If we're paying them...play them!

[Jimmy_Fitch 47]

We are all aware of the falling outs with players and Daniel Farke in the past. Once a player has fallen out with the boss they never play for Norwich again.

I can understand that there needs to be respect for the coach and there should be no exceptions to this. 

However, what about the players who haven't had a bust up with the gaffer, but are simply not good enough to make the squad, we're still paying them so should we not be playing them? 

The two players that come to mind are Timm Klose and Tom Trybull. 

I don't think either player is better than what we currently have in our squad. Trybull is no better than Sorenson, but these are the only two recognised CDMs at the club and if we fail to get another CDM in before the windows slams shut, isn't Trybull good enough to include in the squad? Should he be training everyday and playing for the u21s and possibly playing in cup games?

The same applies for Klose, Timm Klose has to be better than a midfielder filling in at centre back. We're all two aware of how quickly our current center backs can pick up injuries. 

Playing players in cup games and for the u21s also makes them available for other clubs to scout, so if we're looking to offload them, yet again playing them in some fashion makes a lot of sense.

[Yobocop 1,443]

1 hour ago, Jimmy_Fitch said:

We are all aware of the falling outs with players and Daniel Farke in the past. Once a player has fallen out with the boss they never play for Norwich again.

I can understand that there needs to be respect for the coach and there should be no exceptions to this. 

However, what about the players who haven't had a bust up with the gaffer, but are simply not good enough to make the squad, we're still paying them so should we not be playing them? 

The two players that come to mind are Timm Klose and Tom Trybull. 

I don't think either player is better than what we currently have in our squad. Trybull is no better than Sorenson, but these are the only two recognised CDMs at the club and if we fail to get another CDM in before the windows slams shut, isn't Trybull good enough to include in the squad? Should he be training everyday and playing for the u21s and possibly playing in cup games?

The same applies for Klose, Timm Klose has to be better than a midfielder filling in at centre back. We're all two aware of how quickly our current center backs can pick up injuries. 

Playing players in cup games and for the u21s also makes them available for other clubs to scout, so if we're looking to offload them, yet again playing them in some fashion makes a lot of sense.

Neither player are good enough and the aforementioned Klose is more injury prone than Hanley and Gibson combined 

Norwich have used the loan market effectively the off load these pieces of deadwood (inc Drmic) but also to blood youngsters whilst saving on payroll at the same time 

[Dr Greenthumb 792]

6 hours ago, Jimmy_Fitch said:

We are all aware of the falling outs with players and Daniel Farke in the past. Once a player has fallen out with the boss they never play for Norwich again.

I can understand that there needs to be respect for the coach and there should be no exceptions to this. 

However, what about the players who haven't had a bust up with the gaffer, but are simply not good enough to make the squad, we're still paying them so should we not be playing them? 

The two players that come to mind are Timm Klose and Tom Trybull. 

I don't think either player is better than what we currently have in our squad. Trybull is no better than Sorenson, but these are the only two recognised CDMs at the club and if we fail to get another CDM in before the windows slams shut, isn't Trybull good enough to include in the squad? Should he be training everyday and playing for the u21s and possibly playing in cup games?

The same applies for Klose, Timm Klose has to be better than a midfielder filling in at centre back. We're all two aware of how quickly our current center backs can pick up injuries. 

Playing players in cup games and for the u21s also makes them available for other clubs to scout, so if we're looking to offload them, yet again playing them in some fashion makes a lot of sense.

Neither are good enough. So there’s no point in playing them! 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

Agree with some of the OP. I hate the practice of freezing out players as it crashes their value to the club and damages the player’s career unnecessarily. 

While with Klose it is pretty clear that he just isn’t at the level Norwich need anymore - injuries and time have caught up with him. I would put Sorensen in defence ahead of Klose at the moment. He doesn’t need to be completely frozen out - I saw he was in Switzerland while the rest of the team were training. How does this help anyone? 

Trybull is a slightly different case - he is still a Championship level midfielder and if Norwich are switching to a three man midfield, his deficiencies in pace and mobility would be mitigated. He is very good at interceptions and in the tackle (regularly coming close to the top in those metrics for the Championship). 

I can understand that Norwich are looking to sell, but why he can’t be included in the squad like Hugill and Hernandez - two other players the club would be happy to sell - is a bit of a mystery.  

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,633]

The Trybull situation did surprise me tbh. After relegation, I thought Farke would keep him involved - particularly after his successful 18/19 Championship season. He's a limited player, but excellent at what he does. However, Championship is his level. 

