Hope Sargent isn't true.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Whether TVB or anyone else rates him has no impact on whether he is 'given a chance.'

I like to believe that if the OP was in the stadium and Sargent is playing he won't be relentlessly booing him. 

OK, replace 'giving him a chance' with 'seeing him play', and the point is still the same.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

If he only scores 5 in 32 but we finish out of the relegation places along with a reasonable defensive record, partially due to his work ethic, then I'm all up for some of that.

I have my doubts but they're literally based off his kicker ratings. If Bremen was really that malfunctioning an outfit then not even Messi's going to make them look good. So I will hold my fire for a few months and hope he gives it everything he has, as ultimately he's being given a big opportunity here to stake his claim under a coach that will give him his lead.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

Whether TVB or anyone else rates him has no impact on whether he is 'given a chance.'

I like to believe that if the OP was in the stadium and Sargent is playing he won't be relentlessly booing him. 

I have never booed a player in yellow. 

Did once call Zema Abbey a "useless c*nt" from the front row when he wasn't paying attention to the ball, but David Neilsen and most of the lower Barclay were saying pretty much the same thing at the same time. 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,273]

4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

What odds would you give on a player who scored 5 in 32 in the Bundesliga last season being able to reach double figures in the Prem next season then? 

Because I'd want 1000/1 to put a pound down. 

Yeah, sure that's a big ask. But it's not impossible, and a 10 goal plus EPL striker at a young age is worth £20 mill straight away. Which is my point. 

If he doesn't, well @ £8 million it isn't a huge risk. In any case, I feel Sargent will bring more to us than just goals. I think he'll be very effective for us in other ways. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Creedence Clearwater Couto

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

You joking? Holt scored some incredible goals in the Prem, go and watch a highlights video! 

People think this Sargent rumour has some legs then? I was thinking it was just a rumour, is this actually happening then? 

Connor Southwell seems pretty confident.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/canaries-ncfc-josh-sargent-set-to-sign-8214754

[Indy 3,300]

Again I’ll point out that we are shopping at a different level to virtual all others in this league! We don’t have massive funds, can’t pay huge wages and we’re not that attractive to players wanting to play premier league longer term!

So 20 odd million for Armstrong isn’t for us not to mention if Southampton or ANO want him he’ll be more likely to sign there, and for that money I happy not to get him.

Sargent, fits our style better, can play more positions, holds the ball up and plays a fluid game. At 21 certainly great age to develop, for less that half the price of Armstrong! No brainer.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

If we do sign him then I will hope that he at least offers more than Hugill off the bench.  

But he isn't the Pukki competition we needed. Unless the thinking is that Idah really is now breakthrough material? 

Idah seems to lack scruples to me, whilst possessing the necessary physical attributes, but open to him making me eat my words.

 

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Connor Southwell seems pretty confident.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/canaries-ncfc-josh-sargent-set-to-sign-8214754

OK, and my thread is just me saying that I hope he is wrong or that we're using the press to convince another team to accept an offer for somebody. 

[king canary 7,606]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

If we do sign him then I will hope that he at least offers more than Hugill off the bench.  

But he isn't the Pukki competition we needed. Unless the thinking is that Idah really is now breakthrough material? 

Idah seems to lack scruples to me, whilst possessing the necessary physical attributes, but open to him making me eat my words.

 

 

Lack scruples? What does his moral character have to do with anything?

[hogesar 9,672]

4 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

OK, replace 'giving him a chance' with 'seeing him play', and the point is still the same.

Agreed.

There's nothing wrong with people getting excited or the opposite about a potential signing based on videos, although you'd like to think the poster would caveat it with "but I haven't actually seen him play" for context.

Also to be fair my main problem with the OP is the weird obsession with the one-footed-ness based of a compilation reel 😂

[Fuzzar 1,702]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

If we do sign him then I will hope that he at least offers more than Hugill off the bench.  

But he isn't the Pukki competition we needed. Unless the thinking is that Idah really is now breakthrough material? 

Idah seems to lack scruples to me, whilst possessing the necessary physical attributes, but open to him making me eat my words.

 

 

I'll probably regret it, but do please elucidate.

[Canary dwarf 221]

sergeant is not a signing we should be making , we need someone to challenge and push pukki , Armstrong would be the one and we should spend some of this buendia money to get him .

[king canary 7,606]

7 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

OK, replace 'giving him a chance' with 'seeing him play', and the point is still the same.

Not for me Clive.

As others have pointed out, by that same logic we can't get excited about new signings if we've not seen them play.

I get the fact that positivity is more welcome than negativity. But as a forum to discuss all things Norwich City I think people should be able to reasonably say they don't rate a signing without being shat on. 

