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Refs at the Euros

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The referees at this tournament have seemed spot on with most decisions...on dives, penalties, letting the game flow. I've been impressed. Hardly noticed them because of stupid decisions given and yet any big decision, on the whole they've not been bad at all. 

Our champs and PL refs are just so poor in comparison. Last year was appalling on a few occasions. VAR also being used sparingly and showing how it should be used not left to those idiots at Stockley Park who then take 5 minutes!

I've enjoyed watching the football far more...but added to by the performance of refs! Not a sentence I expected to write.

 

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6 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Refs may be doing ok at the Euros but VAR is still an insult to the beautiful game wherever and however it is used. 

In the rest of Europe it works perfectly..... 

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And it has to be said it was the same in Russia. The problem is the application of VAR in English football alone. They could learn a hell of a lot watching this.

There was a late tackle in the Finland game that for sure would have been a red in the premier league by VAR. Nothing given, nothing looked at, game moves on.

To my eyes in the Euros they are only checking offsides on goals really?

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Yeah, not saying it was shocking or anything but the fact the Refs could just listen to their earpod for like 5-10 seconds and that's all it took for a VAR choice to be made was nuts when you (sadly..) have got used to VAR in the Prem involving the Ref running all over the pitch like a headless chicken and it taking what seems like an hour

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There is still too much cheating and time wasting for me.

Too much falling over when barely touched, and grabbing the ball as if you have a divine right to a free kick. Keepers falling on the ball when it is totally unnecessary, wasting time. Foul throws and throws and free kicks being taken from almost wherever you want, is giving an advantage to teams.

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12 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

In the rest of Europe it works perfectly..... 

Don’t know if you’re being serious or not but it certainly doesn’t 

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I think from the games I've watched so far the officiating has been fairly good, as you would expect on global stage. I do still think VAR needs some improvements, I don't feel the REF needs to be running to a monitor to make a decision. Like in Rugby, or Cricket, that is what the 3rd umpire/ref is for. They also need to apply it to EVERYTHING, so if the ball goes out and it is CLEAR AND OBVIOUS that it should have been a corner instead of a goal kick, the decision needs to be overturned by the 3rd ref

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The issue with refereeing has always been our referees. In other countries they trained better and it isn’t a total boys club with fat, incompetent morons that are just allowed to make clanger after clanger and get away with it. It’s needed root and stem reform for years and it won’t happen.

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3 minutes ago, AJ said:

I think from the games I've watched so far the officiating has been fairly good, as you would expect on global stage. I do still think VAR needs some improvements, I don't feel the REF needs to be running to a monitor to make a decision. Like in Rugby, or Cricket, that is what the 3rd umpire/ref is for. They also need to apply it to EVERYTHING, so if the ball goes out and it is CLEAR AND OBVIOUS that it should have been a corner instead of a goal kick, the decision needs to be overturned by the 3rd ref

Exactly. For "minor" decisions if the error is so obvious that it can be overturned before the goal kick is taken, then nothing is lost. If it needs two or three re-watches and the goal kick has been taken, play on, umpire's call. It's really not difficult to get right.

Likewise for offsides. If you need to draw lines on the screen to check whether they're onside or offside, you go with the decision on the pitch.

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1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

In the rest of Europe it works perfectly..... 

 

54 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Don’t know if you’re being serious or not but it certainly doesn’t 

That's what I was thinking- VAR has similar issues all over the place. And to be honest, the much criticised English refs are no worse than those on the continent.

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11 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Exactly. For "minor" decisions if the error is so obvious that it can be overturned before the goal kick is taken, then nothing is lost. If it needs two or three re-watches and the goal kick has been taken, play on, umpire's call. It's really not difficult to get right.

Likewise for offsides. If you need to draw lines on the screen to check whether they're onside or offside, you go with the decision on the pitch.

Absolutely, I think the worst thing about VAR is the lack of 'benefit of the doubt' being given the on-field officials. If they miss something obvious then yes, point it out. But if you are drawing lines then it wasn't clear and obvious.

 

I guess the problem comes from where to draw the line (quite literally in VAR's case). They decided to take the stance of if it is offside it is offside, even if it is a fingertip, so fair enough they've stuck with it and been consistent. Don't think it is within the spirit of the game to govern it like that though. As you say, with cricket you get 'umpires call' where there is a margin of error in the reviews and it reverts to the on-field decision. Football should absolutely be doing the same, otherwise it completely undermines the referee 

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I also think that if there is a really obvious offside then the linesman should just get his flag up instead of letting a player run another 20 yards and stick the ball in the net first

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Posted (edited)

Comparing the referees for an international tournament with those within a country is absurd as by definition, those in the tournament are generally the pick of the crop from individual countries.

Every country will have a Simon Hooper somewhere.

Edited by TheGunnShow

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47 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Comparing the referees for an international tournament with those within a country is absurd as by definition, those in the tournament are generally the pick of the crop from individual countries.

Every country will have a Simon Hooper somewhere.

Normally agree with you but not on this. I don't believe it's "absurd" TGS. We ought to have really professional and decent referees taking their wages in the PL, one of the best leagues in the world. We ought too, being "the home of football" have high quality referees. 

My overall observation though revolves around the main point about enjoying the games without much intrusion of officialdom (from over zealous refs, to  reacting to the histrionics of some players, to lengthy VAR delays). It's been a big plus for me. 

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Aside from the VAR issue, I think the refs have been letting a lot more contact happen and have not been giving the kind of cheap fouls that players "earn". This has made for much more flowing games and less stop and start football. I'd love to see the Prem reffed like this next season.