Klose is done for me. His body is no longer up to it, and he's no where near the player we signed x amount of years ago. Having said that, If he's here, surely he's good to have around the squad?  Despite being surplus to requirements, I don't get the need to keep good pro's away from the rest of the first team.  

[curious yellow 184]

Sorensen and Zimmerman are ahead of them in the reckoning for those positions but neither played. 

On the other hand it could be said that Trybull is better at breaking up an attack than any of the midfielders that played on Saturday. We set ourselves such high standards and that can be our undoing in the short run. 

Paul Lambert's side that got promoted survived two seasons before Hughton tried to improve it. Alex Neil's side deteriorated when he spent big money. 

Trybull and Klose have been good servants to the club which is why we gave them long contracts. 

[Jimmy_Fitch 47]

3 hours ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Neither are good enough. So there’s no point in playing them! 

 

7 hours ago, Yobocop said:

Neither player are good enough and the aforementioned Klose is more injury prone than Hanley and Gibson combined 

Norwich have used the loan market effectively the off load these pieces of deadwood (inc Drmic) but also to blood youngsters whilst saving on payroll at the same time 

Not good enough to play for the U21s? I disagree.

Players like Klose and Trybull are also really good with younger players, I believe Trybull is already working on his coaching badges and has aspirations to be a youth coach.

But as I said in my original post, we're still paying them so should they not still be turning up for training every day? 

I remember a few years ago when Josh Murphy fell out of favour, Klose was very influential in getting him back into the fold. Josh had "fallen off the boat" or something to that extent. Was probably because he wanted to follow his brother to the Premier League. But if it wasn't for Klose's contribution we may have not got as much money for him, no doubt he would have put a transfer request in.

 

[Monty13 2,736]

I’ve never liked us freezing out players. If someone has done something truly unforgivable fair enough, but if they are just deemed surplus to requirements I don’t get the action, it seems unnecessary and counterproductive to offloading them.

[AJ 1,358]

18 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I’ve never liked us freezing out players. If someone has done something truly unforgivable fair enough, but if they are just deemed surplus to requirements I don’t get the action, it seems unnecessary and counterproductive to offloading them.

I guess their view might be that it's detrimental to the squad to have players moping around moaning about not getting game time. The first team squad does appear to be isolated in this way. I'm not a fan of the treatment either but after 2 back to back championship titles you can't argue with the results...

[king canary 8,751]

2 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Agree with some of the OP. I hate the practice of freezing out players as it crashes their value to the club and damages the player’s career unnecessarily. 

While with Klose it is pretty clear that he just isn’t at the level Norwich need anymore - injuries and time have caught up with him. I would put Sorensen in defence ahead of Klose at the moment. He doesn’t need to be completely frozen out - I saw he was in Switzerland while the rest of the team were training. How does this help anyone? 

Trybull is a slightly different case - he is still a Championship level midfielder and if Norwich are switching to a three man midfield, his deficiencies in pace and mobility would be mitigated. He is very good at interceptions and in the tackle (regularly coming close to the top in those metrics for the Championship). 

I can understand that Norwich are looking to sell, but why he can’t be included in the squad like Hugill and Hernandez - two other players the club would be happy to sell - is a bit of a mystery.  

Klose especially, he's a player who has been a long term servant at the club, displayed leadership qualities and his last appearances in a Norwich shirt involved him getting on the pitch before he was likely fit in order to help us during an injury crisis. It feels a bit mean spirited to shift him out.

[g00se 33]

5 minutes ago, king canary said:

Klose especially, he's a player who has been a long term servant at the club, displayed leadership qualities and his last appearances in a Norwich shirt involved him getting on the pitch before he was likely fit in order to help us during an injury crisis. It feels a bit mean spirited to shift him out.

And also:

 

[hogesar 10,762]

I find it really hard to comment without knowing the individual situations, and what's going on behind the scenes.

For all we know Trybull has said he doesn't want to be a bit-part, has no interest in playing and wants to keep injury free for his next move. I'm not saying that's the case, but it's possible, right?

Equally it's hard to side with either. If a player wants a move they have the control to down tools. Equally when a club wants rid of a player they try and force them out. There's not, in reality, any loyalty either side.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

Is there a reason why neither player mentioned cannot find clubs?