[hogesar 9,672]

10 minutes ago, king canary said:

Not for me Clive.

As others have pointed out, by that same logic we can't get excited about new signings if we've not seen them play.

I get the fact that positivity is more welcome than negativity. But as a forum to discuss all things Norwich City I think people should be able to reasonably say they don't rate a signing without being shat on. 

I don't see where he's been 'shat' on other than pointing out it's a little silly to base the main point of your argument on him being 'one-footed' based on 3 minutes of highlight footage. Which is then pretty demonstrably disproven by Bethnal, despite some weird fixation about 'Wroxham level defending' is showing people onto a weaker foot (didn't stop wes, hucks, redmond, + 100's of other wingers)

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

26 minutes ago, king canary said:

Lack scruples? What does his moral character have to do with anything?

That word possibly doesn't mean what I think it does then, I meant his footballing intelligence doesn't appear to come naturally, but I guess that is what Farke is good at. 

Pace, power, finishing ability, got all the attributes to have a good career in football. Hope Farke can put together the rest of the pieces.

But I'm surprised if I'm honest that with Idah in the squad we're investing in another young striker. Last time we were relegated and blamed it on having a young team which was still learning. I'm preparing myself for a similar excuse if we buy Sargent and the Greek.

Perhaps I'd envisaged us signing perhaps one (and I'd choose the Greek) but with a player who is a bit more streetwise and mature, 24/25(ish), a bit further down the road.

I find it difficult to get excited by what Sargent might look like in 3 years time if I'm honest.

And I'd go further and say that as much as our cheap German recruitment served us well when we were skint, its on the whole not been a hugely successful market for us has it? Drmic, Ralf and Duda last time in this league. No players from Germany in our best XI now.

I get it, we're shopping in Bundlesliga 1 rather than 2 now, but Zimmermann, Rupp, and Hernandez the only men left standing from Germany (not including Rashica), and all of them merely squad players? 

I'm wary of us dropping such a big sum on a relegated Bundesliga player with poor stats who can't even put together a decent highlights video. I accept that Farke and Webber may see something in him which suggests that he can mature into a quality striker, just as they do Idah. Getting him to use his left foot more to become less predictable, even if its just to turn a player, will be a large part of that.

But I also want to know where our goals are coming from NOW in order to have hope of staying in this league THIS SEASON, it isn't all about keeping the conveyor belt moving surely? And if it were, do we have to recognise that out of Emi, Lewis, Godfrey, and Maddison (+ Cantwell and Aarons), as much as Farke and his team have played a huge part in their development, only one was actually a Webber signing. 

So far no other permanent young player signed by Webber has established themselves, albeit Idah and Mumba appear to be on the cusp of that. McCallum is 21 next month and it doesn't look like he's progressed as hoped.

I'd be hugely frustrated if we dropped £10m on Sargent whilst Armstrong moved for £15m (I know, the asking price is £20m, but they have to sell this summer).

Last summer we could have had Toney for £5m up front, and ended up with Hugill for £2.5m + £2.5m after promotion. Plenty of us were crying out for Toney.

Perhaps striker is the one position where this club really needs to think about going that extra mile, pushing the boat out a little bit, taking that financial risk, At least with Armstrong you'd be very confident that he could supply the goals we needed in the Championship post-relegation.

It feels like this is the window where we need the Pukki successor. 

Pukki will be 32 by the time this season finishes. This could well be his final season as first choice striker. Possibly final season at the club before a swansong in the MLS or for the best club in Finland? 

If we get relegated this season, and Pukki goes to play for Vancouver or somebody, we're confident that either a 21 year old Idah and 22 year old Sargent will be a 25 goal Championship striker are we?

I feel like if we are relegated this season we need to be going down with that player, and it feels like a risk to me. Sunderland used to yo-yo with Phillips, and West Brom with Lee Hughes. 

Pukki showing signs of slowing. This was the window where we had the money to sign his successor, and Sargent doesn't look to be that, Armstrong would.  

Edited August 6, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

13 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I don't see where he's been 'shat' on other than pointing out it's a little silly to base the main point of your argument on him being 'one-footed' based on 3 minutes of highlight footage. Which is then pretty demonstrably disproven by Bethnal, despite some weird fixation about 'Wroxham level defending' is showing people onto a weaker foot (didn't stop wes, hucks, redmond, + 100's of other wingers)

Sargent is a winger now then is he Hogesar?

You got the data to back that up?

27 games as centre forward and 4 on the right wing is what my data source gives for last season.

28 games as a centre forward and 4 on the right wing is what I get for the season before.

Got to love this forum, a player plays less than 10 games out of position and suddenly he's capable of playing there in a stronger league. He's about as much of a right winger as Amadou was a centre back, he isn't basically.

