in the PL. If he got us promoted next year we'd have to replace him for the next crack at survival the following season.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

Sacking the manager will make zero difference. A change in culture and a DoF that is any good would...

[Indy 3,301]

6 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Maybe Smith isn't up to the job-but if the job is trying to keep us in the Premier League, neither was DF-why would you want him back? Outstanding in the Championship, outstandingly bad in the PL. If he got us promoted next year we'd have to replace him for the next crack at survival the following season.

Yes but we have to get back up to have that problem! Not sure Smith is capable of that on a budget, he needs to be bankrolled to get a team into the top 6! Time will tel.

[corbs 147]

I’m always sceptical of comments like “ he’s a good championship player/manager - but can’t cut it in the premiership” etc Players, Managers can develop etc. I remember people said Grant H was not going to be good enough for the 2nd Tier! My wba fiend always reminds me we were doing ok before lockdown under Daniel (after the Leicester win). As for this season, well, we aren’t doing better are we. Anyway let’s back the current duo and never mind the danger. 

[Van wink 2,994]

Too late now, never really works when you bring someone back and not a serious option obviously.

However, we should never have let him go, would feel so much more comfortable looking forward to next season with Farke at the helm. Serious mistake to get rid of him, he epitomised our club for me and gave us such great times. Deserved better.

[Mengo 824]

18 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Sacking the manager will make zero difference. A change in culture and a DoF that is any good would...

be a 👍 good start. 

[astro 360]

1 hour ago, kingsway said:

No person on this planet could keep our shower of a squad up this season!

 

Smith has got a decent track record and needs a full season next season to see what he can do!

 

Farke was a great Championship manager but in the Premier he was woeful and wouldn't ever change his methods!

 

Norwich was allegedly the 11th biggest spenders on transfer fees in Europe last summer so the Board can't be accused of not backing the Manager. Webber poor recruitment even with a reasonable fund has been awful in the top flight and now his stock has dropped big time, he knows hes not going to be moving up the ladder to a bigger club so is now happy along with wife to hang around!

Surely you’ve just contradicted yourself in the first and third sentences? If the squad wasn’t good enough, why did we sack the manager? 

[Mr Angry 1,563]

15 minutes ago, corbs said:

I’m always sceptical of comments like “ he’s a good championship player/manager - but can’t cut it in the premiership” etc Players, Managers can develop etc. I remember people said Grant H was not going to be good enough for the 2nd Tier! My wba fiend always reminds me we were doing ok before lockdown under Daniel (after the Leicester win). As for this season, well, we aren’t doing better are we. Anyway let’s back the current duo and never mind the danger. 

We weren’t really though-6 points off safety and a goal difference 10 worse than teams in the safety zone.

[kingsway 94]

15 minutes ago, astro said:

Surely you’ve just contradicted yourself in the first and third sentences? If the squad wasn’t good enough, why did we sack the manager? 

The change had to happen cause Farke had gone as far as he could, wasn't going to alter his ways, didn't look like he could get anymore out of the players who needed a differant voice and direction and the club had to be seen to be doing something to rescue the season. Also the unsavoury atmosphere at Palace just after Xmas and other games around that time would have seen Farke absolutely slaughtered by some fans which would have been a sad way for a guy who gave us 2 fantastic League winning campaigns to finish. An away win for Farke was a class wasy to bow out!

 

For me personally the ego monster that is Webber has to take the blame cause he was the one that signed the players and now he realises hes not going to get an offer from a bigger club is happy along with his wife to linger on at our club gaining a large income when in the past he made it very clear he saw Norwich City as a stepping stone. Its also notable at present how little we see or hear from him. I'm sure if this season would have been a success he'd be seen and heard nearly all the time!

 

In summary, no I wasn't contradicting myself!

Edited April 3, 2022 by kingsway

[Coneys Knee 975]

I keep reading things like “Farke couldn’t cut it in the Prem” and such like.

I just don’t agree. You don’t have to be that amazing to cut it in the Prem, what you do need is resources. 
 

I don’t honestly believe the likes of Steve Bruce, Eddie Howe, watfords managers, Sean dyche, viera etc are better coaches than Farke, but they do tend to get better players to go with.

This is where I have my doubts with Smith. He had a ridiculous amount of resources with Villa and only just scraped a promotion and a survival.

If Farke had the resources of his peers I’m confident he’d outperform them. Very confident in fact but we’ll never know.
 

Webber bought absolute tripe and he had no chance. Equally neither does smith, but I feel like smith wouldn’t cut it in the Prem even with resources. With what he had a Villa he underperformed without doubt.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

16 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Works for Watford right? Just sack your manager and relace him every two months works fine they are winning every match and are in the top six!

Theyre above us

[Indy 3,301]

9 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Theyre above us

Everyone is above us!

[HoolaOHoolahan 21]

Dean Smith was(is) not the manager we needed. I would rather we had kept Farke, but we haven't.

