England v Scotland

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

I do feel a touch sorry for Southgate at times- took us further than we've been in a major tournament since 1990 and yet some people talk about him like he's a total moron.

There was a bit of luck involved, namely a facile qualifying group (sure, Belgium are a very good side, but Algeria are barely average and frankly, I'd reckon the Faroe Islands could nick it against Panama), then the teams faced in the KO stages were either workmanlike (Sweden) or missing their best player (Colombia), or both.

He gets too much **** because too many overrate the players.

[Lomft23 1]

Lad's did us Proud! HOLD!

[duke63 545]

32 minutes ago, king canary said:

Also Jack Grealish, who everyone was talking about as if he was ****ing Leo Messi all game, came on and did jack ****.

To be fair he did fall over rather a lot looking for free kicks but did absolutely nothing else.

[mastoola 185]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

There was a bit of luck involved, namely a facile qualifying group (sure, Belgium are a very good side, but Algeria are barely average and frankly, I'd reckon the Faroe Islands could nick it against Panama), then the teams faced in the KO stages were either workmanlike (Sweden) or missing their best player (Colombia), or both.

He gets too much **** because too many overrate the players.

I dont buy that.  7 of our squad played in the champions league final and more played in the europa league final.  the defensive tactics were wrong not the players.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

I do feel a touch sorry for Southgate at times- took us further than we've been in a major tournament since 1990 and yet some people talk about him like he's a total moron.

International football is at a low ebb. Fans put their club first naturally whereas rugby and cricket is all about producing players for the national team.

The standard is dropping as players are more concerned, naturally, about the money their club offers them rather than the kudos of playing for your country.

And the best teams in the country do not play the same way as international football, particularly as we have had a succession of defensive minded managers since 2000. Ericsson, MacLaren, Capello, Hodgson, Southgate.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

9 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

He gets too much **** because too many overrate the players.

We do overhype our players for sure, but you’d still surely put our squad of players up there with the likes of Portugal and Belgium - but short of France. It’s a squad full of top level prem players and champions league winners / finalists. And I’d prefer our current group over Spain, Germany, Netherlands, Italy.

Yet it’s the same old England. Can’t get the players to gel, no cohesion, no passion, no urgency. Teams like Italy and the Netherlands playing with far more than us at the minute. Why are we so dull?

Maybe that 2018 run was just the perfect storm we needed, we certainly won’t be getting that this tournament and I think fans will be losing it with Southgate very soon if so.  

Edited June 18, 2021 by Hank shoots Skyler

[mastoola 185]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

International football is at a low ebb. Fans put their club first naturally whereas rugby and cricket is all about producing players for the national team.

The standard is dropping as players are more concerned, naturally, about the money their club offers them rather than the kudos of playing for your country.

And the best teams in the country do not play the same way as international football, particularly as we have had a succession of defensive minded managers since 2000. Ericsson, MacLaren, Capello, Hodgson, Southgate.

England play the same formation as Norwich.

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

5 minutes ago, mastoola said:

I dont buy that.  7 of our squad played in the champions league final and more played in the europa league final.  the defensive tactics were wrong not the players.

 

And a lot of them are makeweights in those teams rather than out-and-out star players. The Premier League has a high proportion of foreign players in due to the money in it, and often they're the technically more refined players, or just better ones.

[duke63 545]

You can't get away from the fact there is very little passion about playing for England. To most of those players it appears to just be another game.

[Branston Pickle 3,709]

3 minutes ago, mastoola said:

England play the same formation as Norwich.

That’s as maybe, but you can play it quick, or as if you’re zombies: NCFC go for the former, England were the latter tonight. Utterly bereft of creativity, it was theworst game of the tournament so far by a country mile, but credit to Scotland who were spot-on. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Branston Pickle

[mastoola 185]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

And a lot of them are makeweights in those teams rather than out-and-out star players. The Premier League has a high proportion of foreign players in due to the money in it, and often they're the technically more refined players, or just better ones.

That's just so not true. There are no make weights in a champions league winning team

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

13 minutes ago, mastoola said:

 We are England with some of the best talent in the world.

Sounds good if you cross your fingers and say it quickly but do we really?

How many of those do you reckon would get a start in the French or Portuguese side, or even the German?

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

4 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

We do overhype our players for sure, but you’d still surely put our squad of players up there with the likes of Portugal and Belgium - but short of France. It’s a squad full of top level prem players and champions league winners / finalists. And I’d prefer our current group over Spain, Germany, Netherlands, Italy.

Yet it’s the same old England. Can’t get the players to gel, no cohesion, no passion, no urgency. Teams like Italy and the Netherlands playing with far more than us at the minute.

Maybe that 2018 run was just the perfect storm we needed, we certainly won’t be getting that this tournament and I think fans will be losing it with Southgate very soon if so.  

Nope, I'd put Belgium ahead of England by some distance. Italy and France are well ahead. Belgium, Spain, Germany are somewhat ahead of England. I'd put this England side somewhere nearer the Netherlands and Portugal.

[mastoola 185]

2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

That’s as maybe, but you can play it quick, or as if you’re zombies: NCFC go for the former, England were the latter tonight. Utterly bereft of creativity, it was theworst game of the tournament so far by a country mile, but credit to Scotland who were spot-on. 

Absolutely   and one of the mids is a box to box player.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

And a lot of them are makeweights in those teams rather than out-and-out star players. The Premier League has a high proportion of foreign players in due to the money in it, and often they're the technically more refined players, or just better ones.

Makeweights? Did you watch the champions league final? Mount was excellent and James and Chilwell both played out of their skin! You’d have to say Kante is the best for Chelsea but those 3 English guys were certainly right up there too, particularly in that game.