[Ulfotto 798]

I agree it seems harsh from the outside but I think the idea is one of clarity for all sides. Trybull and Klose know exactly where they stand. Harsh though it may be.

plus the closer we get to the transfer deadline the more likely loans moves are as I expect Norwich will drop the percentage of wages the loaner team will have to pay. I would expect Trybull to find a championship club before the window closes.

[sgncfc 1,330]

Have to say that I disagree completely. If a player isn't part of the overall plan, it is downright stupid to try to shoehorn them into a team to the detriment of someone who is. Farke has decided neither is good enough for the first team squad, and he has never changed his mind about a player once made up. Contractually we have to keep paying their base salary, but those contracts may well contain extras based on performances, results, goals, assists, tackles made, passes completed etc. Why would we pay them more?

For Klose, you could maybe make a case that he could help coach the junior teams in order to earn his money, but if he wants to keep playing why should he? I'm a bit surprised someone in the lower Champs or League One hasn't come in for either of them but the stats and research these days is so sophisticated it is telling that there is no interest, even paying only a small part of their salary.

It's our fault for giving them both lengthy and lucrative contracts.

[Jimmy_Fitch 47]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Is there a reason why neither player mentioned cannot find clubs?

My guess is that Klose was hoping for an Alex Tettey situation where he is able to move back home and then focus on a career after playing. Due to the pandemic it's probably a lot harder to liase with clubs abroad. 

Trybull is an interesting one as he done OK at Blackburn but never had the same impact as he had here when he first came to the club on trial. 

If a player refuses to be a bit-part player, I'm surprised there is not something in a players contract in regards to this which means the club can terminate the contract. Saying that, both players appear good professionals so I doubt that is the case. 

Let's also look at it another way and of course this is hyperthetical. Pukki is now 31, I believe he's contract expires at the end of the 22/23 season with a 1 year option for the club. If he's recent covid diagnosis means he takes a really long time to get back to 100% match fit and in the interim we play Josh Sargent and by Christmas Sargent has 10 goals. Is that it for Pukki? Next year is he not given a squad number and is asked to train away from the group? He'll be 32 years old, out of form and out of favour.

Or will the coaching staff respect that he is one of the greatest strikers we have ever had at the club and so will always leave the door open for him?

Edited August 19, 2021 by Jimmy_Fitch

[Monty13 2,736]

1 hour ago, AJ said:

I guess their view might be that it's detrimental to the squad to have players moping around moaning about not getting game time. The first team squad does appear to be isolated in this way. I'm not a fan of the treatment either but after 2 back to back championship titles you can't argue with the results...

Possibly, but I’m not convinced how disruptive they’d be, we’ve got plenty of bit part squad players. I’m not sure how much you can link our success on the pitch to this strategy either, seems a reach.

[Mello Yello 2,572]

I bet Harry Kane's popular with the Spud's support......A wantaway but still collecting his salary..... 

[Dr Greenthumb 792]

3 hours ago, Jimmy_Fitch said:

 

Not good enough to play for the U21s? I disagree.

Players like Klose and Trybull are also really good with younger players, I believe Trybull is already working on his coaching badges and has aspirations to be a youth coach.

But as I said in my original post, we're still paying them so should they not still be turning up for training every day? 

I remember a few years ago when Josh Murphy fell out of favour, Klose was very influential in getting him back into the fold. Josh had "fallen off the boat" or something to that extent. Was probably because he wanted to follow his brother to the Premier League. But if it wasn't for Klose's contribution we may have not got as much money for him, no doubt he would have put a transfer request in.

 

As was said last season. They don’t want to hinder any of the youths development by playing the “outcast” Players.

I can see your point, but they may play one game and leave anyway! 

[Yobocop 1,443]

13 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Agree with some of the OP. I hate the practice of freezing out players as it crashes their value to the club and damages the player’s career unnecessarily. 

While with Klose it is pretty clear that he just isn’t at the level Norwich need anymore - injuries and time have caught up with him. I would put Sorensen in defence ahead of Klose at the moment. He doesn’t need to be completely frozen out - I saw he was in Switzerland while the rest of the team were training. How does this help anyone? 

Trybull is a slightly different case - he is still a Championship level midfielder and if Norwich are switching to a three man midfield, his deficiencies in pace and mobility would be mitigated. He is very good at interceptions and in the tackle (regularly coming close to the top in those metrics for the Championship). 

I can understand that Norwich are looking to sell, but why he can’t be included in the squad like Hugill and Hernandez - two other players the club would be happy to sell - is a bit of a mystery.  

