Transfer Rumour Thread Season 2021/22

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

16 minutes ago, GenerationA47 said:

So, really, a former Belgium international? 😉

Sorta. Makes more sense to say that when he's retired from playing / stated he no longer wishes to play international football.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

6 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

To be an ‘is’ means to be in the current. He did not play at the Euro’s and after 2 years outside of the international setup means he is quite clearly not a current Belgian international and hasn’t been for some time. /// The point being that started all of this is that his transfer fee will reflect this compared to if he was a current international - which he isn’t. No way would we have any chance if he was banging them in at the Euro’s, but let’s face it, if Watford signed him now no one would bat an eyelid or think it was the impossible made possible. It’s just because it’s little old Norwich I guess, whom are incidentally appearing to show quite some ambition this window.

Completely agree with the part after the slashes I put in.

However, as said, you can't really take away his status that he has played for Belgium and is still very much at a good age for a professional player. Indeed, this is why I said he is not a current Belgium international, so we're probably on similar ground there. Generation understandably suggested the term "former" but the problem I see with that is by definition, former is rather "definite" in terms of him not coming back to that status.

I don't see that with Origi. With a few games and goals, he might yet come back into consideration, but no-one knows.

[kirku 1,332]

33 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

I don’t hear many people on here calling Ben Gibson an England international, but I guess because he’s been called up in the past then he still is? 

Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense at all - you're attempting to compare someone (Gibson) who was once called up to the squad but never played to an international player with 29 caps. 

But then again, you did attempt to make a comparison with Origi and Lineker earlier, so I suppose in that context you're at least heading in the right direction..

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by kirku

[Grantham yellow 20]

What about  the guy from Reading, Meite, I think his name is. I know he’s playing at a lower level, but weren’t they all at one stage. Grant Holt springs to mind.

He has a presence about him. Possibly the same mould as Hugill.

[kirku 1,332]

5 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Sorta. Makes more sense to say that when he's retired from playing / stated he no longer wishes to play international football.

This

[kirku 1,332]

Just now, Grantham yellow said:

What about  the guy from Reading, Meite, I think his name is. I know he’s playing at a lower level, but weren’t they all at one stage. Grant Holt springs to mind.

He has a presence about him. Possibly the same mould as Hugill.

The Ivory Coast international? 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

So, a player whose current International status is....pending.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

The Ivory Coast international? 

Current,  Former or pending?

[Grantham yellow 20]

4 minutes ago, kirku said:

The Ivory Coast international? 

That’s the one

[kirku 1,332]

3 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Current,  Former or pending?

Current or former, pending the final decision at the official Pink Un Pedantry Federation AGM

Edited July 5, 2021 by kirku

[Alex Moss 2,165]

Just now, TheGunnShow said:

Completely agree with the part after the slashes I put in.

However, as said, you can't really take away his status that he has played for Belgium and is still very much at a good age for a professional player. Indeed, this is why I said he is not a current Belgium international, so we're probably on similar ground there. Generation understandably suggested the term "former" but the problem I see with that is by definition, former is rather "definite" in terms of him not coming back to that status.

I don't see that with Origi. With a few games and goals, he might yet come back into consideration, but no-one knows.

I agree that ‘former’ certainly sounds very final, just I would find it hard to hold a conversation with people down the pub talking about our England international keepers for instance and calling John Ruddy by that title. He has not retired, is still playing, and has not said he’ll never play for England again. But you wouldn’t hear anyone describe him today as ‘England international goalkeeper John Ruddy’. It’s too current.

Annnnyway, let’s get this back on track - the point being with him not being a current international does make it somewhat easier for clubs like your Watford’s and us etc to sign him, he’s just not at the same premium as he could be and that therefore plays into our hands, which was ultimately the whole point. We have current internationals here that made a move because they didn’t want to be a ‘bit part’ somewhere and wanted to get their career back on track playing week in week out, in particular, I’m talking Tim Krul of course. On that basis, it would be foolish to say that Origi definitely has a different mindset to Tim - he may be cut from the same sort of cloth for all I know.

On another note, it seems the general consensus from Celtic fans is that Ajer is selling himself massively short by potentially coming to Norwich - they think he’s way way better than coming to a side destined for relegation. They forget that with each decent quality player we sign, we only increase our chances of staying up, and I’m sure all of these players coming through the door are fully aware behind the scenes of how the squad should look come the first game of the season, that will be part of the selling point - and this is what gives me confidence that there’s more good players to come 👍

[Alex Moss 2,165]

14 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Current,  Former or pending?

Ha ha love it, Corkio 👍😂

(out of damn likes!)

Edited July 5, 2021 by Alex Moss

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

4 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

I agree that ‘former’ certainly sounds very final, just I would find it hard to hold a conversation with people down the pub talking about our England international keepers for instance and calling John Ruddy by that title. He has not retired, is still playing, and has not said he’ll never play for England again. But you wouldn’t hear anyone describe him today as ‘England international goalkeeper John Ruddy’. It’s too current.

