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So assuming he is fit, albeit not completely match fit, why is rupp playing in the no. 10 over dowell.

Not a shot at rupp, although I thought his best position - as per his excellent performance earlier on in the season -was where skipp and McLean are today, rightly neither of those should be or are dropped.

So with mario not impressing last game, rupp has chance of no. 10. With steepi out. But I'm asking what our thoughts are and df thought on dowell is? Is he crock? Is he not up to it? Or am I being too harsh?

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I think some are underestimating Rupp a bit. He's an energetic presence in the middle of the park, good at accelerating away from a press, defensively diligent when not in possession and likes to keep play moving when he is. Against a very solid, hardworking side like Luton it makes sense that you've got a fairly aggressive ball-retriever in the number 10 role who can move at pace. Vrancic isn't that player.

Vrancic is better in the deep, and against this sort of team, he's far better off in there. Can't break McLean and Skipp up at the moment though, they're playing too well together.

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Completely agree. I was trying to angle more at if dowell is a crock/flop.

Young player, clearly talented and has had good seasons at championship level. I just don't think he has clicked here as yet...

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1 hour ago, NeymarSmith said:

Completely agree. I was trying to angle more at if dowell is a crock/flop.

Young player, clearly talented and has had good seasons at championship level. I just don't think he has clicked here as yet...

Neither - for some reason loads of people these days seem to feel some insane urge to rush to ludicrously hasty judgements - it's far too early to tell. 

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Of the players used in the no 10 role this season I think Rupp has proved the more all round performer.He has certainly more energy than Vrancic and appears to be a very good box to box player. He formed an excellent partnership with Skipp earlier in the season and with McLean in the side these three seem to be able to switch positions with apparent ease.Dowell,unfortunately has had a couple of chances to show his ability but it just has not gone right for him.A season to forget for him I think.

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Put in a good shift, didn't really put a foot wrong and added a bit of steel against a team we knew which would probably be aggressive in their press. I still think Stieperman is the best option at this level for number 10 and its an area we need to look to spend some serious money to level up in for next season as Dowel isn't going to be the option from the get go, probably going to need much more time to develop.

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I had high hopes for Dowell and was really hyped of him, but I feel that he is lacking in workrate. Our offensive players are expected to work a lot in both ways and somehow he seems to lack that desire for required effort. I was earlier thinking that it could be just match fitness issue, but when you compare workrate of Rupp or Hernandez after getting back, it might be just more in-depth issue. 

It could be that good full pre-season could help with things, but I have big doubt if he could take step required to do it in PL. 

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3 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Neither - for some reason loads of people these days seem to feel some insane urge to rush to ludicrously hasty judgements - it's far too early to tell. 

We're 3/4s of the way through the season, at what point is it OK to try and make a judgement?

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5 hours ago, NeymarSmith said:

So assuming he is fit, albeit not completely match fit, why is rupp playing in the no. 10 over dowell.

Not a shot at rupp, although I thought his best position - as per his excellent performance earlier on in the season -was where skipp and McLean are today, rightly neither of those should be or are dropped.

So with mario not impressing last game, rupp has chance of no. 10. With steepi out. But I'm asking what our thoughts are and df thought on dowell is? Is he crock? Is he not up to it? Or am I being too harsh?

Several points here.  Rupp is playing over Dowell because Dowell has not impressed enough - yet. It is still early in his time at Norwich and he has to prove he is up to the workrate and required desire to play at the level required in a Farke team.  That may come with time as he gets fitter and more used to what is required, but until he impresses enough at all facets of his game, he is unlikely to get a start. The fact that he gets on at all as a sub shows he is involved and being given every opportunity to show what he can do, but he has not yet done enough - certainly not enough to replace someone like Rupp, who has been consistently good when given the chance in the team.

Secondly, Mario may not have been impressing you, but he has been constant figure in our winning run, maybe not shining like Cantwell and Buendia, but nevertheless a constant and quietly getting on with his job - and still with a high amount of assists this season. Today he was rested, simple as. That Rupp came in and did so well gives farke another option now and with Stiepermann waiting to get back in, the choices are good ones for Farke.

Dowell has been up against it since he arrived - trying to assimilate to Farke's methods and our way of playimg, geting injured, no pre-season, up against mature players well versed in our ways.  He has to prove he can do it, but as with other players who have come in to the squad from elsewhere, it may take him some time to get there.  We are not just a club who can give players a game just because they cost money, they have to prove themselves.