Despite being told by the media and Villa/Brentford fans and others how good Dean Smith is I have yet to see any evidence of it. Some really bland football and he seems as out his depth as some of our new signings.

I started out underwhelmed and it's gone downhill from there.

I hope I can look back on this in a year and think I was wrong, but my gut feeling is we got a mid championship level manager and that's where will be in 12 months time. (Not Dean Smiths fault, he's just bang average)

Would have been nice to have heard something from Stuart Webber, maybe just to admit he got it badly wrong again.But he clearly can't find a way to spin this in any favourable way. Recruitment of players Poor (In hindsight) Handling of Manager (Poor) Sacking Farke after a win wasn't classy.   Then the managers haven't been able to get any decent performances from the players we do have. We're in a worse position than 12 months ago, I really hope the slide stops there.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by HoolaOHoolahan

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,138]

It's a cliche to say this, but you can't really judge Smith on what we've seen so far this season. These are not his players and he has no midfield to work with.

He clearly has a playing philosophy as evidenced by his time at Brentford and Villa, but he can't implement it here with such a low quality midfield to work with. he could've tried, like Farke did to get these players playing his style come what may, but our points haul would be even worse than it is now.

He was brought in to try to keep us up and he correctly identified that we were incapable playing through the thirds in this division because of the giant empty void in the middle of our team so he went with a more pragmatic approach, it's not worked, but it was the right decision to give us any chance at all.

Judge him next season when he'll have some of his own players and the overall quality of the team will be adequate for the division that we're in to actually impose ourselves on the opposition.

Calling for Farke to come back won't help anything. We're all mad because we struggle so much in this league, bringing him back would doom us to yo-yo forever because his style of play does not work in this league. His style of football is slow, methodical and relies on individual quality in the final third to make things happen, every other team in this league plays a high intensity, high energy game with fast, physical players and we would just get overrun and over powered every game again like we did before.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Christoph Stiepermann

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

Farke should not have been sacked. I said it at the time and have said it ever since. Whilst I would be over the moon if he returned, it could never happen.

Farke struggled in his first season with us to find the right formula, perfectly acceptable in a transition season, so in fairness Smith needs the same grace period. Though sacking Farke when we did suggests we rather hoped Smith would be a manager that could hit the ground running and get what the board considered an underperforming squad grinding out results.

That clearly hasnt happened and perhaps reveals poor judgement on the part of the club, in a) how they evalated the ability of the players/success of their recruitment - ie Daniel had been wasting a squad of world beaters and b) how much they didnt value everything Farke brought to the table, as outlined in the OP.

The board now know what most of us also felt - the problem was not the manager. And to blame him for being handed a wooden sword felt like a cheap shot.

Yes Daniel's Premier League record was woeful. But was that because he was a terrible manager? Or because, in PL terms, he had a terrible squad? 

The question is, could Farke, like he did in his first championship season, have eventually found the right formula. We'll never know. Brentford felt like a turning point after a difficult run of fixtures, which made the sacking even more of a gut-punch. For me sacking Farke was throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 

It does raise the question though, when is the right time to sack Farke? Let's say the board decide that Farke is unable to adapt to the Premier League, that his way of playing wont work in the Prem and he cant change. Lets say the board say 'what is needed to win the championship is radically different to what is needed to stay up in the Premier League'. Lets say the board decide a long term change in philosophy is needed, such that the club need an approach that is effective in the championship, but also in the premier league, without the approach needing drastic change depending on what division we're in. If Farke cant do that (create a style/approach that the club can embed that will both win the division and have a chance of staying up rather than one or the other) and you identify that another manager Smith can, at what point does it become acceptable to make the switch? 11 games after given Farke a 4 year contract and 11 games into a season when you've allegedly given him a bazooka to replace his wooden sword seems harsh. BUT, if you want to roll the dice and maybe change the fortunes this season if you've already made the decision to make a departure, the earlier the better. And if Smith is your man, and you believe the tripe that Webber knew of Smith's sacking before it happened, then you need to pounce - but then why wait 2 weeks to appoint him - making Farke's sacking in the away dressing room not even allowing him to return to the comforts of his home excessively and unnecessarily brutal - something I would have thought his achievements with the club should have spared him, even out of basic human decency.

 

I personally think Farke was treated disgustingly by the club. I thought it at the time, I still think it now and I doubt my feelings on this will ever change. I thought as a club we were better than that, so it was quite a shock to me that it went down the way it did. Contemptable.

 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

19 minutes ago, HoolaOHoolahan said:

Dean Smith was(is) not the manager we needed. I would rather we had kept Farke, but we haven't.

Despite being told by the media and Villa/Brentford fans and others how good Dean Smith is I have yet to see any evidence of it. Some really bland football and he seems as out his depth as some of our new signings.

I started out underwhelmed and it's gone downhill from there.