Sargent is a striker, and in my opinion not the one we need when considering Pukki's age and signs he is slightly past his peak.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

31 minutes ago, Canary dwarf said:

sergeant is not a signing we should be making , we need someone to challenge and push pukki , Armstrong would be the one and we should spend some of this buendia money to get him .

Exactly, this is the best opportunity we have to buy the player who will push Pukki this season and succeed him next season, and we're blowing it if we sign a player in the Sargent mould.

Doesn't mean I don't think he has anything at all to offer. 

Just that we need that Pukki successor, and need to push the boat out to land it, never have a better opportunity to recruit that player and this is us blowing it. 

[hogesar 9,672]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Exactly, this is the best opportunity we have to buy the player who will push Pukki this season and succeed him next season, and we're blowing it if we sign a player in the Sargent mould.

Doesn't mean I don't think he has anything at all to offer. 

Just that we need that Pukki successor, and need to push the boat out to land it, never have a better opportunity to recruit that player and this is us blowing it. 

Or it's Webber and Farke going for the best option based upon their teams hundreds of collective hours of scouting and analysis, as opposed to a 3 minute highlight reel.

Just a possibility.

[AJ 1,221]

12 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Can't remember seeing a player as "one footed" as this for a long long time.

Seriously, just watch it, he looks like he's not got the ability to use his left foot at all, its the weirdest thing I've seen in football at this level.  

 

Are you really a Norwich fan?

 

 

Well, let me introduce you to Wesley Hoolahan...

Edited August 6, 2021 by AJ

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Or it's Webber and Farke going for the best option based upon their teams hundreds of collective hours of scouting and analysis, as opposed to a 3 minute highlight reel.

Just a possibility.

Or is it based on them setting a maximum spend of £10m on that position and finding that it takes them to number 17 on their list of targets.

Just a possibility. 

[chicken 2,624]

43 minutes ago, Indy said:

Again I’ll point out that we are shopping at a different level to virtual all others in this league! We don’t have massive funds, can’t pay huge wages and we’re not that attractive to players wanting to play premier league longer term!

So 20 odd million for Armstrong isn’t for us not to mention if Southampton or ANO want him he’ll be more likely to sign there, and for that money I happy not to get him.

Sargent, fits our style better, can play more positions, holds the ball up and plays a fluid game. At 21 certainly great age to develop, for less that half the price of Armstrong! No brainer.

In different ways.

I think we are attractive to those players who want to prove they are capable of premier league football as they know they can come to us and get games if they perform well. It does mean that we may only have them for a couple of seasons before moving on, but if that happens we cash in to reinvest - and the next player we sign won't be £2-3m but £8-10m as we've seen this summer.

As we become more established, we may well have the funds and the attraction to £15-20m players who want to prove they are more than capable of playing mid table premier league etc - and so it goes on.

Players like Armstrong that have had very strong seasons in the Championship may well appeal more to sides that are already established, and he'll believe that he has done enough to earn a move to a more established side.

You can almost see that in the paths trodden by other players. Grealish has gone from Championship, to Prem survival, to mid-table with Villa, some players do that in moves. He's now gone on to Man City for big bucks. And that is what the aspirations of players will be. Come here, prove themselves and possibly earn themselves a shot at a club challenging at the next level.

Some players will just feel they are established and proven enough to play for an established PL side.

[pete 319]

Welcome to the Teemu Van B's personal post, becomes the latest Morty clone.  

[chicken 2,624]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Or is it based on them setting a maximum spend of £10m on that position and finding that it takes them to number 17 on their list of targets.

Just a possibility. 

That doesn't really make sense does it?

I'm sure they know what sort of money they have to spend and therefore their targets are somewhat realistic to that. At least, all of the evidence suggests that at the moment.

The early inquiries and offers for Ajer and Armstrong suggest that some of their targets are an attempt to take advantage of contracts running down or a squad in transition and looking to raise funds to reshape it, or financial situations in other leagues etc. It's intelligent and it's planned.

It's not - less offer £10m for Messi and work down the list from there until someone accepts it... 

[BobLoz3 492]

13 hours ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

One of the goals he scored in this video was with his left foot!! 😂.............

Exactly what I came here to say 🤣

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

9 minutes ago, chicken said:

That doesn't really make sense does it?

I'm sure they know what sort of money they have to spend and therefore their targets are somewhat realistic to that. At least, all of the evidence suggests that at the moment.

The early inquiries and offers for Ajer and Armstrong suggest that some of their targets are an attempt to take advantage of contracts running down or a squad in transition and looking to raise funds to reshape it, or financial situations in other leagues etc. It's intelligent and it's planned.