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Posted (edited)

 

 

3 hours ago, sonyc said:

The referees at this tournament have seemed spot on with most decisions...on dives, penalties, letting the game flow. I've been impr. Hardly noticed them because of stupid decisions given and yet any big decision, on the whole they've not been bad at all. 

Our champs and PL refs are just so poor in comparison. Last year was appalling on a few occasions. VAR also being used sparingly and showing how it should be used not left to those idiots at Stockley Park who then take 5 minutes!

I've enjoyed watching the football far more...but added to by the performance of refs! Not a sentence I expected to write.

 

Agree. Putting the English refs to shame . Consistently telling players to get up - something you might see once a month in England . Not giving free kicks for falling over . And VAR reverting to “clear and obvious” as intended . 
Much better . 
POGMOL have a lot to learn , but they are too arrogant to take any notice . 

Edited by Graham Paddons Beard
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1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Comparing the referees for an international tournament with those within a country is absurd as by definition, those in the tournament are generally the pick of the crop from individual countries.

Every country will have a Simon Hooper somewhere.

Can’t agree. For instance the Spanish ref used the other night was from Madrid so can’t ref either Madrid teams - so prob not “cream” but still better than 90% English refs . 
PS Simon Hooper would be run out of town if he refereed anywhere else . 

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One day in Europe or one day in Prem, a referee is going to grow a pair having bottled blowing up for a decision (in the name of ‘going with the attacking side’) and then, immediately will march off to the monitor and make his own decision from what he then sees, ensuring he was not making a mistake. No influence from the defending team, no Shockley park amateur night shouting in his ear. A decision from the guy that was right there - just making sure.

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The one glaringly bad decision in the tournament so far was thr penalty awarded to Denmark vs Finland...which subsequently didnt even get overturned by VAR.   ...incidentally, the ref was Anthony Taylor and the VAR operator was also English.

The standard of our referees is shameful

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16 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Can’t agree. For instance the Spanish ref used the other night was from Madrid so can’t ref either Madrid teams - so prob not “cream” but still better than 90% English refs . 
PS Simon Hooper would be run out of town if he refereed anywhere else . 

That doesn't mean the Spanish referee you refer to is not a good ref, it merely means he doesn't referee two of the top teams in that league and in all likelihood is probably well proven and tested at UEFA level too. The crux really is this: for an international tournament you will get the top referees from many countries. It stands to reason at that point that they will generally referee at a consistently more effective level.

Hooper wouldn't be run out of town, he's simply not refereed in the top flight much and isn't a UEFA referee. I'll guarantee you that Germany will have similar if you look at the kicker website and would be amazed if most countries with a UEFA official in there don't have some shakier ones in their top division or two who are not in UEFA.

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1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

The one glaringly bad decision in the tournament so far was thr penalty awarded to Denmark vs Finland...which subsequently didnt even get overturned by VAR.   ...incidentally, the ref was Anthony Taylor and the VAR operator was also English.

The standard of our referees is shameful

Sympathy pen. I half expect others would have given it too.

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I watch a lot of German football, and I can assure you it doesn't work better over there. 

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4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Refs may be doing ok at the Euros but VAR is still an insult to the beautiful game wherever and however it is used. 

I reckon VAR is ok for a tournament like this with huge tv audiences and reduced capacity stadiums. My gripe with VAR is how it kills some of the most passionate moments for supporters in the stadium. We see VAR still get it wrong and they say it evens up. But isn't that what they said about wrong decisions before VAR?

I can't get up for waiting to celebrate a goal until a decision is made miles away minutes after it happened.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:
29 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

That doesn't mean the Spanish referee you refer to is not a good ref, it merely means he doesn't referee two of the top teams in that league and in all likelihood is probably well proven and tested at UEFA level too. The crux really is this: for an international tournament you will get the top referees from many countries. It stands to reason at that point that they will generally referee at a consistently more effective level.

Hooper wouldn't be run out of town, he's simply not refereed in the top flight much and isn't a UEFA referee. I'll guarantee you that Germany will have similar if you look at the kicker website and would be amazed if most countries with a UEFA official in there don't have some shakier ones in their top division or two who are not in UEFA.

No . Hooper wouldn’t be run out of town. It was a ridiculous thing for me to say and for which I apologise unreservedly . 

And thanks for taking the (not inconsiderable) time to make the other very sensible points .

 

 

Edited by Graham Paddons Beard
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7 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

 

No . Hooper wouldn’t be run out of town. It was a ridiculous thing for me to say and for which I apologise unreservedly . 

And thanks for taking the (not inconsiderable) time to make the other very sensible points .

 

 

Nowt to apologise for. It was an honestly held/conveyed opinion which just wasn't quite accurate. We've all had them. I tend to be fairly amused at a lot of refereeing criticism, but then again, I was one myself for close to ten years and actually got to county honours at junior level, having refereed the Lancashire FA Cup finals at U14 for both boys and girls back in 2002.

Had a litany of ankle injuries, so jacked it in back in 2006. Definitely started early enough to have been able to go for it as a referee, but that made it a no-go, unfortunately.

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2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Comparing the referees for an international tournament with those within a country is absurd as by definition, those in the tournament are generally the pick of the crop from individual countries.

Every country will have a Simon Hooper somewhere.

There's only one Simon Hooper 😂

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3 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

There's only one Simon Hooper 😂

Not heard that crowd chant yet. 😉 

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Have to say, this is the way VAR should be done, great refereeing so far with good calls!

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1 minute ago, dylanisabaddog said:

There's only one Simon Hooper 😂

Not so . The Argentinian Simone Hooperez    enjoyed a (brief) spell as a ref in The Primera División until in a bizarre twist of fate ,  he was run out of town after disallowing a goal scored by an  over head kick , by Diego Maradona for Bocca  Juniors against River Plate. 

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