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I am afraid that trotting out the well worn excuse of 'no pre-season' doesn't wash with me at all.That was ages ago and by now he should be fit and ready to go.

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I think Rupp was there to try and match Lutons energy a bit - almost as if Farke had an idea how Luton might play. Seemed to work, and was close to getting a couple of assists actually. Despite that, I wouldn't say he's naturally a creative passer, but his willingness to run with the ball in tight areas and get into the box is welcome.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

We're 3/4s of the way through the season, at what point is it OK to try and make a judgement?

To be fair it's pretty hard for us fans to make a judgement when we've barely seen him play, which is probably what @Thirsty Lizard meant.

However you could, with credence, make a claim that Farke may have made that judgement for us for now.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

We're 3/4s of the way through the season, at what point is it OK to try and make a judgement?

You can try and make a judgement at whatever point you wish - but we've seen very little of Dowell so far - firstly because of injury - then because of another injury - and then because, understandably, he's found it very difficult to get into a team which is winning game after game and is currently 10 points clear at the top. 

People who make judgements based on little evidence routinely end up making **** of themselves. 

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Several points here.  Rupp is playing over Dowell because Dowell has not impressed enough - yet. It is still early in his time at Norwich and he has to prove he is up to the workrate and required desire to play at the level required in a Farke team.  That may come with time as he gets fitter and more used to what is required, but until he impresses enough at all facets of his game, he is unlikely to get a start. The fact that he gets on at all as a sub shows he is involved and being given every opportunity to show what he can do, but he has not yet done enough - certainly not enough to replace someone like Rupp, who has been consistently good when given the chance in the team.

Secondly, Mario may not have been impressing you, but he has been constant figure in our winning run, maybe not shining like Cantwell and Buendia, but nevertheless a constant and quietly getting on with his job - and still with a high amount of assists this season. Today he was rested, simple as. That Rupp came in and did so well gives farke another option now and with Stiepermann waiting to get back in, the choices are good ones for Farke.

Dowell has been up against it since he arrived - trying to assimilate to Farke's methods and our way of playimg, geting injured, no pre-season, up against mature players well versed in our ways.  He has to prove he can do it, but as with other players who have come in to the squad from elsewhere, it may take him some time to get there.  We are not just a club who can give players a game just because they cost money, they have to prove themselves.

Firstly Farke said he chose Rupp over Mario because of the system that Luton play and he thought he was better suited, so wasn't 'rested'

As for Dowell, he actually looked good and then got injured early doors and the subsequent complications with the break, had nothing to do with pre-season

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not see problem start Rupp over Dowell but if not give more playing time to Dowell and Onel after 3 up is joke.

I not see why need make subs after 78  min on already decided game.Ok Dowell underperform but how many games he play to do better?

so late subs in 3-0 game as 90% of starting 11 play very 3 day is hardly to be explained 

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Would prefer playing Kenny in the 10 role with Sorensen alongside Skipp. Looked absolute class again today when he came on

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I would assume Farke wanted Rupp to be able to help protect against Luton's high tempo, and it worked. Rupp is very versatile, a good all round footballer, reminds me a bit of Howson. He did well today, and certainly didn't do his chances of keeping his place any harm

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1 hour ago, Alfie54 said:

Would prefer playing Kenny in the 10 role with Sorensen alongside Skipp. Looked absolute class again today when he came on

Please explain ??? Getting carried away with pretty average stuff - Rupp would be the player I'd play if either Skipp or McLean was unavailable. Need to win games - not play out nil-all draws.

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Dowell has been one that has surprised me. He definitely has something, the potential for a moment of magic (especially if you review his highlights reel) but he’s had the injury and somehow just hasn’t clicked as yet. I imagine the decision to pick Rupp was relatively easy. DF knows exactly what he’ll get from Lukas Rupp as do the other players. Dowell seems a bit more leftfield. Probably a match winner on his day but perhaps not consistent enough at this point with his positional discipline to warrant a start. I haven’t quit on him though, it’s always folly to do that with Norwich. 10 minutes into today’s game Twitter was full of “Luton are decent” and “we’ve been 💩”. Let’s keep our powder dry and see how he develops. If he’s no good or bad for the squad he’ll get jettisoned. Ask Moritz and Josip. 