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

1 minute ago, mastoola said:

That's just so not true. There are no make weights in a champions league winning team

It's very true. Tell me which of them is a star player in the ranks.

If you don't like the term "makeweight", substitute it for "squad player".

[Midlands Yellow 4,114]

England win a header. 
 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

Before the tournament began I said Southgate had peaked. And the evidence was there tonight. Nervous Hughton-style football with the emphasis on not losing. No playmaker, no Norwich-style fluidity around the box, players afraid to take risks. His time is up. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Nope, I'd put Belgium ahead of England by some distance. Italy and France are well ahead. Belgium, Spain, Germany are somewhat ahead of England. I'd put this England side somewhere nearer the Netherlands and Portugal.

Not for me, but fair enough TGS!

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

1 minute ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Makeweights? Did you watch the champions league final? Mount was excellent and James and Chilwell both played out of their skin! You’d have to say Kante is the best for Chelsea but those 3 English guys were certainly right up there too, particularly in that game.

In one game - against another ostensibly British team so both teams will know each other far better. 

Now look at their performances throughout the season. I agree that Kante is their best player but he's generally been at a very high standard since winning the title for Leicester, but if we're looking at Chelsea's defenders then Rüdiger is probably their best one. Look at their midfielders and as you say, Kante is exceptional (he also gives Pogba greater security in that France side). The English lads have had their moments, but they're hardly carrying the team.

Then if you look at Manchester City, Kevin de Bruyne's probably their main man. I'll accept that Stones has matured to become a strong player in their defence, but Ruben Dias is the better one of the two - and a fully-fit Laporte is excellent too. I would accept Sterling is often one of their main men, and Foden has the potential to be there pretty soon but isn't yet, but Gundogan really stepped this season just gone.

It has been a consistent trend ever since I started following football for the English media in particular to overhype the Premier League or the players within it. All this is telling me is that old tradition is very much alive and well.

[mastoola 185]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

It's very true. Tell me which of them is a star player in the ranks.

If you don't like the term "makeweight", substitute it for "squad player".

James   Foden Chillwell Sterling Mount Stones Walker. Add Harry Kane who has been one of the worlds top three strikers in the last four years. these are not makeweight players in any club team in the worls.

[mastoola 185]

Just now, mastoola said:

James   Foden Chillwell Sterling Mount Stones Walker. Add Harry Kane who has been one of the worlds top three strikers in the last four years. these are not makeweight players in any club team in the world.

 

[norfolkngood 1,092]

Strange how the lesser so called teams like Scotland and Wales show far more Passion than England !

they look farm more of a Team England look so Disjointed why are they not creating chances ?

 

Southgate is Hughton MK ii looks good getting to the big stage then goes all Defensive and nervous 

 

 

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

Grant Hanley.. what a star! Great game..Scotland deserved at least a point... never seen such a "step off.. non pressing" display from the latest English stars to let down the Country.

[canarydan23 4,066]

33 minutes ago, king canary said:

I do feel a touch sorry for Southgate at times- took us further than we've been in a major tournament since 1990 and yet some people talk about him like he's a total moron.

In fairness, he only beat teams we were reasonably heavily favourites to beat. 

Against Croatia we were also favourites but lost. Twice against Belgium we were the outsiders and lost pretty easily. 

This time round he got a decidedly par result against Croatia and a proper triple bogey at home v Scotland, the bookies third worst team who lived up to that billing in their first game.

And he has no CV to back him up. He's not getting a tune out of one of the best squads in the tournament. 

Total moron? Bit harsh.

Regular moron? Bit accurate.

Shrewd media operator =/= good football coach

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,868]

14 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

It's very true. Tell me which of them is a star player in the ranks.

If you don't like the term "makeweight", substitute it for "squad player".

Mason Mount was Chelsea's Player of the Season and Reece James played more games than anyone under Tuchel. Phil Foden is now a regular starter at Man City, Harry Kane won the Premier League Golden Boot (and topped the assist chart) for the third time and John Stones is a mainstay in the Man City defence. 

This England team, man for man, is as good as any side there bar France. 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

meh... wasn't great but we'll probably still go through... all about game management rather than anything too flash. Stay in the game is all I can think.

Oh and where the hell was Sancho?

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

1 minute ago, mastoola said:

James   Foden Chillwell Sterling Mount Stones Walker. Add Harry Kane who has been one of the worlds top three strikers in the last four years. these are not makeweight players in any club team in the worls.

Kane isn't, he's talismanic. Sterling is possibly a leading light in that City team, but personally I see de Bruyne and Ruben Dias as far more important players to them than Sterling, Stones (who has come along, to be fair), and Walker. Foden could get there in time, we're running the risk of overhyping him. Mount has had his moments but face it, the star in that Chelsea side is Kante.

Chilwell didn't play due to injury, but I'd agree that a fully fit Chilwell should be ahead of Shaw. Then again, a fully-fit Robertson might edge both of them. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,805]

39 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

No we don’t, though - maybe we avoid in round 2, but we’d play whoever wins that group in the q-f (assuming they win their round two match).  

We might finish 3rd...which would be better than finishing top...even so, getting to the QF is better than going out in the last 16

[mastoola 185]

1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Mason Mount was Chelsea's Player of the Season and Reece James played more games than anyone under Tuchel. Phil Foden is now a regular starter at Man City, Harry Kane won the Premier League Golden Boot (and topped the assist chart) for the third time and John Stones is a mainstay in the Man City defence. 

This England team, man for man, is as good as any side there bar France. 

IMO only because France has Kante lol