We’re not running a charity 

[Hoolahoop14 124]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Klose’s contract terminated by mutual consent in the near future. It’s quite clear that he is nowhere near the level that we need, and I very much doubt any Championship side or European equivalent of a Championship side would want to pay us a fee for him given his age and injury issues.

 

I believe he’s still a fairly high earner at the club compared to other players, which may be the reason why we haven’t agreed to terminate the contract thus far, in the hope that someone will come along and take him on loan for the season and pay a chunk of his wage. Or perhaps we have offered to pay him off, but Timm is happy to sit and train by himself whilst picking up a nice wage? For what it’s worth, he’s no longer “following” the club account on Instagram.

[curious yellow 184]

Sad to hear so many harsh(imagined) criticisms of players we once liked. I wonder who will be the victim this time next year. Rupp was lucky not to be amongst the unforgiven, played well in the Championship but so did Klose and Trybull. Duda? yes forget his performances in the Euros, we know he's not good enough for our team. 

[Jimmy_Fitch 47]

I thought Klose had a pretty decent season last year at Basel and the only reason they didn't sign him is that they couldn't afford him due to the pandemic. When he last played for us he was just coming back from a horrific injury and you could tell he was nowhere near fit enough and playing against world class strikers. 

It's interesting that so many players get frozen out, especially with the values and culture Webber likes to talk about.

I like to think, once a Canary always a Canary and hope that the majority of our ex players still hold a light for the club.

[tricky974 63]

Really don't know the situation are they training with us or not? They could have wanted to train elsewhere to maybe help with a move, they are not in the plans and also with the mutual termination they could have been offered that but may have close not too.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

9 hours ago, Yobocop said:

We’re not running a charity 

Which part of my post suggests Norwich is running a charity? 

[Yellow and Green 352]

Trying to see it from Norwich's side, they don't want a big squad, where players are going to be left out of the squad every week, complaining about it and generally dragging everyone down. 

The clarity also gives an extra degree of certainty. The player and their agent have the sole focus to find another club. 

Finally, the prospect of sitting around, doing nothing for a year may encourage them to mutually agree to terminate their contract on lesser terms - in the hope that it will be easier to find a new club, like it has for Drmic and Leitner.

[DannyGirl 7]

All clubs seem to have their fair share of sick-notes and misfits (for various reasons.)

It's the name of the game.

Farke does seem to be a bit of a fuss-pot at times, and I suppose that is a good thing.

Trybul was no failure and perhaps, in healthier times, would have been snapped up by a decent Championship team by now.

Klose has pedigree and owes the club nothing. We have to accept that injury and age have made him a no-goer. Farke will know the truth of that.

Some of these players from abroad can't just be farmed off to the English lower leagues as a matter of course.

 

[Jimmy_Fitch 47]

I honestly don't think Tom Trybull would have done any worse today. Least he'd give us something to protect the back four. 

How can a 28 year old player who's be amazing for us in the past be so far out of the picture when we're this poor. 28 is often seen as a players prime as well. 

We're waisting talent like Gilmour and PLM because we have no ball winning midfielder and so they need to drop deep. 

I full expected us to lose today. But like most people, it's the lack of effort. 

Farke seemed really annoyed in his presser after the game. Appears certain players are not following his instructions, hence why there were subs at halftime. 

[curious yellow 184]

15 minutes ago, Jimmy_Fitch said:

I honestly don't think Tom Trybull would have done any worse today. Least he'd give us something to protect the back four. 

How can a 28 year old player who's be amazing for us in the past be so far out of the picture when we're this poor. 28 is often seen as a players prime as well. 

We're waisting talent like Gilmour and PLM because we have no ball winning midfielder and so they need to drop deep. 

I full expected us to lose today. But like most people, it's the lack of effort. 

Farke seemed really annoyed in his presser after the game. Appears certain players are not following his instructions, hence why there were subs at halftime. 

TT is probably on a level with Rupp, but his abilities would be much more useful in the last two games. 

[Jimmy_Fitch 47]

4 hours ago, curious yellow said:

TT is probably on a level with Rupp, but his abilities would be much more useful in the last two games. 

Yet Farke continues to play Rupp. 

To be fair on Rupp I thought he looked really good at one point last season, but then got injured and of course the championship is much lower level. 

I just can't stand heavy defeats, not just goal difference as I actually think there is something more important at this stage of the season than GD and that's confidence. The players must feel so deflated after that. 

The Premier League rot continues.