Annnnyway, let’s get this back on track - the point being with him not being a current international does make it somewhat easier for clubs like your Watford’s and us etc to sign him, he’s just not at the same premium as he could be and that therefore plays into our hands, which was ultimately the whole point. We have current internationals here that made a move because they didn’t want to be a ‘bit part’ somewhere and wanted to get their career back on track playing week in week out, in particular, I’m talking Tim Krul of course. On that basis, it would be foolish to say that Origi definitely has a different mindset to Tim - he may be cut from the same sort of cloth for all I know.

On another note, it seems the general consensus from Celtic fans is that Ajer is selling himself massively short by potentially coming to Norwich - they think he’s way way better than coming to a side destined for relegation. They forget that with each decent quality player we sign, we only increase our chances of staying up, and I’m sure all of these players coming through the door are fully aware behind the scenes of how the squad should look come the first game of the season, that will be part of the selling point - and this is what gives me confidence that there’s more good players to come 👍

I did read one truly bizarre article from a supposed Celtic expert which argued at one and the same time that Ajer really could do better than Norwich City and also that he really wasn't good enough for us as a Premier League club...

[Alex Moss 2,165]

4 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I did read one truly bizarre article from a supposed Celtic expert which argued at one and the same time that Ajer really could do better than Norwich City and also that he really wasn't good enough for us as a Premier League club...

He wasn’t called McLakey was he by any chance, Purple?

[kirku 1,332]

9 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

I agree that ‘former’ certainly sounds very final, just I would find it hard to hold a conversation with people down the pub talking about our England international keepers for instance and calling John Ruddy by that title. He has not retired, is still playing, and has not said he’ll never play for England again. But you wouldn’t hear anyone describe him today as ‘England international goalkeeper John Ruddy’. It’s too current.

Although you're headed in the right direction (Lineker - Gibson - Ruddy), you're attempting to compare someone who played 45 minutes for England about a decade ago to a 29 cap international who last played for Belgium in 2019.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

Although you're headed in the right direction (Lineker - Gibson - Ruddy), you're attempting to compare someone who played 45 minutes for England about a decade ago to a 29 cap international who last played for Belgium in 2019.

He is not a current international for Belgium - those are the facts 👍

[Alex Moss 2,165]

Not sure how I feel about this... 😂

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/19421211.billy-gilmour-tipped-follow-footsteps-harry-kane-following-norwich-loan-move/

[tricky974 61]

He is not in the team at the moment due to not playing enough and as such he has been replaced by Benteke.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

2 minutes ago, tricky974 said:

He is not in the team at the moment due to not playing enough and as such he has been replaced by Benteke.

👍

[Mr Angry 1,561]

Origi's last call up was in October 2020 if that helps anyone's argument ( I can see it being used on both sides really) 😬 

[kirku 1,332]

18 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

He is not a current international for Belgium - those are the facts 👍

The only way that would be factual would be because he's not in their squad for the Euros.

You've laid out an entirely subjective argument that relies on your opinion of what constitutes "current" and "former" - and it doesn't stand up to an even basic level of scrutiny.

As someone else pointed out earlier, VvD should also be classed by you as a "former" international (the reasons are irrelevant), but you rejected that idea and in rejecting it, undermined your own position. Is Harry Winks a "former" international?

Edited July 5, 2021 by kirku

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

24 minutes ago, kirku said:

Is Harry Winks a "former" international?

Yes 😁

[chicken 2,624]

27 minutes ago, kirku said:

The only way that would be factual would be because he's not in their squad for the Euros.

You've laid out an entirely subjective argument that relies on your opinion of what constitutes "current" and "former" - and it doesn't stand up to an even basic level of scrutiny.

As someone else pointed out earlier, VvD should also be classed by you as a "former" international (the reasons are irrelevant), but you rejected that idea and in rejecting it, undermined your own position. Is Harry Winks a "former" international?

It's all about semantics FFS... 

Jesus. Just call him out of favour - which he is. Benteke is in that squad ahead of him. That says everything you need to know IMHO.

Either way, right now, having been called up two plus years ago and is failing to get ahead of another striker to be in that squad would not help his value. That is what is being said, and was being said before captain googlepants wanted to get shirty about it. And that is accurate.

Andy Carroll has played for England, very much doubt that adds to his value at the moment.

But sure, lets argue about what someone clearly means despite them using an alternative word or choice of words than you'd be happy with despite their intent being clear.

Former/out of favour/non-selected... calling him a "current" international is more than stretching the truth. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

38 minutes ago, kirku said:

The only way that would be factual would be because he's not in their squad for the Euros.

You've laid out an entirely subjective argument that relies on your opinion of what constitutes "current" and "former" - and it doesn't stand up to an even basic level of scrutiny.

As someone else pointed out earlier, VvD should also be classed by you as a "former" international (the reasons are irrelevant), but you rejected that idea and in rejecting it, undermined your own position. Is Harry Winks a "former" international?

The reasons are not irrelevant because Divock Origi is suitably fit and available for selection. VVD is not. It’s really not hard 🤦🏻‍♂️

No Harry Winks is not a current England international just as Divock Origi is not a current Belgian international.