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Someone (Bailey, Freezer, Goreham) mentioned that Rupp has impressed in training for a while now, so fair play to him. Farke can't disrupt the McLean/Skipp partnership so it was interesting to see him in the number 10 role.

Dowell needs to do the same, I guess. The fact that he is getting minutes (albeit not much!) is a sign that he's doing OK and he's in Farke's thoughts. The team has been doing so well since his return from injury that he's just been unable to force his way in. 

Next season will be an interesting one, assuming we get promoted. Even though we have a number of players who can play there, that number 10 position is one of the obvious areas that we'll need to strengthen. Difficult to see him getting too much game time - especially if Stiepermann starts ahead of him before the end of the season.

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Dowell had an OK 10 minute stint yesterday. He showed he can take a good setpiece, can deliver a good cross and we know he can shoot. A poster remarked on his workrate but I think all the players understand whats required of them and Dowell would be trying. But you can't change a player's physical attributes - Dowell is just not fast or combative enough to be picked for a starting position - not for where we want to play. If you look at other squad players, Hernandez - he's pretty hard to knock off the ball, can dribble and shoot; Phacheta has speed to harass people, get to the loose balls quickly & make chances; Martin has great balance - all three I rank start ahead of Dowell.

DF has performed magic with the players - he would have his work cut out for him to convert a player who Everton wanted to dispense with and other clubs after taking a look, decided no.

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10 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

You can try and make a judgement at whatever point you wish - but we've seen very little of Dowell so far - firstly because of injury - then because of another injury - and then because, understandably, he's found it very difficult to get into a team which is winning game after game and is currently 10 points clear at the top. 

People who make judgements based on little evidence routinely end up making **** of themselves. 

I think though, as Hoegsar says, Farke is being somewhat clear about where Dowell sits in his plans right now.

In the last 6 weeks or so we've seen all of our attacking midfield 3 miss some game time due to suspension/injury/resting and on each occasion Farke has opted for a player other than Dowell to step up, despite Dowell being available. Placheta got the nod when Emi was out, Hernandez came in for Cantwell and now he's chosen Rupp when Vrancic needed a break.

Yes he's had injuries but so have those three that Farke has picked recently but they've clearly done enough in training to impress.

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Thought Rupp was excellent yesterday, written off by some when he first joined but now showing his worth. Another good pice of work by the recruitment team. 

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10 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

You can try and make a judgement at whatever point you wish - but we've seen very little of Dowell so far - firstly because of injury - then because of another injury - and then because, understandably, he's found it very difficult to get into a team which is winning game after game and is currently 10 points clear at the top. 

People who make judgements based on little evidence routinely end up making **** of themselves. 

Spot on. He was out for the best part of three months, and the fact that he missed our pre season means he probably isn't as fit as he could be anyway.

Every chance he could play his part here in the future but it’s just not been his season unfortunately. Rupp was very good again yesterday, has been all season and hopefully he can carry that on into next season too. 

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19 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

fact that he missed our pre season means he probably isn't as fit as he could be anyway.

This would be a compelling point...if he hadn't featured in every single pre season game.

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9 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Dowell has been one that has surprised me. He definitely has something, the potential for a moment of magic (especially if you review his highlights reel) but he’s had the injury and somehow just hasn’t clicked as yet. I imagine the decision to pick Rupp was relatively easy. DF knows exactly what he’ll get from Lukas Rupp as do the other players. Dowell seems a bit more leftfield. Probably a match winner on his day but perhaps not consistent enough at this point with his positional discipline to warrant a start. I haven’t quit on him though, it’s always folly to do that with Norwich. 10 minutes into today’s game Twitter was full of “Luton are decent” and “we’ve been 💩”. Let’s keep our powder dry and see how he develops. If he’s no good or bad for the squad he’ll get jettisoned. Ask Moritz and Josip. 

Precisely, that bit in bold is key. Farke's patient with those who give it a good, honest go and don't hide, regardless of the outcome. Compare his patience with Placheta and his willingness to protect him compared to tossing Nelson, Moritz, etc. out - or indeed when aiming the odd pointer at Cantwell and Buendia.

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46 minutes ago, king canary said:

This would be a compelling point...if he hadn't featured in every single pre season game.

I put that earlier, he got injured in September.

The injury was the problem not the lack of a pre season.

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