I hope I can look back on this in a year and think I was wrong, but my gut feeling is we got a mid championship level manager and that's where will be in 12 months time. (Not Dean Smiths fault, he's just bang average)

Would have been nice to have heard something from Stuart Webber, maybe just to admit he got it badly wrong again.But he clearly can't find a way to spin this in any favourable way. Recruitment of players Poor (In hindsight) Handling of Manager (Poor) Sacking Farke after a win wasn't classy.   Then the managers haven't been able to get any decent performances from the players we do have. We're in a worse position than 12 months ago, I really hope the slide stops there.

 

 

 

 

 

I personally, at this point dont see it either. Smith doesnt seem an upgrade on Farke, far from it. And whilst he has a low bar at present in terms of matching/exceeding Farke's performance, if he is still our manager next season its about to get a hell of a lot harder for him to match or exceed Farke.

Farke not only won the Championship twice, the second time he did it after a crushing relegation. Farke changed a team used to losing into a team of winners again. He re-instilled the winning mentality. No mean feat at all. 

Smith's bar for next season is about to get as high as it gets. I dont see how he could possibly do anything next season that could surpass Farke - which will leave many a canary still unconviced he is an upgrade.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

32 minutes ago, Indy said:

Everyone is above us!

Exactly. We are hardly in a position to be scoffing at other teams

[Indy 3,301]

Just now, The Great Mass Debater said:

Exactly. We are hardly in a position to be scoffing at other teams

Indeed, I’d be very happy to sack Smith and get Robins in, someone who can get a team playing good football on a tight budget and someone we can get behind! That’s just my view!

[A Load of Squit 5,171]

Farke is currently the 'go to' guy for disgruntled Championship supporters.

I've been asked about him by a QPR fan, a Cardiff fan and a Blackburn fan.

We could be facing Farkeball next season. 😀 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

16 minutes ago, Indy said:

Indeed, I’d be very happy to sack Smith and get Robins in, someone who can get a team playing good football on a tight budget and someone we can get behind! That’s just my view!

Id like to believe Smith is part of a long term vision for the club. Webber alleged to be a long-term admirer.

But many things make me nervous about that. Not least the messiness of Farke's sacking.

Other clubs, when they have a new man in sight have often installed the new manager by the end of the day. Shock announcement of the sacking of first manager. Even more shock that new manager is in later that day or the next day, making it seem like a well thought out plan.

Our situation reminded me more of when Wolves sacked Mick McCarthy, then found noone they coveted wanted the job and they had no choice but to give the job to his assistant manager. Just like when in previous years, we scoured Europe for the best coaches, only to discover that the best coach in Europe happened to be one of our ex-players all along!

 

Id buy the 'Webber knew Smith was about to become available' guff if we had appointed him swiftly after Farke's sacking (with it's brutality justified by the need to snap up Smith') rather than the sh*t show we engaged in with Fat Frank and Knutsen.

 

Im not convinced Smith was anything other than a panic appointment which hasnt moved the needle at all.

 

But I hope Im wrong. I hope the abject perfromances, the erratic tactical set-ups, all of it is just Smith trying to work with what he's got, having acknowledged what he's got isnt good enough, and that next season he will build the team in his own image and develop a coherent approach to the game. But equally, if he f*cked off at the end of the season and we brought someone else in, I wouldnt be bothered in the slightest.

 

The dream ticket would be new owners, new board and DoF - Daniel back, everything forgiven.

Edited April 3, 2022 by The Great Mass Debater

[Coneys Knee 975]

Another thing…. “You can’t judge Smith yet, it’s not his team”. Of course he can be judged, and it is his team. Yes it was inherited but a football coach is a football coach and players are players. If he was that much better than we had, we would have seen improvement to some degree even if it wasn’t enough to get to 17th.

Im sorry but Dean Smith should not get a free pass on this season.

[A Load of Squit 5,171]

31 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Farke is currently the 'go to' guy for disgruntled Championship supporters.

I've been asked about him by a QPR fan, a Cardiff fan and a Blackburn fan.

We could be facing Farkeball next season. 😀 

I'm expecting a call from a Rangers fan sometime in the next hour. 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

1 hour ago, Coneys Knee said:

I keep reading things like “Farke couldn’t cut it in the Prem” and such like.

I just don’t agree. You don’t have to be that amazing to cut it in the Prem, what you do need is resources. 
 

I don’t honestly believe the likes of Steve Bruce, Eddie Howe, watfords managers, Sean dyche, viera etc are better coaches than Farke, but they do tend to get better players to go with.

This is where I have my doubts with Smith. He had a ridiculous amount of resources with Villa and only just scraped a promotion and a survival.

If Farke had the resources of his peers I’m confident he’d outperform them. Very confident in fact but we’ll never know.
 

Webber bought absolute tripe and he had no chance. Equally neither does smith, but I feel like smith wouldn’t cut it in the Prem even with resources. With what he had a Villa he underperformed without doubt.

He did as good as Gerrard if not better..

[Indy 3,301]

3 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

He did as good as Gerrard if not better..

Gerrard has a 8wins, 2 Draws and 6 defeat record! That’s taking over the team that’s not his own! As some keep bleating the main reason Smith looks so out of depth! 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Indy