And Ronaldo played for Real Madrid not so long back - we still calling him a Real Madrid player because he once played for them?
 

 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

12 minutes ago, chicken said:

It's all about semantics FFS... 

Jesus. Just call him out of favour - which he is. Benteke is in that squad ahead of him. That says everything you need to know IMHO.

Either way, right now, having been called up two plus years ago and is failing to get ahead of another striker to be in that squad would not help his value. That is what is being said, and was being said before captain googlepants wanted to get shirty about it. And that is accurate.

Andy Carroll has played for England, very much doubt that adds to his value at the moment.

But sure, lets argue about what someone clearly means despite them using an alternative word or choice of words than you'd be happy with despite their intent being clear.

Former/out of favour/non-selected... calling him a "current" international is more than stretching the truth. 

Thank you, Chicken - and absolutely spot on 👍

The bottom line, and the point that has clearly not gone unnoticed by yourself and I would like to think others too, is that with Origi not starting for the national squad for some time now, this does nothing to increase his market value and thus makes him a slightly more viable possibility for ‘lower’ Premier League clubs than one that’s just got 7 goals at Euro 2020. That seems like common sense to me, but hey ho!

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

6 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

If Aarons is sold then having two first team strikers might be feasible, but it is such an expensive position to buy that dropping £10m on a player that will be on the bench more than playing is a luxury for Norwich right now.

Rashica played more through the centre than on the wings for Bremen, so he is well adapted to that position and isn't really a winger.

 

Bethnal, you have seen Rashica play as a striker while I had never heard of him so I value what you say!  And I understand the arguments about financial limits and the priority to fill other positions, although that might change if we also sold Aarons. And the difficulty of persuading someone to join when they cannot be guaranteed regular starts.

That said, I have two concerns. For starters, I wonder if Rashica can play the crucial lone role Pukki does. There are different kinds of strikers, and the lone Pukki role is very demanding. Just from the highlights clip Rashica doesn’t seem that kind of striker. He looks more like a very mobile gadfly type of striker.

This may not be accurate but going by Soccerway’s team formations for some of Werder Bremen’s games last season I didn’t see one line-up where they had him as a lone striker. He was either in a front two or wide in a front three. If they had a main striker it seemed to be either Sergeant or Fullkrug.

My other concern, based on what Davitt and Freezer keep on stressing, is that Webber and Farke appear to be extremely confident that Idah will make what looks to me like a significant step up from being so far OK but not outstanding in the Championship to being a genuine Premier League player.

Yes, Webber and Farke see Idah in training etc, but there could also be an element of boosting Idah’s confidence and an element of wishful thinking.

If Rashica really can deputise for Pukki and Idah really can make the grade I would just about be OK with that. But if only one of those ‘ifs’ comes true I would be very worried and if neither ‘if’ comes to past I would be extremely worried.

Edited July 5, 2021 by PurpleCanary

[PockthorpePete 331]

I suspect we will sign another attacking player. Though that may well be more a Rashica, than a Pukki. As with others, I have yet to be convinced that Idah is up to PL standard, and with both Steiperman and Buendia gone Pukki will need someone to work with. Ideally Plachetta would be better served by a half season loan in the Championship, as would Idah. But I don't think we have the numbers to afford that, at the moment.

[birchfest 397]

5 hours ago, chicken said:

Two pundits... one of which appears to have been wheeled out for the Euro's and has such a finger on the pulse of football that he hasn't managed a team in 15 years - despite only being 68. I wouldn't use that as a basis to found any sort of view on if I'm honest. 

So you think actually the wider non Norwich supporting public and players of other teams all view us as a big club. Okie dokie then.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

1 hour ago, Mr Angry said:

Origi's last call up was in October 2020 if that helps anyone's argument ( I can see it being used on both sides really) 😬 

Didn't know whether to give that  a thankyou or a ha ha. Settled  for a ha ha.

[kirku 1,332]

1 hour ago, Alex Moss said:

No Harry Winks is not a current England international just as Divock Origi is not a current Belgian international.
 

 

And here's where your "facts" fall down, as your entirely subjective view on what constitutes "current international" is at odds with how a vast majority use that term - and that's why it's pedantry to call out someone else on the matter.

• The Telegraph reported last month that Villa are interested in signing the England international midfielder from Tottenham.
• The signing of Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg pushed Winks down the pecking order. The England international has been forced to fight for a place
• Winks is a good player, but the England international struggled for playing time last season under Jose Mourinho.
• Villa look set to rival Manchester United for Winks’ signature. The Red Devils reportedly view the England man as a potential replacement for Paul Pogba, should he leave to rejoin Juventus.

As to the wider point, about whether Origi's international caps increase his current value, I would argue that they do. I imagine that his lack of minutes for Liverpool depresses his value to a far greater extent, as does Liverpool's apparent desire to move him on. However, the number of caps he's got for a top ranked nation point to the high regard he was held in at international level (as his move to Liverpool does at club level) and that surely counts for something.

Edited July 5, 2021 by kirku