It's not - less offer £10m for Messi and work down the list from there until someone accepts it... 

It makes more sense than offering £10m for a free agent. 

Look, maybe I need to reflect upon my expectations, they are obviously out of sync. 

Because I honestly thought we'd be investing with a view to survival, not buying rough diamonds who are going to take 6-12 months to adjust to their new level of football before making an impact.

Last time we got relegated and blamed having a really young and inexperienced team, now we're looking like signing a 19 year old and a 21 year old. The problem with going down again is that this means we have to sell again, Aarons and Cantwell won't stick around.

Is this the cycle forever? I honestly thought that this time we'd give survival another go. Clearly I need to bring my expectations in check, I will reflect on that. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

After a further research of Josh Sargent I agree with the OP that I hope the transfer doesn't happen:

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Hank shoots Skyler

[Indy 3,300]

2 hours ago, chicken said:

In different ways.

I think we are attractive to those players who want to prove they are capable of premier league football as they know they can come to us and get games if they perform well. It does mean that we may only have them for a couple of seasons before moving on, but if that happens we cash in to reinvest - and the next player we sign won't be £2-3m but £8-10m as we've seen this summer.

As we become more established, we may well have the funds and the attraction to £15-20m players who want to prove they are more than capable of playing mid table premier league etc - and so it goes on.

Players like Armstrong that have had very strong seasons in the Championship may well appeal more to sides that are already established, and he'll believe that he has done enough to earn a move to a more established side.

You can almost see that in the paths trodden by other players. Grealish has gone from Championship, to Prem survival, to mid-table with Villa, some players do that in moves. He's now gone on to Man City for big bucks. And that is what the aspirations of players will be. Come here, prove themselves and possibly earn themselves a shot at a club challenging at the next level.

Some players will just feel they are established and proven enough to play for an established PL side.

That’s exactly the point, at present we’re not established and both the players were close to signing are of that type young talented and require to develop and prove themselves.

Some on here think we should be signing the like of Ings! We’re a million miles away from competing for established strikers who guarantee to push Pukki! They are well outside our structure as it is……

[chicken 2,624]

27 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Last time we got relegated and blamed having a really young and inexperienced team, now we're looking like signing a 19 year old and a 21 year old. The problem with going down again is that this means we have to sell again, Aarons and Cantwell won't stick around.

Is this the cycle forever? I honestly thought that this time we'd give survival another go. Clearly I need to bring my expectations in check, I will reflect on that. 

So you thought we'd be signing £20m players? 4-5 of them? 

The difficulty we have is that at the start of the summer the PinkUn journo's were saying we had around £20m, Bailey of the Athletic was suggesting it could be as much as £30m. The sale of Buendia added a further £15m.

If we had £20m then the £15m from Buendia covers most of Gunn, Rashica and PLM. That could mean we are looking at 4-5 positions with £20m. It'll be interesting to see how much of the fees we pay from this point forward are up front. €10m for Tzolis is quite an outlay if we only have £20m in the bank... unless much of it isn't up front and spread over instalments.

Essentially, what we need to do, is get to the point where the general level of the squad is good enough that adding a single £15-20m player is safe enough to do. As in, we can afford to put more of our eggs in one basket. We're not there yet. Stay up and we might be.

[Essjayess 307]

This  started out with TVB posting a vid of a guy who TVB  was alluding to say he had never seen anyone so one footed before and has expanded into a topic on the credentials of Sargent as a Pukki replacement...kind of.  Begs the question...is Sargent being actually brought in as our bona fide 3rd striker? Seems to me more like he is another player who can adapt up front in any of the positions, much like Tzolis, Rashica etc..DF loves flexibility and im positive that Tzolis and Rashica can fill the 3rd spot as well as Sargent.

Look TVB...signing guys young, bringing them on etc..to sell at a profit...in case you had only just realised...IS the way we invest to survive as a football club. If you were meaning the word survival as being able to escape relegation for once, well..Webber and DF's aim was to make the team overall a stronger squad at the end of the window than at the beiginning, to hopefully give us a increased chance of staying up this time...Sargent, if he signs, is just one of a plethora of ins and outs that are happening right now and we all, as at every club, just have to wait until the season gets going to see how it all pans out.

Also, i dont think PLM is a 19 year old rough diamond..so look at the overall  squad, not just at a select few.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

Or it's Webber and Farke going for the best option based upon their teams hundreds of collective hours of scouting and analysis, as opposed to a 3 minute highlight reel.

Just a probability 

👍sorted

 

3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Or is it based on them setting a maximum spend of £10m on that position and finding that it takes them to number 17 on their list of targets.

Just a makey uppy. 

Sorted 👍😉😇

Edited August 6, 2021 by wcorkcanary